Can't get a job if you are a smoker!!!
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I'm a "Fat dude" - http://fatcomputerguy.com - And imagine my surprise that I was once told that I would not be able to get a desk job because there wasn't "enough space", or so they told me. Interview process went great over e-mails, resume submissions and phone interviews etc. but they changed their tune once I walked into the office and met the HR person face to face.
Um, they are the most discriminated. It's easier to discriminate overweight because it's assumed that most are on blood pressure/heart/cholesterol/ etc medications. So they "predict" they will already be spending more for insurance. Smokers compale in comparison when it comes to employment discrimination. I would say they are more at the bottom of the discrimination list while "weight" is way up there.
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If nicotine addiction gets classified as a disease, then it may be protected under ADA guidelines since "reasonable accommodations" can be made and smoking does not interfere with job performance. (There are some statistics that show smokers take more sick days.)
That's an interesting way of looking at it.
I am confused are you saying this is true?
as far as I am aware I do not think this is legally allowed is it?
I would think there would be major lawsuits?
When I was making my comparisons I was just picking any medical problem. I mean are we going to pre-screen for any medical problem before hiring someone now?
Drugs I understand but anything else should be offlimit, except certain jobs that need you to be medically fit like firefighter, police and so on
I havent read the whole thread, but just my $.02 on the above:
I think it may be legally allowed, and if it isnt, Im sure there are loop holes that make it so. If an insurence company can jack the price of your premiums because your a smoker and thus, a higher liability, then it would follow that an employer could decide not to hire you based on that same logic, especially if they are paying for part or all of your insurence.
And btw, (off topic kinda) if you understand screening for drugs, but nothing else... do some research. You will find that stastically, more jobs are lost, more job related injury, more workers comp cases, more lawsuits, more tardiness, more call-ins, and more days lost at work, are due to ALCOLHOL than any other drug or disability. So what is it we should be screening for???
My best,
-VP
WOW! I can't believe that an employer could deny a job on the basis of nicotine in the system. What if your partner or roomie whatever smoked, and you tested positive for nicotine? It's a legal substance! I understand a life insurance adjusting prices for smokers, but a job?!?
I don't know if any of you have seen Gattaca, but holy s**t!
Next thing you know they'll be doing DNA tests as pre employment tests.
Makes me sick.
I don't know if any of you have seen Gattaca, but holy s**t!
Next thing you know they'll be doing DNA tests as pre employment tests.
Makes me sick.
Believe it or not Vape, they cant do DNA tests as pre-employment. It falls under Invasion of Privacy laws. ...... in a cup so it can be screened for molecules floating around inside your body, ironically, does not. And that makes me sick.
My best,
-VP
Being discriminated against and proving you're discriminated against are 2 different things.
Until you've been fat, or pregnant and job hunting, you really can't know what it's like.
I can remember being young and naive and thinking there was no racial discrimination anymore either, until I witnessed it myself. My boss tossed a resume in the trash because he said the black girl who just applied 'wouldn't fit in' in our place of business.
Another place I worked the manager always accused the black employees of stealing when there were things missing.It happens all the time, but if there are not witnesses to testify to it, document it, and back you up, it's very hard to prove and win a case.
When I was fired from a job for being pregnant, the EEOC told me the company was too small to have to comply with EEOC guidelines.
The next place that hired me let it slip later they wouldn't have hired me if they had realized I was pregnant.
I wasn't hiding it, they were just stupid.If you think every time someone breaks the law they get their @$$ sued off you're mistaken. They get away with it all the time.
Obesity is the next biggest killer next to smoking. 8-o
That's why fast food is the next big tobacco.
Veering OT, but I don't think it's just fast food that makes people fat though. It's convenience food in general. Packaged food, instant everything, people who don't actually cook, but just warm things up or dump things out of boxes and cans.
Then our more sedentary way of life contributes to the problem.
People used to work harder to make food and they had more physical jobs. I think blaming fast food is kind of misguided considering some of the stuff people used to eat before. Cream, whole milk, butter, fried foods...our grandparents ate some high calorie stuff and they weren't fat. But they didn't sit at desks.
Now everyone is expected to eat rabbit food because we don't do physical work anymore.
Then our more sedentary way of life contributes to the problem.
People used to work harder to make food and they had more physical jobs. I think blaming fast food is kind of misguided considering some of the stuff people used to eat before. Cream, whole milk, butter, fried foods...our grandparents ate some high calorie stuff and they weren't fat. But they didn't sit at desks.
Now everyone is expected to eat rabbit food because we don't do physical work anymore.
I'll take the detour
Fast food markets to small children in ways that would make big tobacco flush with jealousy. I don't exactly disagree with you, people are more sedentary however fast food is utter hell on the system because it's all processed to death (you actually have to eat more to get basic nutritional requirements filled.)
You can make essentially the same food at home using decent ingredients and none of it is going to be nearly as harmful to you as the fast food versions.
Fast food markets to small children in ways that would make big tobacco flush with jealousy. I don't exactly disagree with you, people are more sedentary however fast food is utter hell on the system because it's all processed to death (you actually have to eat more to get basic nutritional requirements filled.)
You can make essentially the same food at home using decent ingredients and none of it is going to be nearly as harmful to you as the fast food versions.
thats because it shouldnt be but is due to loopholes. im a guy and have shoulder length hair and im asked to cut it, I think thats sexist but they can do it, same thing here unfortunately. and fortunately there are ways around a nic test just as there are ways around a pot test
a real simple way for them to not be ...... is if you smoke you cant get insurance, my last job didnt want to hire me because of the same reasons and i didnt want health insurence anyways, so i signed some paperwork saying i wouldnt apply for it. if thats an option for you then go for it, however i was part time so the fact that i couldnt get benifits ANYWAYS had alot to do with i think
also id quit if i had to deal with me without nicotine
That IS what they would be doing if they were indeed looking out for their employees, the thing is that keeping the insurance carrier is the path of least resistance and least cost in a capitalist nation
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on being overweight and discriminated....yes, it does happen.
I was denied health insurance because my profile had a weight cutoff, and I surpassed it by a bit...they were happy to insure the rest of the family, of course...I told them to stuff it...I've also been to interviews where you get a good rapport over the phone or via email...only to walk into the business for a formal, sit down. It's all in the eyes of the interviewer when they take that first look at you....its a look I can read a mile coming. Its the look that says: "Oh, S**T! We can't have THAT in our office!" And its based on that first, split second visual of one person seeing another....the reverse of "love at first sight."
and, to veer farther off topic....the big food conglomerates once put out a study of marketing to children....bringing in lifelong consumers programmed early to recognize their brands and be loyal consumers throughout....one part of this study was named "the nag factor," where they discussed how to make the product sooooo appealing to the children that they would, indeed, nag their parents until they gave in.
Shameful, isn't it?
I was denied health insurance because my profile had a weight cutoff, and I surpassed it by a bit...they were happy to insure the rest of the family, of course...I told them to stuff it...I've also been to interviews where you get a good rapport over the phone or via email...only to walk into the business for a formal, sit down. It's all in the eyes of the interviewer when they take that first look at you....its a look I can read a mile coming. Its the look that says: "Oh, S**T! We can't have THAT in our office!" And its based on that first, split second visual of one person seeing another....the reverse of "love at first sight."
and, to veer farther off topic....the big food conglomerates once put out a study of marketing to children....bringing in lifelong consumers programmed early to recognize their brands and be loyal consumers throughout....one part of this study was named "the nag factor," where they discussed how to make the product sooooo appealing to the children that they would, indeed, nag their parents until they gave in.
Shameful, isn't it?
Not that I'm for/ or against the policy, but it's not fair to raise the insurance premium of hundred's of employees to accomodate one employee. That being said. This falls into the same category as raising tobacco tax whenever they feel like it. We don't get to vote. Smoking is now being projected as wrong and immoral and shameful. Whenever the majority deems something as wrong, it becomes acceptable (to them) to ....., whine and shun those partake in the act. People like to whine and control the acts of others. As smokers we have always just smoked our cigarettes and minded our own business(which is why they're getting away with it).
As for the job application if u admit to smoking they'll say you're not qualified, if you lie they'll fire you for that. I would ignore it or lie and tell them I chew.
As for the job application if u admit to smoking they'll say you're not qualified, if you lie they'll fire you for that. I would ignore it or lie and tell them I chew.
Found this interesting post... it is regarding PA... but interesting still:
ADA Amendments may Open the Door for Nicotine Addiction Claims : Pennsylvania Labor and Employment Blog
ok... two interesting links on the county website
http://www.occompt.com/index.php?op...e&id=114:jobs&catid=40:departments&Itemid=123
http://www.occompt.com/index.php?op...=149:benefits&catid=40:departments&Itemid=136
It appears that their no-tobacco use went into effect in Feb of 2008. I did find an application for employment that notes that as of Jan 2009, they would be testing for nicotine. I can find no-where on their website where the county commissioners changed the law to make nicotine an illegal substance for use in the county of Orange.
I am stumped.
ADA Amendments may Open the Door for Nicotine Addiction Claims : Pennsylvania Labor and Employment Blog
ok... two interesting links on the county website
http://www.occompt.com/index.php?op...e&id=114:jobs&catid=40:departments&Itemid=123
http://www.occompt.com/index.php?op...=149:benefits&catid=40:departments&Itemid=136
It appears that their no-tobacco use went into effect in Feb of 2008. I did find an application for employment that notes that as of Jan 2009, they would be testing for nicotine. I can find no-where on their website where the county commissioners changed the law to make nicotine an illegal substance for use in the county of Orange.
I am stumped.
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Well I will say a few things, since I started this thread. Yes it is a government office, but not completely in that the "clerk of the court" is actually an elected official (and the head of all of the employees, except for state-Like State Attorney, Public Offender and yes, judges) The clerk is in charge of hiring and firing all other employees from each department.
As far as not hiring fat people, I also have that strike against me in that I am about 80 lbs or more overweight. While working at the clerks office, they asked me if I wanted to participate in a wellness/nutrition/diet program at the "wellness center" which was our little clinic for all government employees. I tried it, I lost a few pounds, everything was terrific. Problem was, they made it impossible to maintain. As a smoker, I was only given an hour for lunch, and two 15 minute breaks (which were strictly adhered to as they had a clock and a sign out sheet) If I wanted to use a 15 minute break to smoke, I had it down to a science (quickly get out the door, smoke two, come back in, use the potty, and back to work, in 15 minutes.) With an e-cig, I could have walked around the building twice, while puffing away, and used the bathroom and still puffed away, and even puffed away at my computer. I would not have been so "crazy" right before running out for my nicotine, and I would have been a lot more productive, and even healthier. I could have forgone running outside to smoke, but instead climbed stairs for 15 minutes. Lots of possibilities there. I can also add that I snack less with an e-cig, and maybe would have lost weight if given the opportunity.
I have no idea why people discriminate based on weight, but science has already labeled us unhealthy due to heart disease, diabetes, blood pressure, cholesterol, fatty liver disease, stroke, etc.... And big pharm, has always come up with something to "cure" obesity: phen phen, meridia (costs about 150 a month), sequestor (makes you poo all over yourself, lipitor, crestor, plavix etc... All aimed at keeping an unhealthy fat person healthy. I don't need any of those, my cholesterol was 156, my blood sugar is 110 all the time, my blood pressure is 110/76, my liver is fine (after stopping straterra), etc... I am just a fat healthy person.
Ignorance is what keeps them going....
I ended up leaving that particular courthouse after suing them for a back injury I sustained while working there. I am 5'2" and they put me in a desk made for someone 6'2" which of course caused me to raise my chair to work, and my legs dangled, causing my discs to herniate!! Talk about unhealthy. They wouldn't do anything to fix the problem either. They also basically forced me on psychotropic drugs in order to dumb myself down to continue working for them.
I had hoped Orange County Clerk of Courts would have been different, but of course it wasn't. They always find something !!! The lack of productivity is truly evident in that it took nearly 3 years for me to get a divorce, and it took a whopping 6 months for the Judge to actually sign an order. Maybe if they had more e-smokers, more work would get done?
I don't know what it is... but I think them preventing anyone from putting a legal substance into their body should be illegal. It would be like them finding out you had the marker for breast cancer and not hiring you because you "may" get breast cancer. ( I actually have heard of some companies not hiring because of this)
Sad very sad!
As far as not hiring fat people, I also have that strike against me in that I am about 80 lbs or more overweight. While working at the clerks office, they asked me if I wanted to participate in a wellness/nutrition/diet program at the "wellness center" which was our little clinic for all government employees. I tried it, I lost a few pounds, everything was terrific. Problem was, they made it impossible to maintain. As a smoker, I was only given an hour for lunch, and two 15 minute breaks (which were strictly adhered to as they had a clock and a sign out sheet) If I wanted to use a 15 minute break to smoke, I had it down to a science (quickly get out the door, smoke two, come back in, use the potty, and back to work, in 15 minutes.) With an e-cig, I could have walked around the building twice, while puffing away, and used the bathroom and still puffed away, and even puffed away at my computer. I would not have been so "crazy" right before running out for my nicotine, and I would have been a lot more productive, and even healthier. I could have forgone running outside to smoke, but instead climbed stairs for 15 minutes. Lots of possibilities there. I can also add that I snack less with an e-cig, and maybe would have lost weight if given the opportunity.
I have no idea why people discriminate based on weight, but science has already labeled us unhealthy due to heart disease, diabetes, blood pressure, cholesterol, fatty liver disease, stroke, etc.... And big pharm, has always come up with something to "cure" obesity: phen phen, meridia (costs about 150 a month), sequestor (makes you poo all over yourself, lipitor, crestor, plavix etc... All aimed at keeping an unhealthy fat person healthy. I don't need any of those, my cholesterol was 156, my blood sugar is 110 all the time, my blood pressure is 110/76, my liver is fine (after stopping straterra), etc... I am just a fat healthy person.
Ignorance is what keeps them going....
I ended up leaving that particular courthouse after suing them for a back injury I sustained while working there. I am 5'2" and they put me in a desk made for someone 6'2" which of course caused me to raise my chair to work, and my legs dangled, causing my discs to herniate!! Talk about unhealthy. They wouldn't do anything to fix the problem either. They also basically forced me on psychotropic drugs in order to dumb myself down to continue working for them.
I had hoped Orange County Clerk of Courts would have been different, but of course it wasn't. They always find something !!! The lack of productivity is truly evident in that it took nearly 3 years for me to get a divorce, and it took a whopping 6 months for the Judge to actually sign an order. Maybe if they had more e-smokers, more work would get done?
I don't know what it is... but I think them preventing anyone from putting a legal substance into their body should be illegal. It would be like them finding out you had the marker for breast cancer and not hiring you because you "may" get breast cancer. ( I actually have heard of some companies not hiring because of this)
Sad very sad!
LOL I had hair halfway down my back, thick blonde and very very curly hair. I used to wash it everyday, and put it up in a clip until it dried. They actually created a RULE to prevent me from having my hair up in a clip. They said "no wet hair" at work. They defined wet hair as "looking wet, moist, or not completely dry" I was written up for having wet hair, so then I tried something. I washed it, blew it dry with this scrunch spray stuff that made it look wet and curly, but it was indeed dry and very crunchy. I went to work, and my supervisor called me in and had a write up prepared. I said my hair isn't wet and she raised her voice before reaching out and grabbing part of my hair only to realize it was indeed dry. I went down to HR and hoped to get her into trouble for grabbing my hair, but they did nothing.
The next day I showed up with all of my hair gone... cut into a short shaggy curly afro. (I donated my hair to locks of love) I walked in and the entire department clapped lmao. I don't understand the stupididty of some people!
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