Can we trust the Bible?

[5cardstud]

2 Timothy 4:3
For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

 

[Southern Gent]

I've added the numbers for reference.
1 refers to the Bible. But it doesn't say that it is the Word. It certainly says that scripture is useful.
2 & 3 are talking about Jesus... and doesn't say that it's the Bible.
4. refers to His Word but does not say that it is the Bible.

I'm not arguing a point. I'm sincerely asking the question.

Do we (generally speaking) worship that which was created rather than the creator???

Might I offer that when we see the Bible as the "Word", it leads us to the Book. When we respect that the Bible says that Jesus is the Word, it points us toward relationship with God through Christ.

Do we lean on the book or do we lean on our relationship with God. Do we trust our understanding of the book or do we trust in our relationship and the Word that is written on our hearts by the Creator?

The Bible should be used as a guide book. The OT clearly gives us life examples of peoples from times past and we can see how God dealt with issues in their lives. NT gives us what should be our salvation, attitudes, church organization, info on future life and much else. The Bible is not to be worshiped but used for the spiritual growth of God's people. What is man to live and be judged by? Everything that proceeds from the mouth of God. Where do we find what comes from the mouth of God? The Bible. Hence by it's own accord it has become "the word of God".

 

[Southern Gent]

2 Timothy 4:3
For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

How many churches do you know that preach/teach nothing but "church doctrine" with very little Bible involved? They teach church doctrine and label it as sound doctrine. Jesus gets very little consideration in these churches. Clearly Paul told Timothy that this would happen.

 

[blondeambition3]

I've added the numbers for reference.
1 refers to the Bible. But it doesn't say that it is the Word. It certainly says that scripture is useful.
2 & 3 are talking about Jesus... and doesn't say that it's the Bible.
4. refers to His Word but does not say that it is the Bible.

I'm not arguing a point. I'm sincerely asking the question.

Do we (generally speaking) worship that which was created rather than the creator???

Might I offer that when we see the Bible as the "Word", it leads us to the Book. When we respect that the Bible says that Jesus is the Word, it points us toward relationship with God through Christ.

Do we lean on the book or do we lean on our relationship with God. Do we trust our understanding of the book or do we trust in our relationship and the Word that is written on our hearts by the Creator?

Oh! I 'get' exactly WHAT you're saying now Hy! I'd say our 'relationship' is number ONE but sometimes 'feelings' or what we 'feel' can be misleading (and or fleeting) so I rely then on the 'word' to compensate. Example: Jesus 'loves' me but I don't always 'feel' that love, so I 'rely' on the Word, by faith, to 'trust' God (at His word) even when my 'feelings' don't jive with it. Did this make sense Hy?

(I'm not the best communicator that's for sure!) lol

 

[HyOnLyph]

The Bible should be used as a guide book. The OT clearly gives us life examples of peoples from times past and we can see how God dealt with issues in their lives. NT gives us what should be our salvation, attitudes, church organization, info on future life and much else. The Bible is not to be worshiped but used for the spiritual growth of God's people. What is man to live and be judged by? Everything that proceeds from the mouth of God. Where do we find what comes from the mouth of God? The Bible. Hence by it's own accord it has become "the word of God".

Totally with you all the way up to the last conclusion. Scripture clearly says that Christ is the Word. And that He was the Word from the beginning. If we are to believe OT examples, then every word from the mouth of God was communicated by the prophets. Then the Spirit of God came upon a select individual. Now, the Holy Spirit dwells within us and leads us into all truth. How do we make the leap to the Bible being the Word of God? I don't see where Scripture calls itself the Word... especially when referring to the NT. In fact, scripture calls something else the Word... Christ... as the fulfillment of the OT picture of God communicating through Prophets.

 

[HyOnLyph]

Oh! I 'get' exactly WHAT you're saying now Hy! I'd say our 'relationship' is number ONE but sometimes 'feelings' or what we 'feel' can be misleading (and or fleeting) so I rely then on the 'word' to compensate. Example: Jesus 'loves' me but I don't always 'feel' that love, so I 'rely' on the Word, by faith, to 'trust' God (at His word) even when my 'feelings' don't jive with it. Did this make sense Hy?

(I'm not the best communicator that's for sure!) lol

Absolutely... Makes perfect sense.... I think that is why relationship is so important. Relationships are messy. They are based on love and not legalistic (hopefully) and they are worked out as two people learn to trust each other. The longer we focus on relationship with God, the more we grow to know His heart and trust Him. The less we fear... thus the less we are subject to our own random "feelings" or emotions.
If I become insecure in Christ's love for me, the Bible isn't going to convince me long term. Only real relationship will bring me to a place of trusting in God's love. "The Bible tells me so" may get me through for a short time... but without relationship and revelation of the truth of it all, I have nothing to stand on and I may even misinterpret based on what I think the Bible says.

I believe the Bible is scripture. I agree that it is good for guidance and reproof and correction. But my question is when did we begin to replace the Word, Christ, with the Bible.

I'll ponder a little outloud here.... Considering this...

The topic in the other thread about whether or not nicotine is a sin... is a prime example. Scripture doesn't say so but people struggle to find biblical points to prove their position. (In fact, we are told that all of creation, including all of the plants, are here for our use and for our good. That doesn't justify abuse of it or genetic refining.) But If we are in love relationship with God and thus each other, none of it matters. Who cares if it's sin or not. It doesn't apply to us. Sin is no longer the issue. Christ is! We are all transitioning to the Truth of God that dwells within us through the Spirit, because the Word is written on our hearts (as told to us by the Bible) and realizing who we are in Christ.

We all want something concrete to live our lives by... and because we want security, human nature and fear drives us to hold on to the rules.... the Law... But the law brings condemnation and death. True security is found in the person of Jesus Christ. Life is in him and learning to trust in his love for us. There seems to be a differnce between the knowledge of what I think the Bible says and knowing the loving heart of God toward me through relationship.

 

[Southern Gent]

Totally with you all the way up to the last conclusion. Scripture clearly says that Christ is the Word. And that He was the Word from the beginning. If we are to believe OT examples, then every word from the mouth of God was communicated by the prophets. Then the Spirit of God came upon a select individual. Now, the Holy Spirit dwells within us and leads us into all truth. How do we make the leap to the Bible being the Word of God? I don't see where Scripture calls itself the Word... especially when referring to the NT. In fact, scripture calls something else the Word... Christ... as the fulfillment of the OT picture of God communicating through Prophets.

God, having of old time spoken unto the fathers in the prophets by divers portions and in divers manners, hath at the end of these days spoken unto us in his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, through whom also he made the worlds;.who being the effulgence of his glory, and the very image of his substance, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had made purification of sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; having become by so much better than the angels, as he hath inherited a more excellent name than they.

 

[blondeambition3]

Absolutely... Makes perfect sense.... I think that is why relationship is so important. Relationships are messy. They are based on love and not legalistic (hopefully) and they are worked out as two people learn to trust each other. The longer we focus on relationship with God, the more we grow to know His heart and trust Him. The less we fear... thus the less we are subject to our own random "feelings" or emotions.
If I become insecure in Christ's love for me, the Bible isn't going to convince me long term. Only real relationship will bring me to a place of trusting in God's love. "The Bible tells me so" may get me through for a short time... but without relationship and revelation of the truth of it all, I have nothing to stand on and I may even misinterpret based on what I think the Bible says.

I believe the Bible is scripture. I agree that it is good for guidance and reproof and correction. But my question is when did we begin to replace the Word, Christ, with the Bible.

I'll ponder a little outloud here.... Considering this...

The topic in the other thread about whether or not nicotine is a sin... is a prime example. Scripture doesn't say so but people struggle to find biblical points to prove their position. (In fact, we are told that all of creation, including all of the plants, are here for our use and for our good. That doesn't justify abuse of it or genetic refining.) But If we are in love relationship with God and thus each other, none of it matters. Who cares if it's sin or not. It doesn't apply to us. Sin is no longer the issue. Christ is! We are all transitioning to the Truth of God that dwells within us through the Spirit, because the Word is written on our hearts (as told to us by the Bible) and realizing who we are in Christ.

We all want something concrete to live our lives by... and because we want security, human nature and fear drives us to hold on to the rules.... the Law... But the law brings condemnation and death. True security is found in the person of Jesus Christ. Life is in him and learning to trust in his love for us. There seems to be a differnce between the knowledge of what I think the Bible says and knowing the loving heart of God toward me through relationship.

Now THAT was beautifully said and what "I" would have said if I had your Gift of eloquence Hy! (lol) Thank you, I'm totally on the same page with you now and I concur.

 

[HyOnLyph]

God, having of old time spoken unto the fathers in the prophets by divers portions and in divers manners, hath at the end of these days spoken unto us in his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, through whom also he made the worlds;.who being the effulgence of his glory, and the very image of his substance, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had made purification of sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; having become by so much better than the angels, as he hath inherited a more excellent name than they.

I love that scripture. I could consider the magnitude of that for hours... and smile the whole time.

 

[Southern Gent]

I love that scripture. I could consider the magnitude of that for hours... and smile the whole time.

To that I say Amen

 

[eHuman]

"Can we trust the Bible?"
Sadly some people cannot be brought to trust in it.

Should we trust in it? I.E. Is it trustworthy?
Yes, with out a doubt.

 

[chimney55]

Which bible are we to trust-I have always been rather confused about why there are so many different versions?

What different "versions" are you talking about? My niece used to trot out that question, but that was because she was "clueless". (She thought that the "holy books" of other religions were also called Bibles--they aren't. ) Jews call their Holy scriptures the Torah (not the "Jewish Bible"). Muslims call their writings the Quran, not the "Muslim Bible".

Are you talking about translations? The Bible was originally written in 3 different languages on 3 different continents. To make them accessible to more people, the different books were translated into other languages. "War and Peace" was originally written in Russian then translated into multiple languages. Do you call that book translated in English a different "version" than the same novel translated into French? Remember, the original books were translated into English more than a thousand years ago. People (you may have noticed) usually have very little patience with texts that were written centuries ago, so the translations have been modernized.

Clarify what you mean please by "versions".

 

[Southern Gent]

What different "versions" are you talking about? My niece used to trot out that question, but that was because she was "clueless". (She thought that the "holy books" of other religions were also called Bibles--they aren't. ) Jews call their Holy scriptures the Torah (not the "Jewish Bible"). Muslims call their writings the Quran, not the "Muslim Bible".

Are you talking about translations? The Bible was originally written in 3 different languages on 3 different continents. To make them accessible to more people, the different books were translated into other languages. "War and Peace" was originally written in Russian then translated into multiple languages. Do you call that book translated in English a different "version" than the same novel translated into French? Remember, the original books were translated into English more than a thousand years ago. People (you may have noticed) usually have very little patience with texts that were written centuries ago, so the translations have been modernized.

Clarify what you mean please by "versions".

translations would be my guess
NIV, CEV, NASB, etc

 

[chimney55]

translations would be my guess
NIV, CEV, NASB, etc

But translations doesn't make it a different "version". And my niece seemed to believe that people of other religions had their own "versions of the Bible". (And she's in her 30s!)

 

[Southern Gent]

But translations doesn't make it a different "version". And my niece seemed to believe that people of other religions had their own "versions of the Bible". (And she's in her 30s!)

It's part of that live and let live conspiracy.....one is just as good as another or they are all "really" the same thing.
Broad is the path.......


























that leads to destruction

 

[Saintscruiser]

After my folks got married in 1942, my daddy's parents and friends spoke Yiddish. Of course my mom, being young and from the south, couldn't interrupt. So she'd just sit there like a bump on a log, not knowing what was being said. When the group started laughing heartily, she asked my daddy what the joke was. When he translated it into English, it wasn't funny and she just looked at him like he had 3 heads.

I think there is much more in Scripture than we all know and understand. That is why it is very important who you trust to completely translate the words. With this letter it means this....with that letter in the Greek, it means that. That is why it is so very important to pray for revelation on what we are reading. Case in point, the word rapture is not in the Bible, but the actual word used in Scripture means 'snatching away quickly.'

It is very important to use discernment in what we hear and what we are taught by man. What I've always heard, which I like is, "Don't take my word for it. Do your own study on it!" The Lord reveals to the faithful and hungry. He doesn't wish for you to be ignorant. Ignorant is completely different from stupid. With stupid, you know better and do it anyway. With ignorance, you didn't know at all. Many times in Scripture, it's written, "I do not wish you to be ignorant......" So if it's explained and you don't get it, ask the Lord for help. Have you ever heard a policeman say, "Ignorance of the law is no excuse?"

Back to the original question. Do I trust the Bible? Yes I do. Why? Because it was penned by Almighty God to His children, to teach, instruct, to let them know how much they are loved. Truth, above all else, will bring you freedom.....God's freedom, to go and teach others Who He is. The Bible is the proof, if they care to read it. Just a though.

 

[HyOnLyph]

Well said.
So were both of your parents Jewish or just your dad?
My wife's father is Jewish by heritage, raised Catholic and a non-denominational Pastor. Quite a mixture of influences.
He's filled with confident grace.

 

[blondeambition3]

" The Lord reveals to the faithful and hungry. He doesn't wish for you to be ignorant. Ignorant is completely different from stupid. With stupid, you know better and do it anyway. With ignorance, you didn't know at all. Many times in Scripture, it's written, "I do not wish you to be ignorant......" So if it's explained and you don't get it, ask the Lord for help. Have you ever heard a policeman say, "Ignorance of the law is no excuse?"

Back to the original question. Do I trust the Bible? Yes I do. Why? Because it was penned by Almighty God to His children, to teach, instruct, to let them know how much they are loved. Truth, above all else, will bring you freedom.....God's freedom, to go and teach others Who He is. The Bible is the proof, if they care to read it. Just a though.

Perfect L! Perfect!

 

[Saintscruiser]

Well said.
So were both of your parents Jewish or just your dad?
My wife's father is Jewish by heritage, raised Catholic and a non-denominational Pastor. Quite a mixture of influences.
He's filled with confident grace.

My daddy was Jewish by heritage and religion then became a Messianic Jew in his 50's or 60's. Hey, your wife is a Samaritan like me!

I was THE one who broke my grandparent's kosher home. I didn't like eggs cooked in butter when I was little.....only in bacon grease. So, my kosher grandmother went and bought bacon to bring into the house so I wouldn't starve. STARVE????? She'd cook all day long and my sister and I would intentionally walk through the kitchen as she'd always give us a cookie. We weren't stupid. We would, for so many years, drive from the deep South to New York to spend a couple of weeks with them during the summer.

So your father-in-law still living? Did he know any Yiddish? Did you guys ever watch the Frisco Kid with Gene Wilder and Harrison Ford? (A very young Harrison Ford.) We loved that movie and would laugh and laugh. As a matter of fact, I may watch it again tonight since I'm sick and under the weather. People with no Jewish background never thought this movie was very funny. Hey, that's another point to make on translations of the Bible.

 

[HyOnLyph]

Yeah, my father-in-law is still living. He's Jewish by heritage only. Never learned yiddish. A Southern California boy so never really embraced the culture either. But when he became a believer in Christ, he certainly latched on to the promises of Abraham.