Caffine Anyone?

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I also remember reading/hearing somewhere that the caffeine in tea is also released more slowly than that of coffee..

According to everything I've read online tea does release it's caffiene more slowly. It's because another chemical called theobromine that's in tea that relaxes the body and slows caffiene's effect. Guarana's caffiene alkaloid is fat soluble (not water soluble) so it's absorbed much more slowly than water soluble versions. I don't think that theobromine would be a good idea to vape due to it's very toxic nature (it's what kills dogs when they eat too much chocolate), and guarana's lipid version wouldn't vaporize right since it's oily.
 

Satire

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According to everything I've read online tea does release it's caffiene more slowly. It's because another chemical called theobromine that's in tea that relaxes the body and slows caffiene's effect. Guarana's caffiene alkaloid is fat soluble (not water soluble) so it's absorbed much more slowly than water soluble versions. I don't think that theobromine would be a good idea to vape due to it's very toxic nature (it's what kills dogs when they eat too much chocolate), and guarana's lipid version wouldn't vaporize right since it's oily.

Young padawan, you have much to learn. Step-by-step drug extraction walkthroughs are not adequate training. Read. Ask. Verify.
I shall break this down into sections which I feel warrant individual explanations.

First and foremost, caffeine is a chemical. It is the same chemical whether it is dissolved in coffee, sprinkled on a dead goat, or shoved into your rear end (yes it is used this way for medicinal purposes as part of an enema with multiple ingredients). Caffeine is at least partly soluble in everything from the polar solvents like alcohol and water, to the non polar (for the sake of this post we will associate non-polar with fatty and oil-dissolving) petroleum ether, acetone, benzene, etc. There is not an "oily version" and a "water-soluble" version, it is one chemical with the same properties wherever it goes. (quick side note, it IS possible to make caffeine salts but only when treated with high quantities of the acids and readily decompose into caffeine when exposed to air so it is unlikely that we will be dealing with these) Also note that many alkaloids can be present in salt forms (more water-soluble) and their respective base forms (often more lipid or "oily/fat-soluble") in natural sources (caffeine is not because it is a very weak base), so you were on the right track. However, (generally speaking) the base (or "oily") form almost always has a much lower boiling point (less attraction between the molecules than the salt forms, which are polar and attract eachother) so generally they would be more suitable for vaporizing/inhaling.

Second one is Theobromine. Yes, this is toxic to dogs in large doses, but it is not to humans in the amounts present in normal foods. Saying that it is of "highly toxic nature" is quite false. It is present in relatively large amounts in chocolate (ever hear of someone dying from chocolate poisoning?), and even dogs can eat reasonable amounts of chocolate with no ill-effects. In addition, roughly 10-20% (depending on your source) of the caffiene you consume is converted to theobromine by your body, so even if you take a pure caffeine pill you will have theobromine in your body. Plus it makes you feel good so if it is there who cares? :p

Back to caffeine, I believe the reason for your confusion on the "different types" is from anecdotal evidence on the stimulant effects of different caffeinated plant sources. Theobromine is actually known to synergize(sp?) with caffeine, boosting the stimulant effects. However, in teas there IS a chemical known as theanine, which has a pseudo-tranquilizer effect, and is believed to be the reason for the lack of "jitters" from tea. However, the caffeine is still the same chemical and any difference in effect is due to the presence of other substances, not from a "different version" of the caffeine molecule. Thus, if properly isolated (100% caffeine, which is should be if you are attempting to vap it), the plant source is irrelevant.

Back to vapping caffeine, the boiling point of caffeine is actually slightly lower than that of PG (the main liquid component of most e-liquids), so vaporizing shouldn't be a problem, though whether one can vap enough to get any effects in a short period of time (caffeine has a much stronger stimulant effect when ingested in a short period of time as opposed to slowly absorbing over an extended period) is still a mystery. Also a warning to whomever attempts this: I found this on a MSDS for caffeine.
INHALATION:
CAFFEINE:
ACUTE EXPOSURE- May irritate the nose and throat and cause coughing and
chest discomfort. If sufficient quantities are absorbed, may cause
poisoning as detailed in acute ingestion. No deaths were reported in
rats exposed to 55 ppm for 4 hours.
CHRONIC EXPOSURE- If sufficient quantities are absorbed, may cause poisoning
as detailed in chronic ingestion.


Good luck, if anyone tries please post the results, would be much appreciated.
 

Ripley

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Just wanted to give everyone an update, as I do plan on experimenting with this.

I purchased 99.7% caffeine Anhydrous which should suffice, 1/20th tsp is equal to roughly 150mg .. but since I don't have any measuring instruments that small.. I bought a precision scale .. which is what's currently delaying the process.

So.. now to figure out how much I vape on the way to work .. versus how much coffee I drink during my 45min commute, versus how much I can cram into a 5ml sqeeze bottle .. should be interesting!
 

nqhqhz

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I have tried this and found the following:

Tangiers F-line hookah tobacco contains caffeine, which, when inhaled, does seem to produce an effect. Hookah tobacco reaches about 150 C.

Caffeine doesn't like to dissolve in PG or glycerol at room temperature. When it does, I can only get about 10mg (eyeballed) into 5ml (wild guess) without it becoming a slimy, sludgy mess. Obvious thing to do is dissolve in water first, but separating would be difficult without some knowledge of chemistry.

Vaporised caffeine in propyle is very bitter even at 2mg/ml. Gag reflex bitter. Nice aftertaste though.

Other xanthines do a bit better. I have some theophylline which did dissolve clearly and I have not discovered a saturation point. I have not attempted to vaporise it as there is no precedent and I am unwilling to take the risk.
 

Satire

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Diluting with water wont affect the vaporizing ability of the liquid so if this works as a good solvent it may be a workable project still, alcohol should be next in line to try as a caffeine solvent (in small amounts, perhaps 30-40% pg, 50-60% water, and 10% alcohol, that should make it much more suitable as a caffeine solvent), but I can't think of much else I would attempt to vap (like chloroform).
 

Ripley

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Ok, scale is in and experiments are completed.

Components:
99.7% Pure Caffeine Anhydrous ($11.50/100g +s/h at purebulk.com)
Base e-liquid (40% PG, 40% VG, 10% Everclear (ethanol alcohol))

I managed to get close to 200mg/ml before hitting the saturation point. The vape is amazing, clouds of fog. I didn't experience any bitterness, but it does have an interesting aftertaste.

Here is the show-stopper. At room temperature, the above mixture is SOLID. But apply a little heat (5ml vial and 6 seconds in the microwave) and it's a crystal clear vapable e-liquid.

This means warming up your atomizer prior to use, and cleaning it with warm no-caffeine e-liquid afterwards. Just too much trouble for me. I guess I'm stuck with my morning coffee and spiking my other drinks with my newly acquired caffeine powder.

SO, unless someone has an idea for an alternate, vapable solvent, this experiment is done. I'm open to suggestions, and have PLENTY of product to experiment with.
 

Jaaxx

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Solubility of caffeine in water per wikipedia -
22 mg·mL−1 (25 °C)
180 mg·mL−1 (80 °C)
670 mg·mL−1 (100 °C)

So at boiling point that's 670mg per mL or 33mg per drop.

At room temp (25C) 1.1mg per drop.
Given a around 30-50mg per average beverage thats between 1-2+mL you would need to vape to get a reasonable "fix."

"I'm the party pooper!" - Kindergarden Cop
 

strell

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Did everyone drop this? I'm wondering how these work:
ThinkGeek :: SurgeStix - Inhalable Caffeine Stix
Even by Jaaxx's reasoning I think it's still a possibility with something like a 510. I am testing with some 200mg caffeine tablets by dissolving them in water at the appropriate temperature and straining with a coffee filter the way you would extract codeine from Tylenol 3. I'm still working on how I want to actuallly mix it for vaping, but I will follow up with any results.
 

jadedflower

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It is pretty difficult to get a caffeine intoxication the LD50 (experimental Letal Doses when more than 50% of subjects will die) is 150-200mg/kg wich means you need 200mg per kilogram to intoxicate a person if that person's weight is lets say 60kg (around 120lb) you'll need 1,200mg of caffeine to get an intoxication (1.2kg of pure caffeine).

Where did u get that info from? I drink a ton of Full Throttle energy drinks and they claim to have 3,000mg of caffinated substances (caffiene, guarana, carnitine, and taurine)
Makes me think i should stop drinking them actually 8-o
 

J_Data

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Solubility of caffeine in water per wikipedia -
22 mg·mL−1 (25 °C)
180 mg·mL−1 (80 °C)
670 mg·mL−1 (100 °C)

So at boiling point that's 670mg per mL or 33mg per drop.

At room temp (25C) 1.1mg per drop.
Given a around 30-50mg per average beverage thats between 1-2+mL you would need to vape to get a reasonable "fix."

"I'm the party pooper!" - Kindergarden Cop


It may not be a bad thing that it isnt a super charged caffeine experience. as a chain vaper, id like to vape this all day. since caf. is a smilar alkaloid to nicotine, I think of it as a potentail way to create a 0nic liquid that may still have a throat hit.
 
I don't know about vaping caffine, but you could shower with it:

ThinkGeek :: Shower Shock Caffeinated Soap

:)

I have always wanted to try a bar, but I am not sure if I would like wearing the peppermint smell on me all day.

I've been tempted to order some of that myself, but don't know how well caffeine would soak into the skin in a shower, I picture having to lather and then let it sit on you for a good 5-10 minutes before rinsing it off. Plus another thing that keeps me from buying it is that I shower at night, bad time to inject my body with a bunch of caffeine.
 

xhorntail

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Did everyone drop this? I'm wondering how these work:
ThinkGeek :: SurgeStix - Inhalable Caffeine Stix
Even by Jaaxx's reasoning I think it's still a possibility with something like a 510. I am testing with some 200mg caffeine tablets by dissolving them in water at the appropriate temperature and straining with a coffee filter the way you would extract codeine from Tylenol 3. I'm still working on how I want to actuallly mix it for vaping, but I will follow up with any results.


SurgeStix were a ThinkGeek April Fool's joke. Just click the order button ;)
 
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