It's a little known fact that HR actually protects the company and not the employee. You should have called the cops and filed an assault charge.
Can't get a job if you are a smoker!!!
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true, but what I'm saying is, the stuff you buy in the grocery store is utter crap as well because of the way it's made. Nobody cooks anymore, they just buy crap and heat it up, or dump it out of boxes, cans and frozen containers.I'll take the detour
Fast food markets to small children in ways that would make big tobacco flush with jealousy. I don't exactly disagree with you, people are more sedentary however fast food is utter hell on the system because it's all processed to death (you actually have to eat more to get basic nutritional requirements filled.)
You can make essentially the same food at home using decent ingredients and none of it is going to be nearly as harmful to you as the fast food versions.
Agreed, but boxed food is still not as nasty as fast food. At least with the boxed stuff people have the time to read labels and manufacturers know it. It doesn't mean that everyone chooses to read the label, but at least more people try.
I can't tell you how many times I've been to a fast food joint and asked to see the nutritional information only to have the staff look at me like I've grown a second head.
What's worse is the that the employees themselves are discriminated against if they are (or become) overweight. I guess management figures it looks bad if people see the result of daily cr*p consumption.
I can't tell you how many times I've been to a fast food joint and asked to see the nutritional information only to have the staff look at me like I've grown a second head.
What's worse is the that the employees themselves are discriminated against if they are (or become) overweight. I guess management figures it looks bad if people see the result of daily cr*p consumption.
I couldn't call the cops, she claimed she didn't do it, and her husband is a cop... so it would have gone nowhere real fast.
Next there will be "Are you, or have you been in the last 12 months, overweight?" Sorry we can't hire fat people because it makes the insurance go up. The list goes on for what they might do based on social bias.
I can't say it sounds legal to me...but that often doesn't matter unless someone is willing to test/fight it (which, more often than not, isn't the case).
I wonder what they would say if you opened a business and refused to hire people that DIDN'T smoke? I can just hear the public outcry now. Who cares about "equal opportunity" anyways?
I just realized I may have rehashed points already in this thread (I hadn't read all of it when I posted... I know, shame on me... but still this chaps me off a bit!)
I can't say it sounds legal to me...but that often doesn't matter unless someone is willing to test/fight it (which, more often than not, isn't the case).
I wonder what they would say if you opened a business and refused to hire people that DIDN'T smoke? I can just hear the public outcry now. Who cares about "equal opportunity" anyways?
I just realized I may have rehashed points already in this thread (I hadn't read all of it when I posted... I know, shame on me... but still this chaps me off a bit!)
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Really, the only way to fix this issue, is for there to be a "coup d'état" (for lack of a better word) where every American who feels discriminated against, smoker, overweight, mental health problem, diabetes, hell, anyone who needs insurance, refuses to get insurance and then skips out on their bills when they do go to the doctor or the hospital.
But everyone would have to do it. Health Insurance is profit driven, not health driven and until the people stand up against that and stop being held hostage by these profit driven businesses, this will continue to go on, and will only continue to get worse.
I think the word your looking for is revolution -- but it'll never happen. America is far too politically correct and, frankly, pansy for any large group of people to actually stand up for themselves.
I wish more American's would carefully reread the Declaration of Independence. Many of the things in it ring true today... for instance:
"Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."
Seems like Thomas Jefferson knew what he was talking about and might have even been a bit of a seer. This doesn't just apply to smoking or nicotine use or anything involving that. The list of rights that were intended for the individual in this country and have, since it's inception, been revoked is becoming too long to list without seeming tedious. We have continuously made small concessions until we are somewhere about halfway to socialism. Whatever political spectrum you belong to -- it is difficult to not assert that we are not what our founders intended us to be anymore.
The problem is that, as a nation, we are unwilling to do anything about it.
I'll end this post with yet another of my favorite quotes from Thomas Jefferson:
"When the people fear their government, there is Tyranny; when the government fears it's people, there is Liberty."
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nicotine is not illegal (law)
You cannot work for the county if you test positive for nicotine (employment policy)
you are comparing apples and oranges
IMO, the only things that an employer should be able to dictate / insist upon are things which have a direct impact upon your ability to do your job. End of.
Admitedly, here in the UK we don't have the same issues regarding health insurance in a job as you do in the US, since it isn't so standard a 'benefit' from employers here, but the last job I had that gave private health insurance didn't ask any questions about me. They seem to do it more on a 'block policy' for up to x number of people here, with the charge being based on 'averages'
Admitedly, here in the UK we don't have the same issues regarding health insurance in a job as you do in the US, since it isn't so standard a 'benefit' from employers here, but the last job I had that gave private health insurance didn't ask any questions about me. They seem to do it more on a 'block policy' for up to x number of people here, with the charge being based on 'averages'
The thing about politics... ok maybe I shouldn't go there... but... I must point out something. Socialists have universal health care, even those countries who are mildly socialist. They also have "social programs" for the homeless, drug addicted, alcohol addicted, teen pregnancy etc citizens who need help. What do we have? We have police, prisons, and elderly people on medicare that pay hundreds of dollars every month for supplemental insurance that they never use (my mother) and when they finally decide to use it (once in 10 years) they have to pay hundreds of dollars to buy a few prescriptions. It makes no sense.
Back on topic... Think about what it would be like if the government actually allowed people to buy whatever they wanted, taxed it, and paid for health care. If a person wants to jab a needle in their arm and get high... as long as they don't have kids around, and they aren't stealing to buy the drugs, who cares? What if you offered that drug addict some care, some medically controlled detoxification? That's where you will improve society. Instead of imprisoning people with addictions, why not offer them services to overcome those addictions and why doesn't the government just sell the crap themselves? I don't know why the US has these policies. I Wasn't put on this earth to decide what is right and what is wrong for other people. I am thinking that when people smarten up a little, we might have a sort of intellectual revolution.
I do agree with above post though. The only way to put insurance companies out of business is to have doctors willing to provide services for what you would pay in a copay if you had insurance. Honestly, a doctor willing to treat me for 30 or 40 bucks is fair. Why should I have to pay 300 a month to get a 30 dollar visit?
why should my mother pay 108 dollars for an antibiotic eyedrop for her cataract surgery?
Back on topic... Think about what it would be like if the government actually allowed people to buy whatever they wanted, taxed it, and paid for health care. If a person wants to jab a needle in their arm and get high... as long as they don't have kids around, and they aren't stealing to buy the drugs, who cares? What if you offered that drug addict some care, some medically controlled detoxification? That's where you will improve society. Instead of imprisoning people with addictions, why not offer them services to overcome those addictions and why doesn't the government just sell the crap themselves? I don't know why the US has these policies. I Wasn't put on this earth to decide what is right and what is wrong for other people. I am thinking that when people smarten up a little, we might have a sort of intellectual revolution.
I do agree with above post though. The only way to put insurance companies out of business is to have doctors willing to provide services for what you would pay in a copay if you had insurance. Honestly, a doctor willing to treat me for 30 or 40 bucks is fair. Why should I have to pay 300 a month to get a 30 dollar visit?
why should my mother pay 108 dollars for an antibiotic eyedrop for her cataract surgery?
this is just a clear example that this is a path towards nicotine prohibition. it doesn't really have anything to do with tobacco use, it has to do with nicotine use.... it's just bothersome because nicotine when delivered in a "clean" way, is no more harmful to the body than caffeine. (which concerns me because once nicotine is banned, caffeine will undoubtedly be next)
but, as we both know, we live in a country where officials can impose ridiculous regulations upon us, as enrogae and i were discussing, a revolution is really the only thing that can change that. the anti-nicotine coalition has figured out that a ban on nicotine will cause a serious issue... so they will just get employers, insurance companies etc to force these types of regulations on their employees so eventually, they will hopefully stop.
i am grateful i am not in the position to need employment from an employer like the OC government. i feel for those who must submit to such standards.
"The thing about politics... ok maybe I shouldn't go there... but... I must point out something. Socialists have universal health care, even those countries who are mildly socialist. They also have "social programs" for the homeless, drug addicted, alcohol addicted, teen pregnancy etc citizens who need help. What do we have?"
Stare run medical facilities, welfare, foodstamps, medicare(caid), Public schools, transport, and roads and libraries, GI bill...I can go on... those are socialist programs.
"We have police, prisons, and elderly people on medicare that pay hundreds of dollars every month for supplemental insurance that they never use (my mother) and when they finally decide to use it (once in 10 years) they have to pay hundreds of dollars to buy a few prescriptions. It makes no sense."
No, It doesn't. (prisons? wth? lol)
"Back on topic... Think about what it would be like if the government actually allowed people to buy whatever they wanted, taxed it, and paid for health care. If a person .... I don't know why the US has these policies. I Wasn't put on this earth to decide what is right and what is wrong for other people. I am thinking that when people smarten up a little, we might have a sort of intellectual revolution."
But..I don't trust our government with my, your money, any money, also I don't want to live in a completely socialist country. Adding *more socialistic branches to a dysfunctional system just doesn't seem like a good idea. Its barely working in other contries who have been doing if for way longer. Its just not an idea that works in action, its only good on paper.
"The only way to put insurance companies out of business is to have doctors willing to provide services for what you would pay in a copay if you had insurance. Honestly, a doctor willing to treat me for 30 or 40 bucks is fair. Why should I have to pay 300 a month to get a 30 dollar visit?"
Because its a free market society? If we were socialist and you only paid small copays, you make less money a month after the high taxes and in the end 30 feels like 300 anyway.
"why should my mother pay 108 dollars for an antibiotic eyedrop for her cataract surgery?"
She shouldn't, but why should my tax dollars pay for it?
I am a fairtax fan.
)
Stare run medical facilities, welfare, foodstamps, medicare(caid), Public schools, transport, and roads and libraries, GI bill...I can go on... those are socialist programs.
"We have police, prisons, and elderly people on medicare that pay hundreds of dollars every month for supplemental insurance that they never use (my mother) and when they finally decide to use it (once in 10 years) they have to pay hundreds of dollars to buy a few prescriptions. It makes no sense."
No, It doesn't. (prisons? wth? lol)
"Back on topic... Think about what it would be like if the government actually allowed people to buy whatever they wanted, taxed it, and paid for health care. If a person .... I don't know why the US has these policies. I Wasn't put on this earth to decide what is right and what is wrong for other people. I am thinking that when people smarten up a little, we might have a sort of intellectual revolution."
But..I don't trust our government with my, your money, any money, also I don't want to live in a completely socialist country. Adding *more socialistic branches to a dysfunctional system just doesn't seem like a good idea. Its barely working in other contries who have been doing if for way longer. Its just not an idea that works in action, its only good on paper.
"The only way to put insurance companies out of business is to have doctors willing to provide services for what you would pay in a copay if you had insurance. Honestly, a doctor willing to treat me for 30 or 40 bucks is fair. Why should I have to pay 300 a month to get a 30 dollar visit?"
Because its a free market society? If we were socialist and you only paid small copays, you make less money a month after the high taxes and in the end 30 feels like 300 anyway.
"why should my mother pay 108 dollars for an antibiotic eyedrop for her cataract surgery?"
She shouldn't, but why should my tax dollars pay for it?
I am a fairtax fan.
)
This morning I find a message from my employer, a public school, announcing an important change to our health insurance rates. You know where this is going. As of Jan. 2010, if I do not quit using nicotine, my rates will increase dramatically. "Starting January 1st, tobacco-free employees will no longer be subsidizing the medical insurance premiums of tobacco users. This means that tobacco users will pay a significantly higher insurance premium than non-tobacco users...nicotine testing will likely play a role." I am seething right now, attempting to stop myself from firing back an angry retort to this nonsense. The last significant claim I had to my health insurer was the birth of my son 16 years ago. I have not even met the $500 family deductible for my plan since then. I take no prescriptions and have no known health issues, yet I am blamed for the rising health care costs of my peers who are obese, hypochondriacs, alcoholics, etc It is somehow MY fault, despite my lack of claims and health problems that health care is rising. Excuse me, I have to go sob in the corner after I vomit.
Sheri - I am so sorry sweetheart. That sucks. This is the beginning of nicotine prohibition, right there... being enforced through the insurance companies since they cannot get an outright ban through the government.
Officials can only impose what the people allow
Employers base their rules on money.
I will never feel sorry for government employees I have to deal with them every day <g>
There's a simple solution for financing your mom's medicare and prescriptions, which is both fiscally responsible and socially just-- socialize electricity. Because in most areas the electric utilities are little oligarchies unto themselves and legally fit the definition of a monopoly, it just makes sense for the government to take them over.
We know the government can do this with some success (the USPS is a good example of the federal business model.)
Once all the fat is skimmed from the electric utility the profits could pay for all the fat alcohol pregnant chainsmokers and then some to have proper health care.
You should get a really smart lawyer(oxymoron? lol) and fight this. Set the precedent- bring out the big guns and new studies that found obesity related issues are now becoming the leading cause of death in the US. Find some other smokers/nic users at work and make it a class action.
This is a fabulous idea!
And... if we can promote greener electricity technology... wow! Imagine if all at once an area converted homes to solar panels? How inexpensive it would be to convert a large area, how much solar electricity could be generated and how many jobs could be created. (Obviously certain areas would fair better with wind, water etc).You haven't paid an electricity bill until you have paid one in the dead of winter in Indiana!
Sheri - I second tallgirl. If anyone could guide a lawyer through that process... it would be you!
LOL....but I have to laugh at the thought of their being any "fat" left over. There is never any. I'll give you one example of the USPS, but there are five for every one thriving that is failing. Even when we dump copious amounts of funds into programs we DON'T do it right. We rank extremely low in education although we spend approximately 100g on each child- low ranked in health care although we spend billions every year- er even have a very high infant mortality rate (higher than some non industrialized countries!)
Money into programs doesn't equate good quality programs in this country.
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