Calling all Genisis pros!

[LucidAce]

I am one of the dozens (hundreds?) of vapers who is stepping into the genisis rba word for the first time thanks to the new inexpensive devices coming from China. I picked up the Griffin/DuD/ChiD from Mountain Oak Vapors and actually had pretty decent luck getting it up and running with the supplies materials on the first day. It definitely took some fiddling and trial and error, but I got it working. In subsequent days, however, I have encountered significant difficulties when trying out some different mesh/wire combos and techniques. Notably, I've been trying to use 400 woven mesh with 34awg kanthal for the past 3-4 days and can't get it to stay working for more than an hour before a new hotspot or short shows and up and every time I adjust one thing another problem comes by and before you know it, pop goes the coil. If I didn't still have a working coil/wick combo sitting here ready to put back in the device, my DuD likely would've gone through a window by now

So, I'm petitioning the diehard, longtime gensis makers/users/modders to help me and the rest of the rookies out by maybe telling us how you go about setting things up the first time. I understand that even people who have been doing this for a while still encounter occasional issues getting a new wick and coil setup and that there will always be tuning and adjusting, but I think it would be enormously helpful if some of you could answer questions such as: How do you oxidize/season/roll your wick? What type of wire do you use? Do you "heat treat" your wire before wrapping? Do you wrap the coil while on the device or separately and then install? Do you usually have some small shorts and hot spots on the first wrap? If so, how do you adjust them without creating new problems? And, related to those last questions is something I'm really curious about, what process do you follow for breaking in a new coil/wick? Run at a voltage much lower than normal for an extended period of time? If so, how long? I've noticed that I can have like a 2.3ohm coil working at like 3v and nothing looks bad, and I'll do that for a while but then when I try to bring the voltage up I'll have new hot spots and bright hot shorts I didn't have/see before.

Anyway, this turned into a much longer post than I intended and no need to answer each question individually; any advice would be warmly welcomed. Thanks!

 

[spraintz]

Welcome to the wonderful world of trying to get a SS mesh wick properly oxidized!!!

There is a fine line when oxidizing a wick....needs to be enough to where the coil won't short against mesh........too much and the "oxidized layer" on the mesh becomes kinda brittle and prone to being easily disturbed by the coil rubbing against it or even a hot burning coil sorta burning through to the conductive steel again.

How do we find this happy medium you may ask. That's hard answer easily as there are tons of different methods, ways, procedures, thoughts, magic....etc that many times it just takes trying them all until you get one that works right and works for you.

I will say that with simply more practice it gets better but I will try to elaborate on some things that I have found in my time that have helped:

I'm sure, like myself and many, you have watched some youtube videos of these guys oxidizing a wick real quick and just throwing on a coil and bing boom bang they fire up this near perfect glowing coil, give it a couple of adjustments and they are off to the races. Then you think, man that's simple and you try it......aaaaaand (fart noise) no go. sound about right?

First off these guys have done hundreds maybe thousands and have gotten really good at it........but how?

Like I said at the start, it first comes down to getting the wick oxidized just right. From my experience it is best to get yer wick measured and rolled up nice and tight and to the diameter that you want/need. Then you wanna hit it with a torch or some other flame. The idea here is to get the wick hot enough for the metal to react with the air and build a coating of oxidation that will sorta encase the stainless steel in a non-conductive layer. How do we know it's good? Also a hard question but here's what I do: I will lightly heat up the wick on one side until I see it start to change color, then do the other side. The wick will go form SS silver, to kinda a blue-ish, then start getting to a dark gold or brown-ish. I keep hitting the torching as evenly as possible stopping while seeing these different color changes. Once it gets to that dark kinda brown I know I'm pretty much there. If you get the SS super red glowing hot then the surface will turn an ashy black, when this happens you enter the area of a possible over-oxidized wick that has to be treated much more delicately and can short out on ya.

So, my best performing wicks have been about 3 or so light torchings getting the surface slowly built up to that dark brown color. Then, to add another protective layer and a touch of rigidity to the wick, I will put a few drops of juice on the wick and light it on fire and let it burn out. This will sorta leave a burned juice residue on the wick that will help keep in from shorting (this also happens during wick/coil break-in and will start performing even better). I do the "juice fire" 2 maybe 3 times.

Lets say you try all this stuff and yer starting to get fed up with it and just wanna vape. This cotton wrapped SS wick method will shield the coil from the wick while wrapping and you can usually have just about any level of oxidized wick up and running so easily that you will laugh
Mesh/Cotton hybrid wick Bluegrasslover's method - YouTube

That method is really easy, helps wicking, and to me tastes pretty great but it does have it's potential drawbacks. The cotton must be wet at all times. If running the cotton method you will not be able to do a "dry-burn" to check yer coils. Not really too bad of a deal as with the cotton in there you really don't have to worry about shorts and don't necessarily need to dry burn anyways. If you do happen to run to dry tho, it has a chance of burning the cotton and giving a bad taste, be aware of yer juice level all the time tho and you can keep this from happening.


So, hope this makes some sense and hope you can get it figured out. It is definitely worth it.

 

[LucidAce]

Haha, thanks spraintz; I've appreciated reading your posts in the DuD threads and others. I've been curious about the potential for over-oxidization, but haven't seen it addressed too many times. I have tended to just torch the bejesus out of the wick a couple times; sometimes quenching sometimes not, but I like the idea of taking a bit more time and actually watching what changes are taking place with the mesh.

I haven't tried the cotton method yet as I haven't had any lose cotton around and couldn't be bothered to pick any up specifically for this purpose especially since, well, the stubborn part of me doesn't want to "cheat" like that considering the whole grand idea behind steel mesh. I have tried the rolling paper method, and while the seems to work to get a coil wrapped without shorts, I don't think I entirely buy the idea of that burned paper leaving a carbon insulator between the coil and wick...call me skeptical I guess. It "worked" once for me but other times I started getting shorts popping up after the paper was burned.

I'm ok with, and was expecting, plenty of trial and error and "practice makes perfect-ish"; I've had my eye on these rebuidlables for months now and have been watching and reading like a fiend trying to prepare for getting going. I think I watched all of igetcha69's genesis videos like 3 or 4 times haha; he being one of the guys who wraps things up in a minute and all seems well.

Do you follow any particular "break-in" program? Right now I've finally got a stable coil of 34g on 400 woven mesh running at 3v, but I'm afraid to turn it up, because in the past that's when more problems started cropping up. Is it possible that burning things in, so to speak, at this low voltage will make it easier to go up later or am I just prolonging the appearance of the inevitable?

 

[spraintz]

When the wick is oxidized just right I can typically go up to desire voltage pretty quickly and safely (without shorting)

If it is really touchy and has a lil bit of shorting yet still works then yes, I would say stay at a lower voltage for 2+ml of juice and then slowly work up so that the coil and wick can get some of the "juice coating" to build up between them. The only scary part is it's hard to when you can start to power up and how fats to do it with hitting that potential "coil-popping" short. If the wick's oxidized surface is too far gone you might not ever be able to get it up to the desired voltage tho.


Keep working on oxidizing the wick just enogh. I know nobody really taks about it but I have read other threads that describe your same situation where the user state "...I oxidizes the ever-lovin-crap outta this thing and it still shorts?!?!?!...." Turns out so was I This is what lead me to try and oxidize a lil more sensitively than just "goin to town" on it.........and now I have 4 atomizers all going super strong and solid without that sudden short...

 

[LucidAce]

I really started to sift through my memory of genesis threads/videos after reading through Raidy's original thread (yes the whole thread) where he introduced the Genisis atty and seeing his wicks and those of his European buddies who had them at that time; many of them definitely seemed to have more of that brownish look you described and you could still see that it was mesh rather than it looking like a stick of coal.

I just ordered a big roll of 32g kanthal today (I got the 34 thinking I'd need it to get to the higher resistance I wanted, but I can see now I can get many more coils, and probably should get many more coils, in the same space I was getting 5/6 before using the 32), but I had better order some more mesh soon too so I can get some more practice.

 

[spraintz]

lol, yep. Those pics kinda tipped me off as well

Funny I have been on 34g for the longest time and also just ordered a roll of 32........you tryin to copy me or something?!?!?!....stalker jk

 

[LucidAce]

lol, yep. Those pics kinda tipped me off as well

Funny I have been on 34g for the longest time and also just ordered a roll of 32........you tryin to copy me or something?!?!?!....stalker jk

Haha. Well, my addiction forced me to order some sort of "big batter mod" and my finances dictated the price range, so I bought the "NEW Varitube X" from iVape a while back, knowing that it was PWM mod and what that entailed. So I figured I'd want an atty with a resistance at least in the low to mid 2's, and I initially thought that'd mean I'd need 34g wire; now I can see that's not necessary, and that 34 seems to be much more fragile and prone to popping than the 32?

 

[been there]

Thanks Lucidace for starting this thread I'm having the same problem on my griffin and was thinking the same thing about oxidizing the crap out of it , now I know and by the way I'm really impressed with the griffin I didn't expect the quailty with the price being what it is .

 

[LucidAce]

Thanks Lucidace for starting this thread I'm having the same problem on my griffin and was thinking the same thing about oxidizing the crap out of it , now I know and by the way I'm really impressed with the griffin I didn't expect the quailty with the price being what it is .

NP, been there. And thanks again to spraintz for coming to help us out and hopefully we'll see some more pros bring their experiences to the table as well.

 

[frequentj]

Hey, LucidAce! The way I do it, I like to torch my mesh when it's unrolled because the times I've oxidized a rolled one, I've found that by the time you heat it enough so that the core is oxidized, you've heated the outside so much that it's sort of brittle. So, I like to use the 'jack frost' method of heating the unrolled mesh. If you don't quench, the mesh stays nice and flexible. Then, I roll it up and heat and quench it once. When you quench hot metal, you make it stiffen up, so heating and quenching once will stiffen up your wick and help it hold its shape. Then I put a generous layer of my unflavored, 0 nic pg/vg base (any juice is fine, tho) and burn it off with a lighter. I do that twice and that gives my wick a nice black sheen to it. I also heat my wire before I wrap my coil. Not only does it make the wire easier to work with, but it takes some of that nasty taste that wire can have. The rolling paper method is really useful if you're having a hard time with shorts, as is wiggling your coils around (you are wanting to move it off of whatever spot is shorting it out), and spinning the wick so the folded edge is pointing away from the positive post.

 

[LucidAce]

Hey, LucidAce! The way I do it, I like to torch my mesh when it's unrolled because the times I've oxidized a rolled one, I've found that by the time you heat it enough so that the core is oxidized, you've heated the outside so much that it's sort of brittle. So, I like to use the 'jack frost' method of heating the unrolled mesh. If you don't quench, the mesh stays nice and flexible. Then, I roll it up and heat and quench it once. When you quench hot metal, you make it stiffen up, so heating and quenching once will stiffen up your wick and help it hold its shape. Then I put a generous layer of my unflavored, 0 nic pg/vg base (any juice is fine, tho) and burn it off with a lighter. I do that twice and that gives my wick a nice black sheen to it. I also heat my wire before I wrap my coil. Not only does it make the wire easier to work with, but it takes some of that nasty taste that wire can have. The rolling paper method is really useful if you're having a hard time with shorts, as is wiggling your coils around (you are wanting to move it off of whatever spot is shorting it out), and spinning the wick so the folded edge is pointing away from the positive post.

Thanks, frequentj. I haven't yet tried that "jack frost" method but I know it has many devotees, including a bunch of people who basically only vape genisis atomizers. I think I might give that a shot the next wick I make, because it also coincides with that spraintz was saying about not torching the **%# out of the mesh but rather turning it blue-ish and then brownish from oxidization. Apparently what I've been doing (roll, heat thrice and either quench or no quenching), isn't really working for me, because I still haven't gotten this 400 mesh and 34g wire combo to work after like 4 days of tweaking and re-wrapping and re-seasoning. It's like, as soon as I push enough current through the wire a new short shows up...

 

[Uma]

You've received great tips to get you going. I'm not a pro, but I know what works for me so far, and what the others said is basically what also works for me. Getting the machine oils and whatnot off the mesh and wire both will help your journey tremendously. You can boil the mesh for 15 minutes, changing out the water every 5, or you can take a torch or stove top burner to it, doesn't matter. Just get that mesh oxidized or de-energized or de-oiled, whatever it is that we do. Good luck to ya!

 

[LucidAce]

You've received great tips to get you going. I'm not a pro, but I know what works for me so far, and what the others said is basically what also works for me. Getting the machine oils and whatnot off the mesh and wire both will help your journey tremendously. You can boil the mesh for 15 minutes, changing out the water every 5, or you can take a torch or stove top burner to it, doesn't matter. Just get that mesh oxidized or de-energized or de-oiled, whatever it is that we do. Good luck to ya!

Thanks, Uma! I appreciate the tips and advice from anybody who has experience with these devices. I know that it's never going to be plug and play; I was expecting that. I'm just hoping to receive input from a whole bunch of experienced users so I can sort of take on some "best practices" by osmosis to smooth out the initial learning curve, haha. Thanks again!

 

[spraintz]

The cool thing about that JackFrost method is that you you can see the nice and even color change in the mesh as you do it.

I have great....and I mean great results doing the unrolled mesh torch, roll tight, one more light torching and drop juice drops on it while hot as my "quenching" the a couple of juice burns.

Just for grins I re-did my BliSS this way tonight with a 5/6 wrap of 32g using this coil method: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ost-given-up-genesis-tanks-until-i-tried.html, fired coil with no wick=1.4ohms.....slid in wick=dead on 1.4 ohms. No short whatsoever, and perfect glowing coils.

Woohoo!!

 

[LucidAce]

Yeah, I'm sold. I'll be doing the JackFrost method on the next wick I made. I'm still trying to make this current one work, and it seems like it's close, but the resistance also just jumped up from 2.2 to 2.6...I can't help but think that I was shorting even when I didn't think I was and hopefully now I'm not. I just dripped some "dirty liquid", as emonty says, on the coil to try to do away with a hot spot and it seems to have worked. Those hot coils really build up junk when you drip a flavor-packed juice on them.

I've looked at that "free coiling" method, and it is intriguing, but I don't have tools around me right now. I guess if it really works quite quickly like that it's worth it, especially at first when I'm having plenty of issues, but involving so many extra things just seems...like a hassle? (I know, I know. I'm the one griping about not getting this coil and wick to work for days, ha.)

 

[LucidAce]

BTW, spraintz, did you get your AC9 yet?

 

[tattoocloud]

Recently got the ChiD myself - had problems getting a coil to last and must have went through five or six of the buggers, I didn't have any rolling papers so I grabbed a piece of an un-bleached no name coffee filter, wrapped a piece around the wick that comes with the chiD so that it just overlaps, wrapped a 6 wind coil of 32g kenthal on that (reads 2ohm on my vmax), dripped some juice on it to get it wet and have been vaping on it for two days with no problems at all

 

[studiovap]

Welcome to the wonderful world of trying to get a SS mesh wick properly oxidized!!!

There is a fine line when oxidizing a wick....needs to be enough to where the coil won't short against mesh........too much and the "oxidized layer" on the mesh becomes kinda brittle and prone to being easily disturbed by the coil rubbing against it or even a hot burning coil sorta burning through to the conductive steel again.

How do we find this happy medium you may ask. That's hard answer easily as there are tons of different methods, ways, procedures, thoughts, magic....etc that many times it just takes trying them all until you get one that works right and works for you.

I will say that with simply more practice it gets better but I will try to elaborate on some things that I have found in my time that have helped:

I'm sure, like myself and many, you have watched some youtube videos of these guys oxidizing a wick real quick and just throwing on a coil and bing boom bang they fire up this near perfect glowing coil, give it a couple of adjustments and they are off to the races. Then you think, man that's simple and you try it......aaaaaand (fart noise) no go. sound about right?

First off these guys have done hundreds maybe thousands and have gotten really good at it........but how?

Like I said at the start, it first comes down to getting the wick oxidized just right. From my experience it is best to get yer wick measured and rolled up nice and tight and to the diameter that you want/need. Then you wanna hit it with a torch or some other flame. The idea here is to get the wick hot enough for the metal to react with the air and build a coating of oxidation that will sorta encase the stainless steel in a non-conductive layer. How do we know it's good? Also a hard question but here's what I do: I will lightly heat up the wick on one side until I see it start to change color, then do the other side. The wick will go form SS silver, to kinda a blue-ish, then start getting to a dark gold or brown-ish. I keep hitting the torching as evenly as possible stopping while seeing these different color changes. Once it gets to that dark kinda brown I know I'm pretty much there. If you get the SS super red glowing hot then the surface will turn an ashy black, when this happens you enter the area of a possible over-oxidized wick that has to be treated much more delicately and can short out on ya.

So, my best performing wicks have been about 3 or so light torchings getting the surface slowly built up to that dark brown color. Then, to add another protective layer and a touch of rigidity to the wick, I will put a few drops of juice on the wick and light it on fire and let it burn out. This will sorta leave a burned juice residue on the wick that will help keep in from shorting (this also happens during wick/coil break-in and will start performing even better). I do the "juice fire" 2 maybe 3 times.

.


So, hope this makes some sense and hope you can get it figured out. It is definitely worth it.

This is the best mesh oxidization guide I've read yet, after well over forty posts all saying "Try it this way" and then leaving out what I later feel is (at least to me) a crucial detail, like what colour glow they get the mesh up to during torching.
It seems that unless you get every aspect spot on then it's no dice.
The only thing that could make your contribution more epic would be a YouTube upload from you as you talk us through your torching technique and show close ups of the colur change on the surface of the mesh.
The devil is in the details with mesh preparation, and all other advice on genesis setup is moot unless you get your wick right.
I know it's a big ask to do a video, but you alone could be responsible for the true success of the genesis revolution, I kid you not

 

[TechJ]

The method I've use with good results is to roll my wick tight then oxidize. It dosent have to be oxidized in the middle. The only real places you have to worry about are the outside surface. This surface is the only one to make contact with the coil and body. Once I have my wick to size and oxidized I do a final heating to completely dry it and set it aside.
Next I use a drill bit blank that fits my wick hole near perfectly. ( anything round that fits well will do. ) I take a few pieces of 32ga kanthal about 3-4". I then twist them till I have a nice tight, uniform twist. I use my drill blank in my wick hole to coil my wire. Remove the blank after terminating my coil end. I then check my coil resistance ( I use my provari ) if you don't have an built in resistance checker you will need to use a multi meter on each post prior to attaching your atty to your device. Once you have the desired resistance trim the excess wire from the terminals. I then fire my device at the lowest setting observing the coil ( no wick installed yet). It should glow uniformly. This also helps to pre burn the coil removing any manufacturing oils. Once I am satisfied with my coil I then carefully install my wick. Lightly twisting it as I slide it through the coil and wick hole. Once I've worked my wick gently into the tank I trim the excess off the top insuring it will not contact the top.
( it is important to have a dry wick at this step)
I dry burn my coil at this point checking for hot spots. Sometimes I will readjust it for uniform spacing. I usually use a wooden toothpick. I do this several times adjusting my voltage a little higher with each step. As I approach my desired voltage I make sure my dry burn is in very short bursts. Just enough to make my coil glow.
Once in satisfied I add juice, verify wicking , replace my cap. Take a few pulls to get some juice gunk buildup, then blissfully vape away.

Provari mini with 18490 extention
Z-Atty-Pro
Juice: Mad Murdocks Radiator Pluid
20mg uncut

Running a 2.1 ohm twisted coil 32ga kanthal A1
325 inner wick core 400 outer wick wrap
Running 11-15watts depending on mood.

At high wattage it wicks like a geyser and only requires short bursts to hit like a freight train.

 

[spraintz]

Lucid, I got my AC9 earlier this week and it's pretty friggin sweet. It's a vapor monster!!! I've been using it at 2.4ohms with 34g nichrome on 400mesh at about 4.7v and it's a steam train....choo...chooo!! I'll be excited to try the 32g Kanthal A-1 on it with more wraps.......it'll prolly choke me out

Studiovap, thanks for the kind words mate. My intent was to express some universal fundamentals of getting a wick oxidized no matter what method you use as non of the different methods are "wrong" but if ya don't know whats happening to the wick during the oxidation process than any method could potentially give ya trouble. I've never been big on making a video main because I don't really have the best setup and lighting to make a video good enough to show off the stages of the wick being oxidized clearly. I will consider it giving it a go tho. cheers

The cool part about part about the drill bit coil mounting is that you can mount the coil without the wick and test the resistance with no wick. This will let you know precisely where yer resistance should be once you put yer wick in......if there is any fluctuation or drop then you know you are shorting somewhere. Nice thing tho, is if it is off and adjusting doesn't work, just slide the wick out and and hit the wick again or make a new one but yer coil stays there and is still all ready to go. That technique takes some delicate work to slide the wick in without the coils moving around on ya. It works with any wire but it is way easier on 32g or thicker as the coil will move less on ya. The idea is to kinda "thread" the wick in like a screw using the spirals or the coil, it will just twist right on in....