• This forum has been archived

    If you'd like to post a thread, post it here instead!

    View Forum

Canadian Media

Status
Not open for further replies.

Mathew R Taylor

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Oct 2, 2010
417
13
Charlotte, NC
Hey all - a recent vaper here. I am Canadian born and bred (hail from Kingston, ON), but currently work out of the US. I am trying to convince family and friends back home of the amazingness of switching (something like join the dark side, we have vapour) but can't prove that it's ok to do. All the articles I can find are either from 2008,2009 or from here in the states. I sent an email off to CTV and the Toronto Sun for follow ups on their articles, and I can't find anything worth it's salt with the Ministry of Health. Does anyone have news articles, videos, or media from "legitimate" sources that I can pass along to my brethren north of the border?

Anything you can provide would be greatly appreciated!!

Mathew
 

rachelcoffe

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Jul 25, 2010
568
230
Toronto
Hi there Mathew!
huggy.gif
Allow me to provide you with some helpful (and true) info that you can pass on to your family & friends. (Apologies in advance for going on a bit long.
biggrinfinal.gif
)


Firstly, here's a couple of posts that I've made that might be helpful:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/canada-forum/128566-organic-canadian-e-liquids.html (post #3)
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...aping-ability-would-you-go-back-smokes-4.html (post #37 - warning it's a long one) :laugh:

I may cut & paste a bit from both of those below, too, for the sake of convenience. Never hurts to reiterate the truth.

But - you're looking for media stuff. OK then.
Here's an article from a little indie rag known as TIME Magazine :p re: the beneficial, powerful bactericidal/germicidal (and in some cases even virucidal) action of vapourized propylene glycol (it should be very useful):

Medicine: Air Germicide - TIME

A quote from that article:

"Dr. Robertson placed groups of mice in a chamber and sprayed its air first with propylene glycol, then with influenza virus. All the mice lived. Then he sprayed the chamber with virus alone. All the mice died."

This is why vapers are far less likely than non-vapers to catch a seasonal cold or flu bug. Because the inside of their lungs & the air around them is being kept clean as a whistle. The facts are indisputable. Not only is vaping not bad for you...it's actually quite beneficial. Not just because it keeps us away from tobacco, but in and of itself. Imagine my pleasant surprise at discovering that!

clap.gif


But yeah, it's true. No one can dispute this because these are known, tested facts. Of course, the cherry-picked, deliberately distorted "information" (more like disinformation) that the U.S. FDA released would give you quite the opposite impression. "E-juice contains propylene glycol, an ingredient found in antifreeze." Gasp! :ohmy: What they don't mention is that it's also found in countless foods, drinks, medicines & more & is known to be totally safe (and when vapourized, is of benefit). PG is included in antifreeze in order to make it that much less toxic, in case any idiot ever tried to drink it. But the FDA tries to put the idea into people's heads that vapers are somehow inhaling antifreeze, which isn't the case at all...you see?

The reason the FDA distorted their scant "information" & basically made a lot of unfounded, unproven insinuations was simple: they're a far more sketchy organization interested in co-operating with big pharma & big tobacco, than they are any kind of independent health agency [is it any wonder so many pills for this or that are given FDA approval, only for the public to find out a year or two later that those pills they've been buying are - shockingly - deadly as hell and have to be pulled?]. And isn't it a coincidence that PG, VG, and nicotine are all generic things that can't be patented. In other words, there's no way for anyone to corner the market on vaping. Ditto for e-cig technology.

So those who stand to lose money (if people stop smoking - stop purchasing ineffective NRT things - & start vaping) really, really hate it. They don't care that vaping is healthy & will save lives. They're lamenting the inevitable loss of what for decades was a sure source of moolah. And that's the crux of it - the only reason anyone argues against vaping is because vaping presents the first real, true threat to the future of tobacco cigarette smoking in human history (and all the money that tobacco makes).

The good news is, there's no real way they can stop vaping (with or without nicotine) because there's no legitimacy to the anti-vaping position. E-cig technology, PG, VG, flavouring - no grounds. And if they try an attack on nicotine (which wouldn't have legitimate grounds either), they destroy themselves. Hence the general tactic of keeping vaping as much out of the public eye as possible, for as long as possible.

(They'd be wise to pull their money now & invest in Google or Tim Hortons or something instead.) :laugh:

Vaping offers all the fun of smoking, without smoking - and without any of the danger. If anything (as we've already stated, with proof given) it's beneficial.

Beneficial because it keeps you away from tobacco - and because of vapourized PG's powerful germicidal, bactericidal, and even virucidal action.

The Health Canada "warning" from March 2009 is also about as weak and negligible as a "warning" could possibly be. They're basically saying "a few people might be mildly allergic to vapourized PG & so might find it an 'irritant' - oh and if you use nicotine, it's addictive. So is caffeine, but then we're hoping you'll automatically tie 'nicotine addiction' to 'deadly smoking' and therefore ignore the fact that nicotine addiction in and of itself is as harmless as caffeine addiction. Of course, if you concentrated nicotine to deadly levels - levels many times higher than those found in tobacco, or NRT, or e-juice - you could get poisoning. But we'll neglect to mention that the same is true for just about everything on the planet."

Very few people are allergic to PG in vapourized or liquid form. That's why PG is so commonly & widely used, in foods, drinks, medicines - in the air ventilation system in many hospitals to keep the air clean for goodness' sakes - asthma inhalers, and the list goes on, you name it. Furthermore, unlike tobacco smoke (which is deadly, hangs in the air & poses a second-hand risk), PG vapour is clean, dissipates within seconds & poses no risk. So that chalks up their "known irritant" baloney. As to "electronic smoking products may pose risks such as nicotine poisoning and addiction" - if you were a smoker, you're already addicted to nicotine (which isn't necessarily a bad thing - depending on your means of delivery). They didn't even say that it does pose those risks, they just said it may. Which was wise. Because nicotine is totally optional for vapers - one doesn't need to use nicotine in one's e-juice.

Vaping itself is good for you, and the optional nicotine in your e-juice is (for the average person) essentially harmless. Nicotine itself, at the levels found in tobacco, NRT, or e-juice (they all have similar, comparable levels), is no more harmful than the caffeine in your coffe, as numerous studies have shown.

Nicotine & caffeine have a lot in common; they're both addictive, they're both mild stimulants consumed for pleasure, and they're both essentially harmless in the average person's typical level of consumption. Next time someone says "nicotine is a vasoconstrictor!" tell them "so is caffeine - but you don't stop drinking coffe." They're both quite mild in that regard.

It's the means of delivery that makes all the difference. Deadly tobacco cigarettes...or cleansing, healthy PG vapour.

Just about everything is deadly when you concentrate it and/or get too much of it - sunlight, water, sugar, caffeine, aspirin, vitamins - you name it. All of those things are perfectly fine & indeed, most are beneficial - if consumed at safe levels. The same is true of nicotine. So Health Canada's "warning" is really of no consequence when it comes to vaping. And on a practical level, they've issued the warning but otherwise been content to largely let the issue drop (for reasons I explained in the second post link I gave you).

And compare if you will: if caffeine were the addictive element in cigarettes - and you quit smoking & started drinking coffe to get your caffeine - you'd rapidly see the foolishness of a comparable Health Canada warning designed to outlaw coffe: "Consumption of coffe may pose risks such as caffeine poisoning and addiction."

.....right. :laugh:

So by all means...show your friends & family that TIME article. It should considerably set them at ease about the contents of what you're vaping. You've made a positive, healthy choice & added years - decades - to your life expectancy. You might also want to read the way that I describe it to my friends & family (in the first post link I gave you).

Hope that helped!
huggy.gif
The TIME article is a clincher, but the rest was valuable too. Let us know how things go.
smilefinal.gif


P.S. For the record, I think Canada is one of the best places for vapers. Apart from a brief, weak, official "frown" from Health Canada in March 2009...practically speaking, Canada is content to allow people to vape if they want. With or without nicotine. So yay. God keep our land glorious & free.
huggy.gif
 
Last edited:

Switched

ECF Guru
ECF Veteran
Feb 18, 2010
10,144
2,544
Dartmouth, NS Canada
Folks need to be careful here. To state that vaping is good or safe for you is irresponsible to say the least. A more responsible way to compare vaping over smoking, is that vaping is a safer alternative.

When talking to folks who may question the contents of our liquids e.g Glycol which they immediately interpret as some sort of anti-freeze, clarifying the misconception with some of its benefits is a wiser position to take. e.g it has been used in hospital air filtration systems as.... it is the medicine carrier in many asthma inhalers etc... to blatantly claim that vaping is safe of good for you is as irresponsible as the FDA's mis-information IMHO.

The chemicals that we use and are found in foods etc... were never meant for direct inhalation over prolonged periods and their effects on the body very much still an unknown. Point in fact many vapers are allergic to PG, yet they have consumed PG all their lives in food etc... without any adverse effects. So why are these folks developing an intolerance towards PG? We/they are consuming these chemicals at a much higher concentration than intended. They are directed to the lungs instead of the stomach, where a natural decomposition (break down) takes place for the body to get rid of them.

Although my Doctor supports my vaping, she is extremely cautious wrt which position she takes. The only position she has taken to date is that you are no longer smoking, and only time will tell if there is any lasting benefits to vaping or hidden dangers associated with vaping. That is IMO a responsible position to take, with what we know to date.
 

smokum

Vaping Master
Supporting Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Dec 9, 2008
4,669
385
61
Ottawa, Ontario -CANADA-
Thanks for piping in with your comments Switched.

I tried drafting up a response along the same line but couldn't edit it "properly" to avoid coming across combative in the end, and without a decent reference to fall on (my brain is NOT working properly lately & appears to be getting worse with my injury), so I chose to not participate in the discussion with my statements on the grounds that the poster being commented on is a supporter/advocate of the e-cig and appears to be a good person in their attempts at advocacy.

PEACE to all, and be aware of your comments as to not give more firepower to be misconstrued by the opponents.

VapeOn,
Greg
 

Switched

ECF Guru
ECF Veteran
Feb 18, 2010
10,144
2,544
Dartmouth, NS Canada
No problem Greg! I didn't want folks to get the wrong impression wrt vaping safety, which as we know is still very much a great unknown due to its infancy.

The advocacy groups that are fighting for our continued rights to vape are very strict on how we should be wording our comments, especially on the Internet where <<everything you say can be used against you>> as proven in the recent past. It is not just on the forums but some positive comments left on vendor's sites have been cited by the enemy and used against us.

We know vaping works as __________ and we know it is a "safer" alternative, that is all we know for the time being, the rest is pure conjecture at "this" time IMHO.

I will not openly discuss certain topics, but I do entertain PMs.
 
Last edited:

Mathew R Taylor

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Oct 2, 2010
417
13
Charlotte, NC
Switched I appreciate that, and as a convert we do have a tendency to overlook that. I am not looking for pro-Vaping (though that'd be nice), but more over more information from reliable and Canadian sources. It would be excellent for example CBC more than light content on it, as it would the Ministry of health having anything current. I have sent emails to the larger media outlets as well as Health Canada for information but haven't really had any sort of response to note.

My objective is for my friends and family to listen to my "side" of the story, educate themselves from reliable (and generally unbiased) sources and make up their own mind. I spent about a month or so doing my own research, and mostly the current information I found was from the United States. While this is pertinent for me living south of the border, my northern family tends to shy away from any non-maple stamped info.

Mathew
 

CooL_SpoT

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Aug 30, 2010
143
0
Trenton, Ontario
The chemicals that we use and are found in foods etc... were never meant for direct inhalation over prolonged periods and their effects on the body very much still an unknown.

Not entirely true. Studies have been done on the effects of long-term inhalation of vaporized Propylene Glycol (or, more accurately: the inhalation of vaporized PG at concentrations greater than the body can absorb over a relatively long period of time, given the concentrations used.... but that seemed too wordy.)

TESTS FOR THE CHRONIC TOXICITY OF PROPYLEXE GLYCOL AND TRIETHYLENE GLYCOL ON MONKEYS AND RATS BY VAPOR INHALATION AND ORAL ADMINISTRATION

Given that the concentrations we're inhaling are FAR FAR less than this, I would think that to be fairly conclusive evidence that vaping is safe (strictly when speaking of PG, mind you). In fact, it was this study that convinced me to start vaping.

Having said that, I'm no scientist, so I'm still playing it safe, and only thinking of vaping as safer than smoking; though not necessarily safe, since we aren't strictly speaking of PG.
 

rachelcoffe

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Jul 25, 2010
568
230
Toronto
Agreed, CooL_SpoT.

To Switched...I understand in principle where you're coming from.
huggy.gif
And I appreciate you conceding that "clarifying misconceptions with some of [vapour's] benefits is a wiser position..." I do just that (see how I explain the contents of e-juice to friends & family in post #3 of this thread: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/canada-forum/128566-organic-canadian-e-liquids.html). We're on the same side - we're both vapers.

I'm also all for vapers being careful to only make claims that are backed up solidly. But it is also my considered opinion that when I say that the germ-killing action of PG vapour is good for you, and that nicotine (at the levels found in the average e-juice) is no more harmful than the caffeine in your coffe...that I am making claims that are backed up solidly.

Firstly, I think it's important to note that everything in the universe is made up of "chemicals" - including our bodies. We have a tendency to mentally associate 'chemicals' with terms like 'man-made' & 'toxic' - so I just want to nip that association in the bud. Fact: propylene glycol, vegetable glycerin, and nicotine are all organic substances derived from nature.

With regards to the safety of inhaling vapourized propylene glycol: that is safe. "How can you say that?" Because it's already proven in study after study. And I would defy anyone to come up with any evidence that even suggests that it's not.

Where's my evidence? The study in the TIME Magazine article - and the numerous follow-up studies over the many years since that verifiy the results of the original study. Which consequently led to the widespread use of vapourized propylene glycol in society, as an air disinfectant and as a medicinal delivery agent in things like asthma inhalers.

The overwhelming body of scientific study & related evidence over the last 68 years says that inhaling vapourized propylene glycol is conclusively safe. Of course, technically speaking, no one can conclusively prove anything (including whether we even exist). But on a practical level, yes - the evidence is conclusive.

The TIME Magazine article mentions something else of import:

"Last June Dr. Robertson began studying the effect of glycol vapor on monkeys imported from the University of Puerto Rico's School of Tropical Medicine. So far, after many months' exposure to the vapor, the monkeys are happy and fatter than ever. Dr. Robertson does not expect mankind to live, like his monkeys, continuously in an atmosphere of glycol vapor; but it should be most valuable in such crowded places as schools and theaters, where most respiratory diseases are picked up."

Vapers are also not "continuously exposed" to an atmosphere of glycol vapour; you vape a bit, your atomizer heats up and you set it down for a minute or two.

The point is - the monkeys were perfectly fine after being continuously exposed for many months! And why shouldn't they have been? Because, as the article stated earlier:

"The researchers found that the propylene glycol itself was a potent germicide. One part of glycol in 2,000,000 parts of air would—within a few seconds—kill concentrations of air-suspended pneumococci, streptococci and other bacteria numbering millions to the cubic foot. / Dr. Robertson placed groups of mice in a chamber and sprayed its air first with propylene glycol, then with influenza virus. All the mice lived. Then he sprayed the chamber with virus alone. All the mice died."

Inhaling vapourized PG will therefore kill a large number of germs, bacteria (and in some cases even viruses) that would otherwise have free access to your lungs. How is that not "good for you" - ???

Is anyone disputing the findings of these studies? :confused:

And if anyone is...on what basis are they doing so? How many more additional redundant studies would it take before they accepted the findings?

I am all for vapers being careful to only make claims that are backed up solidly. Conversely, the FDA has a vested financial interest in finding fault with vaping - has a terrible track record - and has so far presented little more than vague insinuations that don't hold up under objective study.

Are several new studies warranted, specifically with human beings vaping via their e-cigs, using PG, PG/VG, PG with nic, and PG/VG with nic? Yes. Such studies would only be of benefit to us. (Though it will take private funding to get those done. Big pharma will not fund studies that are likely to hurt their NRT sales. The government will not fund studies that are likely to hurt their tobacco tax revenue.) But my point is, the large body of evidence already gathered concludes that the (very) likely result of those studies would be: it's safe.

So in the meantime, I feel perfectly justified in pointing out the already-known facts about the beneficial nature of PG vapour (i.e. it does kill germs, etc., has no known harmful effect, and is already widely used in society in both vapourized & liquid form).

And to touch briefly on the relatively harmless use of nicotine - numerous studies, physicians' groups, and more have concluded that nicotine (at the levels found in the average e-juice) is no more harmful to the average person than the caffeine in our coffe. Here's an interesting link (just one of many out there):

BBC NEWS | Health | Smokers 'need more help to quit'

The Royal College of Physicians in the UK (an impressive body); Professor Britton, who is also an expert in epidemiology at the University of Nottingham; Action on Smoking and Health and Cancer Research UK - they all agree that nicotine is no more harmful than caffeine.

Given what we already know...questioning the safety of vaping is a quibble, little more. And all that aside - we are definitely agreed on the fact that vaping is far, far more safe than deadly tobacco cigarette smoking.

Happy Vaping!
huggy.gif
 

rachelcoffe

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Jul 25, 2010
568
230
Toronto
I hear you Mathew. The media is part of the same bureaucratic BS as HC. Since it is banned in Canada I don't expect to find anything in the media. Depending on what transpires with the present litigation in the US and the UK, I don't see things changing any time soon.

I completely agree, Switched. Though sooner or later, things will change for the better. Meanwhile, as long as we can vape & share the news with others one at a time, yay.
smilefinal.gif
 

Mathew R Taylor

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Oct 2, 2010
417
13
Charlotte, NC
Thanks all for ringing in - I guess people will have to go the same route as me, and research the heck out themselves.

Switched, you mentioned that it was banned in Canada, I haven't read any literature particular to that being the case, and I do see a number of eliquid and ecig companies based in Canada. I do see a health advisory Health Canada Advises Canadians Not to Use Electronic Cigarettes - Health Canada Advisory 2009-03-27 but nothing following up on that. Do you have the url by chance?

Mathew
 

CooL_SpoT

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Aug 30, 2010
143
0
Trenton, Ontario
I'd like to see a link on that myself, as this isn't the first time I've heard the claim that vaping or e-cigs were banned in Canada, and yet I haven't seen anything at all to confirm that. (Other than some other equally unsubstantiated claim.)

PS. This is not meant in any way as a stab at you, Switched. I've read a number of your posts around ECF, and I highly respect your opinions and insights.
 

smokum

Vaping Master
Supporting Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Dec 9, 2008
4,669
385
61
Ottawa, Ontario -CANADA-
The ONLY "ban" in place is related to the marketing/selling of the electronic cigarette due to the lack of "market authorization" that is needed by ANYONE wanting to market or sell a new device/invention because of current law.

There are NO bans in place for "the personal use of" electronic cigarettes aside from those imposed by property/establishment owners, who are within their own rights to enforce what THEY want to accept within the confines of their controlled property.

Its astounding the amount of "part truths and exaggerations" being reported without ALL the facts being said (can we say "manipulative CONTROL" ?), that is spewed out daily by large organizations and the media and they're sensationalism attempts at "OMG news". If you were to point a finger and steer the proper article stipulation in dispute of "their" statement or claim, your comments would simply be fluffed off because they already have the headline (don't expect a retraction, lol).


This is how "I" foresee things going should all the hype gain enough attention to actually impose a "legal" written overall BAN...... Because the devices already have been in the market place for years now, and the positive use following continues to grow in leaps and bounds, there is absolutely NOTHING authorities can do to squash this new found "better for you than cigarettes" use of the electronic cigarette with current or future users. The information is out, the Internet is a glorious and life dependant aid, and people now with this knowledge and information WILL NOT allow anyone or anything get in their way of self betterment knowing they can quite easily obtain all the "pieces" they need, and if needed, there are enough articles on extractions to attempt creating they're OWN source of nicotine.

This is a BAD thing to happen !! As you will now have many who want the choice of their indulgence's intake means, leaving many inexperienced people basing they're found quirk information as fact (well it's on the Internet so it must be true mentalities), and risking great harm both with the mechanical ends of creating their own device as well as with extracting of the nicotine themselves without the proper equipment and knowledge to do so accurately and safely. And THAT will see many injuries and deaths down the road should it happen that way.

Honestly, its so obvious at this point that the whole issue is a matter of MONEY & CONTROL regarding this wonderful invention that its quite impossible to see any sense or legitimate claims of ill health in play for the power struggle of the almighty dollar. If there was really a health issue, do you not believe that they would hardly blink an eye at spending the needed funding to perform govt level testing to prove their point legitimately that these are unsafe (sorry FDA... you failed !), that couldn't be disputed as "we want your money" ?? How much does govt (all levels), and facilities make off of cancer treatments again ? How about waste, air quality testing, other smoking health related treatments including NRT ? WELCOME TO THE GAME OF MONOPOLY ... AND ALL WITH OUR TAX DOLLARS !

Isn't this fun ???..... NOT !!!

VapeOn,
Greg
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread