People get shot in the states all the time, on purpose and by accident, by adults, by kids, and you guys won't even sit down and talk about gun laws. So I highly doubt one exploding ecig will result in anything bad happening.
California teen injured by exploding e-cigarette
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They can only get what info they get from the police. Sometimes it's just a bulletin.
Not directed to you but I can imagine that a reporter would not want to walk into the ER or a person's room at the hospital, while that person had just suffered a traumatic event in which they were injured, and start asking "pertinent questions" while the person is in the burn unit. I mean, really.
Sometimes its appropriate to take the focus off how things affect "me" and put the focus on the person(s) that things are happening to.
Maybe they were sold a bad unit, or bad batteries, or who knows.......we don't.
Some of the really discourteous "attitude" is in the very first comment under that news article, where the newspaper is called "scumbags!"
I guess some people don't know how news gets in and put out. Sometimes it just arrives as an AP wire.......you don't get to go out and ask questions right away. The facts are: somebody was vaping and what they were vaping on blew up. That's all they know. RIGHT NOW.
If somebody turned on a burner on their stove and it blew up, would the reporters be called *scumbags* because they reported that a burner blew up and the person standing over it was hospitalized and further details are in the works?
Where I live, people's homes burn down, and my friends, who are all with the fire department here, aren't able to tell me WHY the house burned down. It requires some investigation.......but it still is NEWS. And print worthy.
When somebody gets hurt, most people's first reaction upon hearing it is a feeling of concern for the injured person.
Not calling them idiots, scumbags. I don't think "well my STOOOOPID neighbor burned her house down because she likes candles and probably fell asleep....what an IDIOT!" My 1st reaction is that I want her to be okay.
We have to deal with reality. NOT every person who buys a PV is going to "attend battery university". They should, but they won't. So let's start talking about what is, instead of what should be. I'm a realist.
The other night I drove behind someone who had a light out, and their blinkers didn't work. We don't have inspections here. I walked around the walmart parking lot the other day looking at bald tires. smooth as glass, and I thought to my self: What if I have to put my brakes on, quickly, on a rainy day, and that person is behind me???? Yeah, careless irresponsible people aren't going away anytime soon.
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http://www.nydailynews.com/life-sty...7-000-u-s-kids-yearly-study-article-1.1592703
Cause and effect -
the consequences of fooling around with 0.05 ohms or loaded guns may be less obvious than stepping off a skyscraper ( falling past the second floor you can still mutter 'so far so good' ), but they're often drastic.. .
Stay safe
They can only get what info they get from the police. Sometimes it's just a bulletin.
Not directed to you but I can imagine that a reporter would not want to walk into the ER or a person's room at the hospital, while that person had just suffered a traumatic event in which they were injured, and start asking "pertinent questions" while the person is in the burn unit. I mean, really.
Sometimes its appropriate to take the focus off how things affect "me" and put the focus on the person(s) that things are happening to.
Maybe they were sold a bad unit, or bad batteries, or who knows.......we don't.
Some of the really discourteous "attitude" is in the very first comment under that news article, where the newspaper is called "scumbags!"
I guess some people don't know how news gets in and put out. Sometimes it just arrives as an AP wire.......you don't get to go out and ask questions right away. The facts are: somebody was vaping and what they were vaping on blew up. That's all they know. RIGHT NOW.
If somebody turned on a burner on their stove and it blew up, would the reporters be called *scumbags* because they reported that a burner blew up and the person standing over it was hospitalized and further details are in the works?
Where I live, people's homes burn down, and my friends, who are all with the fire department here, aren't able to tell me WHY the house burned down. It requires some investigation.......but it still is NEWS. And print worthy.
When somebody gets hurt, most people's first reaction upon hearing it is a feeling of concern for the injured person.
My 1st reaction is that I want her to be okay.
We have to deal with reality. NOT every person who buys a PV is going to "attend battery university". They should, but they won't. So let's start talking about what is, instead of what should be. I'm a realist.
The other night I drove behind someone who had a light out, and their blinkers didn't work. We don't have inspections here. I walked around the walmart parking lot the other day looking at bald tires. smooth as glass, and I thought to my self: What if I have to put my brakes on, quickly, on a rainy day, and that person is behind me???? Yeah, careless irresponsible people aren't going away anytime soon.
Agreed, and it's a product of the time we live in now, but, I'm old enough to remember a time when a journalist would wait to put out a story until they had all of the pertinent information. Now, they may not realize what info would be pertinent, but if the point of the piece were to inform the public of a possible hazard, more than "an e-cigarette" is needed.
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Heh in such a small country as ours, we even have to import some of our sensationalistic news. Headlines like "Two people shot, police officer injured!" - *click link* -- Oh... In Australia or somewhere...
Maybe they were sold a bad unit, or bad batteries, or who knows.......we don't.
Some of the really discourteous "attitude" is in the very first comment under that news article, where the newspaper is called "scumbags!"
I guess some people don't know how news gets in and put out. Sometimes it just arrives as an AP wire.......you don't get to go out and ask questions right away. The facts are: somebody was vaping and what they were vaping on blew up. That's all they know. RIGHT NOW.
If somebody turned on a burner on their stove and it blew up, would the reporters be called *scumbags* because they reported that a burner blew up and the person standing over it was hospitalized and further details are in the works?
Where I live, people's homes burn down, and my friends, who are all with the fire department here, aren't able to tell me WHY the house burned down. It requires some investigation.......but it still is NEWS. And print worthy.
When somebody gets hurt, most people's first reaction upon hearing it is a feeling of concern for the injured person.
My 1st reaction is that I want her to be okay.
We have to deal with reality. NOT every person who buys a PV is going to "attend battery university". They should, but they won't. So let's start talking about what is, instead of what should be. I'm a realist.
The other night I drove behind someone who had a light out, and their blinkers didn't work. We don't have inspections here. I walked around the walmart parking lot the other day looking at bald tires. smooth as glass, and I thought to my self: What if I have to put my brakes on, quickly, on a rainy day, and that person is behind me???? Yeah, careless irresponsible people aren't going away anytime soon.
Racehorse, certainly I did not start this thread to berate the individual involved. Certainly anybody getting hurt is a cause for concern and some amount of sympathy.
However, I (and, by the looks of the posts in this thread, many of us) find it frustrating the media jumps so quickly to report on it, with no real facts. Color me slightly paranoid, but I think it is being done to discredit vaping further.... the mass media has biases.
I was curious as to how much death and destruction smoking causes, other than the typical health-related issues....a quick Google search shows a study done in 2000 (slightly dated, and I didn't dig into this any further):
"Smoking is the leading cause of residential or total fire death in all eight countries with available statistics. Smoking is a leading cause of fires in many more countries. Cigarettes cause numerous fire disasters. Cigarette lights cause an estimated 100,000 U.S. and one million global, child-playing fires per year. Cigarette lights fire injuries likely rival U.S., and possibly global, cigarette fire injury numbers. Smoking causes an estimated 30% of U. S. and 10% of global fire death burdens. Smoking's estimated U.S. and global fire costs were $6.95 (sensitivity range $5.34-22.8) and $27.2 (sensitivity range $8.2-89.2) billion, respectively, in 1998 U. S. dollars."
According to a previous post, which others have pointed out is dated, there have been 25 confirmed fires caused by e-cigs. Yet, lit cigarettes and/or the lighters used to light them cause 100,000 US fires per year and accounts for 30% of the total fire-related deaths (as of 2000). There is a massive difference between the two, even if the fires from e-cigs have tripled since that report, we're nowhere near the damage caused by cigarettes.
This is a fact you will never see reported on the AP wire.
Broken link here (remove the space): http: //www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10938207
It could be Partly that.
Or it could be the Age Old Motive of the Media to just "Sell Print".
[OFFTOPIC]
Let me ask you a Question. If Lorillard/Blu was a Major Advertiser for a given media outlet, do you believe that the Tone of Many e-Cigarette/e-Liquid articles might be Different?
[/OFFTOPIC]
Guns injure more than 7,000 U.S. kids yearly: study - NY Daily News
Cause and effect -
the consequences of fooling around with 0.05 ohms or loaded guns may be less obvious than stepping off a skyscraper ( falling past the second floor you can still mutter 'so far so good' ), but they're often drastic.. .
Stay safe
Knife-related injuries treated in United States emergency departmen... - PubMed - NCBI
the are consequences to fooling around with about anything.
While we're at it, lets ban water too:
A few months ago a child died and the news reported the cause of death was nic poisoning. One of the members here was persistant and it finally came to light that the cause of death would not, and could not, be confirmed because NY law apparently allows that information to be kept confidential. Never the less the story is used to put a bad light on e-cigs. (I doubt the cuase of death was nic. I have my own ideas about what probably happened.) So now there are reports of e-cigs causing injuries. These incidents will be investigated if the people injured went to a hospital for treatment. Since incidents like this are reletively rare it's worth reporting in some detail what caused the acccident so the rest of us can avoid that mistake. Will those diligent reporters ever get round to reporting the useful part of the story? May be these e-cig injury stories disappear aftere their propaganda value has passed.
I can all but guarantee that the useful part of the story will never be reported.
There are many reasons for that, none of which have to do with the concept of a news media designed to properly inform the public.
That is because 1) good news isn't news and, 2) you have to get somebody to put the information in front of them.
That's why lobby groups and PR firms get paid by their clients.
The ecig industry can have a lobby group any time they want. They can have the best PR teams (take a look at the background of some people on the NJOY team...heck, they had people thinking Walmart was the "underdog"
) If the vendors in this industry get on the same page, and pay for it. That's what TW did when they were fighting over in the UK. They hired some good resources.That produces results, rather than sob stories about how you can't afford $200 to test one of your eliquids.
As long as people who use ecigs keep linking them to smoking, comparing them to smoking, don't expect other people out there to perceive there is a huge difference. Perception is everything.
The "image problem" never got addressed properly in the beginning.
That's what a good PR team does, and you can only hope that companies like NJOY, who understand all about that, will and can do the heavy lifting for the rest of the vaping industry.
This is why I support industry trade associations, and I said this over 2 years ago. You pool your resources in order to do the things you need to do. Instead, everybody seemed to want to be a long ranger. Short term goals (making money) perhaps eclipsed a better long term goal for the industry. Now, a lot of time and money will be spent going in reverse. Or hopefully, NJOY and TW and others like them will ride in on their white horses.
There's actually a huge difference between lobbying and advocacy, esp. when you want to influence specific legislation and those making the laws.
Seen this happen to many other industries. Penny wise, pound foolish stuff.
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Man... If we Only had like 15,000 or so People who all came to the Same Place everyday and had access to Positive Studies/Reports/Articles/Testimonials about e-Cigarettes.
And then if like 10% of those 15,000 people would send these Positive Studies/Reports/Articles/Testimonials about e-Cigarettes to their Local Media Outlets.
Wow... That would be Cool.
But who am I Fooling? Where are we going to Find 15,000 Vapers who come to the Same Place everyday? And who have access to Positive Studies/Reports/Articles/Testimonials about e-Cigarettes?
And then the Big One. Would actually would be Willing to take 5 Minutes out of their Busy Day to send a Positive Studies/Reports/Articles/Testimonials about e-Cigarettes to someone like a Media Outlet. Or a State/Federal Rep.
Never Mind.
I couldn't agree more, and I too am growing increasingly frustrated that the industry (e.g. vendors), on the whole, seem to be avoiding breaking out the cash for heavy-hitting PR firms. We are fortunate to have some really good voices on our side (e.g. Greg Conley), but you're completely on target... nothing beats a good, solid PR firm to manage the media and policy makers.
Although I certainly appreciate NJOY's stance and assistance, I'm not 100% convinced that their motives are always helpful to us. Although they are now dabbling in open systems (selling eliquid), their primary business model is still prefilled cartomizers / closed systems. It seems that open systems are the ones constantly under attack, both in the media and by policy makers (e.g. calls to poison control centers for nic poisoning, GxP practices for eliquid manufacture, mods blowing up).
We need PR for open systems as well.... I guess we must hope that NJOY's foray into open systems means that they take the business seriously enough to fight for it.
Spamming legislators, legislative assistants and news reporters is not the only (nor the most efficacious) thing that needs to be done.
And certainly, calling news reporters "scumbags" in public comments, denigrating everyone and every org that disagrees with one is no way to make friends and influence people. I hear Dale Carnegie had a good book out about that.......whistles.....sighs..........
Not directed toward anyone in particular, but these are questions that need some thought:
What relationship does your vaping club have? How about the individual vaper? Have any officials been invited to any events? Have any of you offered to HELP with information and answer their questions (other than spamming them with an email?). Do you take time out to thank them for doing certain things, even when it has nothing to do with vaping?
When their daughter wins a local horse or barrel racing show, do you send a congrats? How about when their kid wins the Science Fair? Do you know about what committees your legis are on, what civic orgs they belong to, and a little about them in general---what they care about as people?
Have you asked for a meeting with your legis assistant and set up an appt.?
Relationships are built. If you want somebody to do something for you, it might help if you think about what might make them WANT to help you. (Other than ultimatums about not getting your vote. Because that is a tired and worn move, and think about how YOU feel when all you get from people are threats......)
Have you written an Op Ed article in your local paper?
Have you invited any legislators to tour the facilities of ejuice makers or U.S. PV manufacturers in your area?
Have you arranged an invitation or meeting with your legislator or legislative assistant, perhaps to a vaping convention or event?
What is the vendor(s) that you shop with and give your money to doing? Are they doing any of the above things..... and have they joined a trade org to show they stand together with others in their industry to pool resources so they can move forward as a team?
Have you written a grant or tried to raise funds to conduct a survey or informational in your community about what the man in the street thinks or knows about vaping in your community? I did that in advance of starting a community garden.......you have to see what people think, invite them to an information session, and also include them in the process and elicit their ideas.
The more respect you show others, the more respect you will receive from them.
Am I doing these things? Yes, but for a different advocacy. I work to help dog rescue and wildlife orgs and that is pretty much my cause, and I can tell you we used many of the above things. We had few if any animal protections laws in AR 14 years ago, and progress is little by little, but you have to establish a relationship with the prosecuting attorneys etc. to get things done in your town.
Just spamming email and studies to them would not have accomplished that. As a matter of fact, where I live, you'd run the risk of being considered one of the *crazies* from the internet.
It's a people to people thing. I did write a brief, and sincere letter to Dr. Hamburg because I knew about HER efforts in harm reduction with the needle exchange program.....something I admire and support........and before asking her for something I let her know that I also knew something about HER interests and passion, and about how hard it was for her to do what she did within an administration that was very much against her initiatives, years ago back when she was trying to accomplish that .
Unfortunately, she is stepping down and will no longer be the Commissioner of Food and Drugs.
I would suggest learning a little bit about the new Acting Commish, and see if you can establish some kind of relationship with him or his assistants. Reaching out to people as people, instead of name-calling and anger, does tend to have a better outcome. Even if you don't agree.
Agreed.
Sending Info to News Outlets and State/Federal Reps on the Grassroots Level is Not the Most Efficient method of Influencing Policy.
But when the Alternative is Do Nothing for most people, then even a Inefficient Method doesn't look all that Bad.
I think it would be Great to see Some Collective Involvement by OEM's/Retailers. And it is something that has been Talked about here on the ECF for Many Years. I just haven't seen that Train leave the station yet. Or even Passengers getting Onboard.
I'm just not sure at this point Who or What is going to Step Forward and Try and Make a Difference. People like CASAA and SFATA have worked Tirelessly on our behalf. But they are Sorely in need of Members who would be Willing to Donate the Same amount of Money to them as a Member spends on a 30ml bottle of e-Liquid.
It just seems like a Shame that we have such a Large Number of Active Members here on the ECF. But we Can't seem to do Much with them.
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BTW - I Couldn't Agree with you More about the Name Calling and the Over the Top Hype that a Few Members here are using to Describe Policy Makers.
I know their Hearts are in the Right Place. And I know that they are Passionate about e-Cigarette use. But it Isn't helping us in our Fight.
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