Camel orbs, strips, etc. may be legal under new bill . . .

[Wally]

R.J. Reynolds apparently feels that its dissolvable tobacco products will receive automatic FDA approval under the new FDA/tobacco regulation because of their "equivalency" to the Star Scientific Ariva and Stonewall products that have been on the market for many years:

FDA regulates tobacco

So this is good news for the availability of harm-reduced products and current smokers, but it's not good news for Star. Star just lost a patent suit against RJR for what Star says was a novel and patentable way to cure tobacco for lower (very low) nitrosamine levels. These reduced nitrosamines are the key to the low risk of Star dissolvables. Star is appealing the decision, and I would think will have to win this suit to compete with RJR. I would also think that RJR would have to demonstrate that their nitrosamine levels are as low as those in the Star products to demonstrate equivalency. After the court decision, Star stock (STSI) lost about 80% of its value.

 

[OutWest]

from the article linked in the OP, bolding by me

Some analysts said that there's no guarantee that the law will fulfill the far-reaching promises touted by anti-tobacco groups.

For example, UBS research found that in four of five countries that have regulatory warnings covering most of the cigarette pack -- Australia, Brazil, Canada and United Kingdom -- sales dropped only between 0.8 percent and 2.4 percent in the first three years. In India, sales increased by 0.5 percent.

 

[Stubby]

"This is because the rules on new products do not require sign-off from the FDA if the product is substantially equivalent health-wise to existing products."

Camel Snus were introduced before February 2007, said Maura Payne, a spokeswoman for Reynolds. "There were also substantially equivalent snus products sold in the United States prior to Camel Snus."

Interesting take on snus. Reynolds claims there snus was on the market before February 2007. I wasn't aware of that one.

 

[OutWest]

I guess the joke will be on all those that held up packs of camel orbs in congress if indeed they can still be marketed.

 

[TropicalBob]

That article gives me a lot of hope. Thanks for posting it, Wally. I'm a gonna if Star Scientific's Stonewall becomes illegal.

 

[Cancer]

Tbob, we will support YOU no matter what happens You will not be a goner

 

[Surf Monkey]

The bottom line is that RJR isn't just going to drop SNUS, Orbs and so forth and dance down the lane like nothing happened simply because this bill passed. RJR has millions invested in those products and stands to make billions of dollars selling them. They have their campaigns, distribution and etc. all in place. The last thing they're going to do is fold their hand because Altria happens to own more Congressmen and Senators than they do. RJR will do everything they can to find a way to keep selling all that stuff, and given the weakness of the law, I think they won't have much trouble doing that. Neither will the PV makers.

 

[Wally]

That article gives me a lot of hope. Thanks for posting it, Wally. I'm a gonna if Star Scientific's Stonewall becomes illegal.

TB, you're welcome. I had you partly in mind when I saw it. Because of your posts on the forum, I tried the Stonewall products and I like them a lot. They're a lot more convenient that e-cigs because they work every time, they're consistent and because you can truly use them where ever you want. The e-cigs are a lot like having a pet, a lot of care and feeding. I don't think there's any question the Star products will still be legal, though the two flavored Stonewalls might be on their way out. (I don't remember of the banning of flavors applies to all tobacco products or just cigarettes.) I do also wonder if the company can stay in business without the competitive advantage of a patent. On the Camel products, we'll have to see if the FDA buys the equivalency idea. If the FDA does, it may put Star out of business. I think I read that Star's last quarterly sales of Ariva and Stonewall totaled $150,000 (one hundred and fifty thousand). RJR must do that every five minutes.

 

[NY JETS]

Star's business life depended on that lawsuit and patent. Once the verdict was reached, STSI went from 5 and change to 70 cents in about 10 minutes. The company is worth nothing now, yet had they won you would have been looking at a 10 dollar stock price just based on book valuations.

If they are denied an appeal or just lose their appeal case, they will be bought out for pennies on the dollar. If you have reason to believe they will be granted those patents for the curing methods, buy now!

 

[TropicalBob]

Believe it or not, but I read the entire legal findings in that lawsuit -- and I don't think they have an enforceable patent on the curing process. An appeal will be lost. Sad, but I think your first assumption will be correct, too. RJR looked at Ariva and Stonewall, said "damn good idea" and promptly copied everything about the little dissolvable tobacco bits. Ergo, we now get Camel Orbs.

I wish there were a financial way for me to stockpile a decade's worth of Stonewall Java, but that won't be the case.

 

[Wally]

Yes, it 's difficult for me also to see what value Star has left. Without the patent I can't see them competing in the market place place with RJR and I don't think the Ariva/Stonewall trademarks are worth anything to RJR because Star has done so poorly in the marketplace. They do (did?) have plans for a "nutribotanical" made from tobacco but its purpose is unclear to me. I've always disliked American tobacco companies and it would be difficult for me to use an RJR product.

 

[Vaporista]

Star should start exploring other markets in other countries. They never respond to emails so what's happening is anyone's guess. They have a product that would do well outside the RJR stomping ground, maybe they're out of steam? Does anyone know when the RJR dissolvables will be generally available and in what strength? Orbs, sticks and strips and whether these will be priced above or under Star's products?
I'm itching to try dissolvables-stars or RJRs but they're out of reach.