California Prop 56 - Hidden Vape Tax

[Haktuspit]

I was at first surprised no one has posted about this but it's actually been really hard to even find an article talking about Prop 56 that even mentions the vape tax. So far this is the best I can come up with and all it mentions is that "Taxes on other tobacco products, including vaping products, would also increase."

Not Blowing Smoke has said that this is about a 70% tax on vapor products.

Tobacco companies drop nearly $17 million into anti-tax campaign

Time to rally the voters.

 

[Robino1]

Bump

 

[Lessifer]

I've heard about it but hadn't posted anything because like you, I couldn't find anything concrete about just what was in the proposition. I assume we'll find out closer to November.

 

[VNeil]

Nothing more disgusting than a billionaire spending millions to ensure poor people pay exorbitant taxes

 

[zoiDman]

I'm Not Sure I would call it a Hidden Tax? In that e-Cigarettes are Clearly Referenced.

---

SECTION 2. Statement of Purpose


The purpose of this act is to increase the tax on tobacco and other tobacco
products, including electronic cigarettes, in order to:

.
.
.

(d) Provide funds to support prevention programs aimed at discouraging


individuals from using cigarettes and other tobacco products, including
electronic cigarettes.

---

Where the Vagueness occurs is How will an "Equivalent Tax" be calculated.


(b) The board shall adopt regulations providing for the implementation


of an equivalent tax on electronic cigarettes as that term is defined in

subdivision (c) of Section 30121, and the methods for collection of the tax.

Such regulations shall include imposition of an equivalent tax on any device

intended to be used to deliver aerosolized or vaporized nicotine to the

person inhaling from the device when sold separately or as a package; any

component, part, or accessory of such a device that is used during the

operation of the device, whether sold separately or as a package with such

device; and any liquid or substance containing nicotine, whether sold

separately or as a package with any device that would allow it to be


inhaled. Such regulations may include/ but are not limited to/ defining who


is a distributor of electronic cigarettes pursuant to Section 30011 and the


licensing requirements of any such person.


http://www.oag.ca.gov/system/files/initiatives/pdfs/15-0081 (Tobacco Tax V3).pdf?

---

 

[zoiDman]

BTW - Here is Philip Morris / RJ Reynolds funded website for Vote No on Prop 56.

Vote No on Prop 56 | Stop the Special Interest Tax Grab

 

[oplholik]

I'm Not Sure I would call it a Hidden Tax? In that e-Cigarettes are Clearly Referenced.

---

SECTION 2. Statement of Purpose


The purpose of this act is to increase the tax on tobacco and other tobacco
products, including electronic cigarettes, in order to:

.
.
.

(d) Provide funds to support prevention programs aimed at discouraging


individuals from using cigarettes and other tobacco products, including
electronic cigarettes.

---

Where the Vagueness occurs is How will an "Equivalent Tax" be calculated.


(b) The board shall adopt regulations providing for the implementation


of an equivalent tax on electronic cigarettes as that term is defined in

subdivision (c) of Section 30121, and the methods for collection of the tax.

Such regulations shall include imposition of an equivalent tax on any device

intended to be used to deliver aerosolized or vaporized nicotine to the

person inhaling from the device when sold separately or as a package; any

component, part, or accessory of such a device that is used during the

operation of the device, whether sold separately or as a package with such

device; and any liquid or substance containing nicotine, whether sold

separately or as a package with any device that would allow it to be


inhaled. Such regulations may include/ but are not limited to/ defining who


is a distributor of electronic cigarettes pursuant to Section 30011 and the


licensing requirements of any such person.


http://www.oag.ca.gov/system/files/initiatives/pdfs/15-0081 (Tobacco Tax V3).pdf?

---

Highlighted part should be interesting.

 

[zoiDman]

Highlighted part should be interesting.

Just My Personal Experience.

But when a Law say's "May Include", it Does.

Unless it Doesn't fit in well with a Powerful ($$$) Special Interest Group. Or a Big Corporate Entity.

 

[oplholik]

We probably won't see any list, so we can avoid that vendor. Just have to stay away from any with anything to do with ecigs.

 

[RabbiXX]

This is an interesting paragraph. Your device is only an e-cigarette when its combined with a nicotine purchase:

"Electronic cigarettes" means any device or delivery system sold in combination with nicotine which can be used to deliver to a person nicotine in aerosolized or vaporized form, including, but not limited to, an ecigarette; e-cigar, e-pipe, vape pen ore-hookah. Electronic cigarettes include any component, part or accessory of such a device that is used during the operation of the device when sold in combination with any liquid or substance containing nicotine. Electronic cigarettes also include any liquid or substance containing nicotine, whether sold separately or sold in combination with any device that could be used to deliver to a person nicotine in aerosolized or vaporized form. Electronic cigarettes do not include any device not sold in combination with any liquid or substance containing nicotine, or any battery, battery charger, carrying case or other accessory not used in the operation of the device if sold separately. Electronic cigarettes shall not include any product that has been approved by the United States Food and Drug Administration for sale as a tobacco cessation product or for other therapeutic purposes where that product is marketed and sold solely for such approved use. As used in this subdivision nicotine does not include any food products as that term is defined pursuant to section 6359.

 

[zoiDman]

This is an interesting paragraph. Your device is only an e-cigarette when its combined with a nicotine purchase:

"Electronic cigarettes" means any device or delivery system sold in combination with nicotine which can be used to deliver to a person nicotine in aerosolized or vaporized form, including, but not limited to, an ecigarette; e-cigar, e-pipe, vape pen ore-hookah. Electronic cigarettes include any component, part or accessory of such a device that is used during the operation of the device when sold in combination with any liquid or substance containing nicotine. Electronic cigarettes also include any liquid or substance containing nicotine, whether sold separately or sold in combination with any device that could be used to deliver to a person nicotine in aerosolized or vaporized form. Electronic cigarettes do not include any device not sold in combination with any liquid or substance containing nicotine, or any battery, battery charger, carrying case or other accessory not used in the operation of the device if sold separately. Electronic cigarettes shall not include any product that has been approved by the United States Food and Drug Administration for sale as a tobacco cessation product or for other therapeutic purposes where that product is marketed and sold solely for such approved use. As used in this subdivision nicotine does not include any food products as that term is defined pursuant to section 6359.

Hardware always seems to be where there is Ambiguities.

Whereas CA seems to be using the FDA's approach to what is a "Tobacco Product". From Section 30121...

(b) "Tobacco products" includes, but is not limited to, all forms


of cigars, smoking tobacco, chmving tobacco, snuff, and any other


articles or products made of, or containing at least 50 percent, tobacco a

product containing~ made~ or derived from tobacco or nicotine that is

intended for human consumption whether smoked~ heated~ chewed~

absorbed~ dissolved~ inhaled~ snorted~ sniffed~ or ingested by any other

means~ including~ but not limited to~ cigars~ little cigars~ chewing tobacco~

pipe tobacco~ or snuff, but does not include cigarettes. Tobacco products

shall also include electronic cigarettes. Tobacco products shall not include·


any product that has been approved by the United States Food and Drug


Administration for sale as a tobacco cessation product or for other


therapeutic purposes where that product is marketed and sold solely for


such approved use. Tobacco products does not include any food products as


that term is defined pursuant to section 6359:

http://www.oag.ca.gov/system/files/initiatives/pdfs/15-0081 (Tobacco Tax V3).pdf?

---

Just my Opinion. But the Tax battle ground in CA will be over e-Liquids that contain Nicotine. And not over Hardware.

Because there is much Legal "Wiggle Room" for Hardware. And Not Much, if any, for e-Liquids that contain Nicotine.

 

[Haktuspit]

That would be nice if hardware wasn't taxed. I still don't want to pay 70% on my juice though.

 

[trying]

Probably not taxing devices so as not to offend the Mary J market

 

[Bill Godshall]

Since Reynolds and Altria ads opposing Prop 56 will say whatever those company's focus groups find are the most effective arguments to make against the tax proposal, I suspect that Reynolds and Altria may run television ads urging voters to reject Prop 56 specifically because it would impose an unfair and massive tax on vapor products.

Nothing like defeating a cigarette tax hike by criticizing the vapor tax that was included along with it.

 

[zoiDman]

Since Reynolds and Altria ads opposing Prop 56 will say whatever those company's focus groups find are the most effective arguments to make against the tax proposal, I suspect that Reynolds and Altria may run television ads urging voters to reject Prop 56 specifically because it would impose an unfair and massive tax on vapor products.

Nothing like defeating a cigarette tax hike by criticizing the vapor tax that was included along with it.

"In One Hand Bread, the Other a Stone."

 

[Lessifer]

So, I vape, and my wife smokes. She is fully aware of the health risks of smoking, and is fully aware of all vaping has to offer, she still smokes. She doesn't pay for cigarettes, I do, she doesn't work. She also suffers from mental health problems. I pay state income tax and sales tax and for a few years I paid property tax. I pay over $14,000 a year in insurance premiums, my employer pays $11,000 on top of that. In addition I pay copays for all medical services and prescriptions. My wife has no discernible smoking related health issues, and if I'm being honest, she will likely pass long before any appear even if she continues smoking. We are not wealthy by any account.

How exactly does raising the cigarette tax make any sense considering my situation?

 

[VNeil]

So, I vape, and my wife smokes. She is fully aware of the health risks of smoking, and is fully aware of all vaping has to offer, she still smokes. She doesn't pay for cigarettes, I do, she doesn't work. She also suffers from mental health problems. I pay state income tax and sales tax and for a few years I paid property tax. I pay over $14,000 a year in insurance premiums, my employer pays $11,000 on top of that. In addition I pay copays for all medical services and prescriptions. My wife has no discernible smoking related health issues, and if I'm being honest, she will likely pass long before any appear even if she continues smoking. We are not wealthy by any account.

How exactly does raising the cigarette tax make any sense considering my situation?

Because they can. And you (collectively) won't vote them out for doing so.

 

[Lessifer]

Because they can. And you (collectively) won't vote them out for doing so.

well, yeah, but I was thinking more of any kind of justification for raising the cigarette tax. A tax predominantly paid by lower income people, that doesn't go towards the the budget area it supposedly is meant to support.

 

[zoiDman]

...

How exactly does raising the cigarette tax make any sense considering my situation?

Why does it have to Make Sense?

Just tell the Public something they want to Hear and push for Taxes in area's where there is the Least Political Blowback.

 

[VNeil]

well, yeah, but I was thinking more of any kind of justification for raising the cigarette tax. A tax predominantly paid by lower income people, that doesn't go towards the the budget area it supposedly is meant to support.

Those predominantly poor people are paying over $32 billion in tobacco taxes each year and you're asking this now?