California has fallen

[zoiDman]

Ok, let's get real, we're not likely to get anything done outside of the courts. Even if HR 2058 passes, it will be a temporary and incomplete reprieve. We need well funded legal recourse. How do we get people involved in that, how do we keep momentum going?

The Legal funding has to come from OEM's/Retailers. Individual contributions will help. But the Lions Share is going to have to come from OEM's/Retailers.

Were not going to be able to do Legal Actions after Legal Action. Choice of what to Fight is going to be Very Important. Fighting Everything is not an Option

I can't even get 50% of vapers here to agree that vaping actually IS relatively safe.

Why do you do that? You Know it Isn't True.

 

[Lessifer]

The Legal funding has to come from OEM's/Retailers. Individual contributions will help. But the Lions Share is going to have to come from OEM's/Retailers.

Were not going to be able to do Legal Actions after Legal Action. Choice of what to Fight is going to be Very Important. Fighting Everything is not an Option



Why do you do that? You Know it Isn't True.

It's a slight exaggeration, at 50%, but it IS true. We can't agree how relatively safe vaping is. The point of the FSPTCA is to protect public health, if vaping isn't harmful, it shouldn't be regulated under FSPTCA. That is actually the crux of the issue.

A good number of vapers believe vaping is less harmful than smoking, but not relatively harmless enough for it to be done around others. A similar group believes that children DO need to be protected from it. If it's just another tobacco product that people need to be protected from, well, the FDA is doing their job correctly.

 

[wiredlove]

I can't even get 50% of vapers here to agree that vaping actually IS relatively safe.

I'd go so far as to say it's beneficial to those around you, if your PG levels are sufficiently high enough to kill those nasty airborne viruses.

 

[zoiDman]

It's a slight exaggeration, at 50%, but it IS true. We can't agree how relatively safe vaping is. The point of the FSPTCA is to protect public health, if vaping isn't harmful, it shouldn't be regulated under FSPTCA. That is actually the crux of the issue.

A good number of vapers believe vaping is less harmful than smoking, but not relatively harmless enough for it to be done around others. A similar group believes that children DO need to be protected from it. If it's just another tobacco product that people need to be protected from, well, the FDA is doing their job correctly.

What is so Earth Shattering that there Isn't Agreement on how safe Vaping is?

Are all e-liquids made from the Same Chemical Compounds? At the Same Percetages?
Do all Vapers Vape the Same Amount of e-Liquids per Day using the Same Wire Temperatures?
Are there Many 5, 10, 15 or 20 Year Studies for all this?

And when was Public Health more Important than Profits and Agenda Based Political Grandstanding?

 

[Lessifer]

Are all e-liquids made from the Same Chemical Compounds? At the Same Percetages?
Do all Vapers Vape the Same Amount of e-Liquids per Day using the Same Wire Temperatures?
Are there Many 5, 10, 15 or 20 Year Studies for all this?

This is exactly what the FDA is planning to provide for us, in a convenient blister pack, from the most trusted names in tobacco.

 

[Vaslovik]

California has fallen eh? Gosh, weren't they one of the states that signed Master Settlement Agreements with BT and then spent the money before they had it, and it evaporated out of BT's pockets because of vaping so they couldn't pay the states that signed Master Settlement Agreements? There seems to be a connection there.

 

[zoiDman]

This is exactly what the FDA is planning to provide for us, in a convenient blister pack, from the most trusted names in tobacco.

If that is the Case, then 99% of all this is Moot.

 

[Lessifer]

If that is the Case, then 99% of all this is Moot.

Vapor products are being held to a higher standard than any other non pharmaceutical consumer good, with no evidence that any of those possible differences in constitution matters in regards to health.

 

[zoiDman]

California has fallen eh? Gosh, weren't they one of the states that signed Master Settlement Agreements with BT and then spent the money before they had it, and it evaporated out of BT's pockets because of vaping so they couldn't pay the states that signed Master Settlement Agreements? There seems to be a connection there.

Hummm? Isn't the MSA amounts Based on the Number of Cigarettes sold in a State?

If so, then Raising the Age to buy them to 21 seems Kinda Bass Ackwards. Seems like you would Want to sell those Smokes to as Many People as Possible.

 

[zoiDman]

Vapor products are being held to a higher standard than any other non pharmaceutical consumer good, with no evidence that any of those possible differences in constitution matters in regards to health.

Yep... They sure are.

But both You and I knew this Already.

 

[DrMA]

It's always been about "reasonable compromise" with our side, I hope people are understanding what compromise from one side of the argument gets you.

This is where compromise has gotten us:
FDA went way too far on e-cigarettes: Opposing view

Everyone happy now?

 

[DrMA]

I am Glad you Edited you Post. Because your Original Post was Incorrect. Perhaps now you can Clarify who the "they" are who Refused to Oppose CA SBX2-7.

Show me 1 advocacy org who did oppose any other bill than 2-5

 

[Lessifer]

This is where compromise has gotten us:
FDA went way too far on e-cigarettes: Opposing view

Everyone happy now?

You know, I'm not going to comment on the responsible regulation in that article, my views on the subject are already known.

 

[zoiDman]

Show me 1 advocacy org who did oppose any other bill than 2-5

SFATA and CASAA opposed them.

 

[Lessifer]

SFATA and CASAA opposed them.

Actually, the CASAA CTA only mentioned 2-5

 

[zoiDman]

Actually, the CASAA CTA only mentioned 2-5

Not say'n that CASAA's CTA Process could not use some Improvement. But I believe that Both CASAA and SFATA made it Clear their Opposition to All of the CA Legislation when they held a Press Conference on March 29th on the Steps of the Capitol.

I also seem to Recall watching SFATA Organize and then give Committee Testimony during the Special Session Hearings at the End of last Year.

People may not Like what CASAA or SFATA Does. Or the Way they do it. And that is Fine. But to say that they are Throwing People Under a Bus is Capricious.

And Akin to having someone Offer to wash your car for Free. And then .....ing that they Didn't clean the rims Good Enough.

 

[Lessifer]

Not say'n that CASAA's CTA Process could not use some Improvement. But I believe that Both CASAA and SFATA made it Clear their Opposition to All of the CA Legislation when they held a Press Conference on March 29th on the Steps of the Capitol.

I also seem to Recall watching SFATA Organize and then give Committee Testimony during the Special Session Hearings at the End of last Year.

People may not Like what CASAA or SFATA Does. Or the Way they do it. And that is Fine. But to say that they are Throwing People Under a Bus is Capricious.

And Akin to having someone Offer to wash your car for Free. And then .....ing that they Didn't clean the rims Good Enough.

Hey now, I didn't say they threw anyone under the bus, I was just pointing out that the CTA only referenced sbx2-5.

I support them, even if I don't agree with all of their decisions. I have some very foundational differences in opinion with them, but I still promote their activities, along with others.

 

[zoiDman]

Hey now, I didn't say they threw anyone under the bus, I was just pointing out that the CTA only referenced sbx2-5.

I support them, even if I don't agree with all of their decisions. I have some very foundational differences in opinion with them, but I still promote their activities, along with others.

Sorry Les. Didn't mean to make it sound like I though you were in the Bus Throwing Crowd.

It's been a Long, Extremely Bad Day. My e-Mail Inbox is Exploding. And I've got about 7 Ongoing Conversations going on.

 

[Lessifer]

Sorry Les. Didn't mean to make it sound like I though you were in the Bus Throwing Crowd.

It's been a Long, Extremely Bad Day. My e-Mail Inbox is Exploding. And I've got about 7 Ongoing Conversations going on.

It's ok, I know how you feel, and I didn't REALLY take it that way. It's been an especially bad week for us CaliVapers. I just did the HR 2058 CTA again, and died a little inside when it displayed Boxer and Feinstein as the recipients... Not that I don't know who my representatives are, it's just the screaming at a brick wall gets tiresome.

 

[Katya]

Maybe this will cheer you guys up?




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