Can't get a job if you are a smoker!!!

[WendyM]

This is a fabulous idea! And... if we can promote greener electricity technology... wow! Imagine if all at once an area converted homes to solar panels? How inexpensive it would be to convert a large area, how much solar electricity could be generated and how many jobs could be created. (Obviously certain areas would fair better with wind, water etc).

You haven't paid an electricity bill until you have paid one in the dead of winter in Indiana!

Thank you, it wasn't my original idea, but when I heard it-- it made sense.

A big selling point of the idea, for me at least, is that it would take away that "not in my back yard!!" thing that we tend to do. Instead of finding one location for a giant nuclear reactor, and forcing it down peoples throats we could have many smaller greener power stations that fit into the communities that would actually be welcomed.

 

[sherid]

Sheri - I am so sorry sweetheart. That sucks. This is the beginning of nicotine prohibition, right there... being enforced through the insurance companies since they cannot get an outright ban through the government.

AND if we sit back and allow it, it will go much much further than nicotine

 

[LaceyUnderall]

AND if we sit back and allow it, it will go much much further than nicotine

Yep. Next up is caffeine. It does exactly what nicotine does to the body... and actually a bit more as it does contribute to poor nutrition (empty calories) which can lead to obesity. We have already seen schools remove soda machines in place for water and juices... which I must say I completely agree with. However, this IS just the start. Next thing you know, they will say you have to have an id to buy caffeine. A study will be done proving that caffeine aids in cancer of this part of your body... Then, it will be all about enforcing against those who sell caffeine to kids and then there will be a bill that will take years to go through Congress but will eventually pass that is the "Save our Families from Caffeine Addiction" bill. OMG... does this sound familiar or what?

Could you imagine? You stop at Starbucks and get a coffee before work and can't drink your coffee in the car because the second hand caffeine steam could poison your child and that's child abuse? (for those who are going to tell me that this is ridiculous... I know this. But when they first introduced tobacco to the market in the mass that they did... the concerns we are seeing now were as ridiculous as this nonsense I just wrote).

I would add a laugh out loud or something but it seems kind of rude considering it really isn't that funny that our country is like this.

Edit: And to bring this full circle to the OP... imagine not only are you tested for nicotine, but caffeine too!

 

[CharlesMaples]

You should get a really smart lawyer(oxymoron? lol) and fight this. Set the precedent- bring out the big guns and new studies that found obesity related issues are now becoming the leading cause of death in the US. Find some other smokers/nic users at work and make it a class action.

hasn't this already been ligitated already

 

[Tallgirl1974]

hasn't this already been ligitated already

I dunno. I know we have smokers rights groups, and people have won lawsuits against cigarette companies. Lets start a nicotine rights group. lol
Obesity is just now taking over smoking as the leading cause of death- so it couldn't have been argued before?

 

[Tallgirl1974]

Yep. Next up is caffeine.

I dont understand how something found in things we eat can be also discriminated against? Cant caffeine, heck nicotine, show up in our system just by eating certain foods? Say you realllly love chocolate. Or potatoes.

 

[Nulli]

Umm...and how do you keep the sample at body temp?
I can only think of one way to do that and it would hurt to walk.....

Is it legal or not? I'd go with not. It constitutes fraud.

I use to have to take the whiz quiz yearly when requalifiing for specific duty at work (& was subject to randoms, but never was called up for that). The room was swepped to ensure it was completely empty, and we had to remove everything we had - purses, coats, jackets, outter layers of clothing that may have hid containers and depending on what the person was wearing,they had to give consent to a pat down, just to make sure nothing was hidden.

Sounds like some companies take it more seriously than others.....

To keep it warm you use those hand warmers that you break open and they warm your hands up.

If a persons job is a pilot, bus driver, sure drug test. Otherwise it's an invasion of privacy.

 

[enrogae]

I agree with one of the previous posts -- I do not want the government telling me what to do. I certainly do not want them having more controlling agencies than they already do. This is all in the wrong direction. The government was never meant to tell me what to do insomuch as I didn't infringe on the rights of another.

I was, and am, against removing caffeine beverages from schools. I am for parents actually parenting and not allowing their kids to partake. I am for teachers teaching (oh no, aren't you asking too much from these underpaid people?!) and letting the kids know what large amounts of caffeine and sugar will do eventually. Before someone says "You can't stop your kids when they aren't around you" I will clear it up now -- you certainly damn well can. When my parents told me to do something I did it, and if I didn't I was scared ****less of what would happen should they find out. Why? Because my parents actually parented me.

What we need isn't more government... it's less. The e-cig is a perfect example of what a free-market can accomplish (even though it was developed in a Communist country). That same Communist country has already banned them in some areas (Hong Kong). Now the FDA wants to ban them. A free market with limited government interference means development, innovation and upward mobility. Socialism and socialist programs have been historically shown to promote a Stoic stagnation in the same areas or, as has been shown in China, immediately clinch down on any development or innovation that the ruling power does not directly benefit from. Sound familiar? (See other threads on FDA and tobacco/pharmaceutical tax revenues).

Suffice-it-to-say my main point is this: I want the government to leave me the hell alone unless I do something that infringes on the rights of another. That is how America is supposed to be. Sadly, that is not how America currently is. We have twisted infringing upon another's rights into "thou shalt not offend thy neighbor". Enter the birth of "political correctness." I hate to break it to this country but there is no constitutional right given to anyone in the U.S. to not be offended. Indeed, our Republic (or Democracy, if you prefer the more accepted, although incorrect, definition) was founded on the principle that everyone has the right to piss you off and offend you so long as they don't stop you from doing the same.

*sigh* Sorry for the long rant. This stuff really gets me perturbed.

 

[TropicalBob]

What happened, Enrogae, is that America a long time ago decided it shouldn't allow snake oil salesmen to ride into town on wagons, selling mystery liquids good for "what ails ya." To protect the public from unscrupulous and dangerous salesmen like these, agencies were created to approve snake oil before it could be sold. Personal freedom wasn't the issue then or now; citizen welfare was, and still is.

E-liquid is considered a new snake oil drug peddled into America from China, hawked from a new wagon called the Intenet. It is unapproved in any form, as drug or tobacco. It just .. is. And no one does any batch testing, so no one has any idea of the real contents of those vials. Warnings that should be on vials simply aren't. Many vials are not tamperproof. Many are not childproof. Some parts are small enough for a three-year-old to swallow. A mini cig's soaked cartridge, if swallowed by a child, could result in nicotine poisoning or death, depending on strength and quantity of liquid.

See the problem? Uncle Sam isn't meddling in your life; Uncle Sam is meddling with sellers of unapproved snake oil. You haven't been told not to use your e-cig; sellers have been told to stop selling them. Big difference.

So, you tried it, you liked it, but the fact is there are regulations in place that must be met by all who would sell such stuff. And, so far, not one seller has met those regulations.

 

[Vicks Vap-oh-Yeah]

Enrogae, you have the right to be enraged at the disaster our government has created "on our behalf."

I agree with your post....and many others will, too. We need to have our rights back. Allow those who wish to build a new business with the sweat of their brow to do so without sharing the profits 50/50 with the government. That will get us out of this economic slump, our national and personal spending problems, and do a great deal to deflate the anger that all free-thinking Americans are feeling..... The more they try to protect us from ourselves, the angrier the average American gets. Right now, we are dry tinder, awaiting the spark.

We need less government.....we need fewer dollars in Washington, and we need honest politicians (surely and endangered species if ever there was one!!!!).

 

[WendyM]

I am for parents actually parenting and not allowing their kids to partake. I am for teachers teaching (oh no, aren't you asking too much from these underpaid people?!) and letting the kids know what large amounts of caffeine and sugar will do eventually. Before someone says "You can't stop your kids when they aren't around you" I will clear it up now -- you certainly damn well can. When my parents told me to do something I did it, and if I didn't I was scared ****less of what would happen should they find out. Why? Because my parents actually parented me.

Oh you are assuming that most parents actually know what to teach their children, how to teach them and what discipline (not punishment, real discipline) actually is?



It's not the teacher's job to teach about good diets, dental hygiene, caffeine, tobacco or any other substance (unless it comes up in health class)-- that is the parents job. Honestly, it doesn't really matter what a teacher says in school if the lessons aren't reinforced at home. It's all very good and well to show that broccoli and juice are better than McCruddy's french fries and a Coke-- but if McCruddy's is what mom and dad shovel in their faces then it's just a great waste of time.

 

[enrogae]

What happened, Enrogae, is that America a long time ago decided it shouldn't allow snake oil salesmen to ride into town on wagons, selling mystery liquids good for "what ails ya." To protect the public from unscrupulous and dangerous salesmen like these, agencies were created to approve snake oil before it could be sold. Personal freedom wasn't the issue then or now; citizen welfare was, and still is.

E-liquid is considered a new snake oil drug peddled into America from China, hawked from a new wagon called the Intenet. It is unapproved in any form, as drug or tobacco. It just .. is. And no one does any batch testing, so no one has any idea of the real contents of those vials. Warnings that should be on vials simply aren't. Many vials are not tamperproof. Many are not childproof. Some parts are small enough for a three-year-old to swallow. A mini cig's soaked cartridge, if swallowed by a child, could result in nicotine poisoning or death, depending on strength and quantity of liquid.

See the problem? Uncle Sam isn't meddling in your life; Uncle Sam is meddling with sellers of unapproved snake oil. You haven't been told not to use your e-cig; sellers have been told to stop selling them. Big difference.

So, you tried it, you liked it, but the fact is there are regulations in place that must be met by all who would sell such stuff. And, so far, not one seller has met those regulations.

The thing is I don't want the government looking out for my "welfare" unless it is from that of an opposing nation or anyone actually infringing on my rights (like trying to bomb me or burn my house down). I do not have the right to not be an idiot and face the consequences of being said idiot. If I buy snake oil -- that's my fault.

The problem, as I see it, is that Uncle Sam is meddling in my life, in more ways than just e-cigs. They are trying to tell us not to use our e-cig (the FDA has already said this and they are trying to ban it...check out the upcoming legislation to ban the use/ownership of e-cig devices in Long Island, NY. They are trying to prevent us from using them...). I have no problem with further testing... but even when the results come if it causes death in 1 year of use -- I still don't want the government to tell me I can't have it.

I respect your opinion, Tropical Bob, but I also respectfully disagree.

And Wendy -- I agree with your post 100% with one exception. I don't care if some parents don't know how to rear their children. This is a natural phenomena that has occured for millenia -- it's called natural selection. If they make bad children who can't cut it, then they shall not survive in society (or at least, not well). This is as it should be. Again I would offer another of my favorite quotes (if you can't tell, I enjoy good quotes that poignantly drive home a point...)

"Government should not do for a man what he can, and should, do for himself." -- Abraham Lincoln

 

[Data4]

I only got as far as the posting of the FAQ from the ACLU regarding lifestyle rights. Now, I feel kinda funny, because normally I'm at odds with the ACLU for doing goofy things like taking a NAMBLA case, or all these silly measures to censor certain Christmas decorations on public property. However, in this instance, I stand fully with them. I don't need my employer or anyone else telling me what to do or how to live my life unless that advice is solicited or my actions and behavior serve to deprive another of their life, liberty, or property. In all other instances, they can keep out. Period.

-D4

 

[Tallgirl1974]

I only got as far as the posting of the FAQ from the ACLU regarding lifestyle rights. Now, I feel kinda funny, because normally I'm at odds with the ACLU for doing goofy things like taking a NAMBLA case, or all these silly measures to censor certain Christmas decorations on public property. However, in this instance, I stand fully with them. I don't need my employer or anyone else telling me what to do or how to live my life unless that advice is solicited or my actions and behavior serve to deprive another of their life, liberty, or property. In all other instances, they can keep out. Period.

-D4

Yeah but who gets to choose? Its all or none or it becomes a slippery slope.

 

[orlampagal]

Depending on how much it costs, you may be able to purchase your own family plan through a provider like bcbs or aetna (florida has a low cost insurance program) maybe it is worth looking into?

 

[CharlesMaples]

I stand fully with them. I don't need my employer or anyone else telling me what to do or how to live my life unless that advice is solicited or my actions and behavior serve to deprive another of their life, liberty, or property. In all other instances, they can keep out. Period.
-D4

You dont have to do anything your employer says

 

[Khandurian]

I saw someone mention earlier about having to "cut their hair" because they were male. Fortunately, it cannot be enforcedd, even in Florida. Atleast until religion is banned.

I am a male, and I have hair past my shoulders. I still work at my same job with hair past my shoulders. Been working for the past 5 years at my job. One day, a corporate memo came out that all males must have hair above the ears and above the shoulder.

I was told if I didnt cut my hair by the end of the week I would be terminated. I informed them that I am not cutting my hair, and if you wish to terminate me, go ahead, and I'll see you in court. My hair is part of my religion. It is against my religion to cut my hair. I still work here, and I don't mind tucking my hair under my corporate issued ball cap!

Whats my point? Maybe someone should create a religion that makes it so that vaping is a religious act. Then you can't be fired/hired for nicotine content in the body!

 

[malyden]

Maybe someone should create a religion that makes it so that vaping is a religious act. Then you can't be fired/hired for nicotine content in the body!

The Order of the Wholey Technofoggers here I come

 

[tescela]

Smokers aren't a "protected" class of people, so they can discriminate based on that.....stinks, but just another way for society to harass smokers.

Actually, this is not correct. In several U.S. states, it is specifically illegal for employers to discriminate against smokers.

Check your state laws.

Better idea: don't work for any company that is so ignorant that it would discriminate against smokers.

 

[tescela]

The thing is I don't want the government looking out for my "welfare" unless it is from that of an opposing nation or anyone actually infringing on my rights (like trying to bomb me or burn my house down). I do not have the right to not be an idiot and face the consequences of being said idiot. If I buy snake oil -- that's my fault.

The problem, as I see it, is that Uncle Sam is meddling in my life, in more ways than just e-cigs. They are trying to tell us not to use our e-cig (the FDA has already said this and they are trying to ban it...check out the upcoming legislation to ban the use/ownership of e-cig devices in Long Island, NY. They are trying to prevent us from using them...). I have no problem with further testing... but even when the results come if it causes death in 1 year of use -- I still don't want the government to tell me I can't have it.

I respect your opinion, Tropical Bob, but I also respectfully disagree.

And Wendy -- I agree with your post 100% with one exception. I don't care if some parents don't know how to rear their children. This is a natural phenomena that has occured for millenia -- it's called natural selection. If they make bad children who can't cut it, then they shall not survive in society (or at least, not well). This is as it should be. Again I would offer another of my favorite quotes (if you can't tell, I enjoy good quotes that poignantly drive home a point...)

"Government should not do for a man what he can, and should, do for himself." -- Abraham Lincoln

I agree with you, but I also agree with Tropical Bob when he argues that e-juice providers should IMMEDIATELY do themselves and us a huge favor by changing the juice containers to tamper-proof, childproof bottles that are fully, and appropriately, labeled.

This simply needs to happen NOW. The failure of juice suppliers to implement commonsense self-regulation is giving the FDA the basis for stepping in to regulate the juice.