If the CDC thinks THC carts contain PG or VG, they've got more wrong than even I thought possible.
CDC Exposed For Botched Vape Research
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The CDC knew fairly early on in the 'panic' that there was considerable evidence pointing to THC, Vitamin E and Black Market products. Don is right though they have a strict set of rules they are supposed to follow. The issue is they don't always follow these to the letter, in order to get information out to the public, like the Lettuce scare for instance.
The most damning thing is: Why didn't they tell what they knew, earlier, in this case. It could possibly have saved lives, would have saved a lot of illnesses.
The most damning thing is: Why didn't they tell what they knew, earlier, in this case. It could possibly have saved lives, would have saved a lot of illnesses.
I am not an insider, so opinions are my own, etc.
The thing I do keep in mind though is that the CDC is not a single-person or single-mindset organization. Like all large organizations, there are inward facing parts and outward. The inner research teams probably are very methodical. Question is, is the outward facing side, the side that makes public statements (and has some say in future legislation) equally as scientific and objective?
The thing I do keep in mind though is that the CDC is not a single-person or single-mindset organization. Like all large organizations, there are inward facing parts and outward. The inner research teams probably are very methodical. Question is, is the outward facing side, the side that makes public statements (and has some say in future legislation) equally as scientific and objective?
Exactly. Not all possibilities are equal. They could have said that it was probably THC carts with a small chance that it could also be some nicotine vapes, that would have accurately reflected the information they had. Instead they made very little distinction. Maybe they were covering themselves so that if it turned out to involve nicotine vapes they couldn't be criticised, or maybe their motives were more sinister or just careless or whatever. Either way they are smart enough to have understood the consequences of the way they chose to talk.
What is scary is even though the truth is out people are still dieing from the same thing. Another bad part is some have even gone back to smoking cigarettes and quit vaping.
What's obvious to me is:
1) The CDC didn't know crap about e-cigs when they started their investigation. They learned as they went, and refined.
2) They had a bunch of people lie to them and it left a big hole in their decision tree/grid.
3) They had to wait for results, and make sure they used the proper methods for analysis (and they had issues with that too).
This was all clearly a bit outside of their usual-and-customary stuff. Not lettuce and e-coli. Or flu.
1) The CDC didn't know crap about e-cigs when they started their investigation. They learned as they went, and refined.
2) They had a bunch of people lie to them and it left a big hole in their decision tree/grid.
3) They had to wait for results, and make sure they used the proper methods for analysis (and they had issues with that too).
This was all clearly a bit outside of their usual-and-customary stuff. Not lettuce and e-coli. Or flu.
Agreed with all that but they should have said something earlier. The Death in Georgia was clearly preventable, if the lady had the information they had she many never have continued was Black Market THC Carts. As you van tell I have an issue with them, they can't pick and choose when to release information. They didn't do that with so many things, all the food scares, Ebola the list is endless. It's beyond my comprehension, heads must roll for one or the other! You Can't have your cake and eat it too.
What's bothering me so much is....how it crosses "areas".
So not just the CDC. But Congress. FDA. Governors.
This narrative is like some sociological mass rumor, but I can't pin it down.
BT money?
BP money?
Sure, that's there too. BUT WHO, exactly.
And I go all the way back to the many "acts" and the Fire-safe-cig B.S. that didn't work, and ....
IDK.
I'm not even wearing my tinfoil hat. I need to go get that....
This all smells like some kind of common consensus plot or something. Maybe innocently arisen maybe well fostered by money and influence. "Save the children" and all that.
There's real concerns. Health concerns, for all of it. Addiction concerns.
But we're consistently being LIED to. That doesn't help.
So not just the CDC. But Congress. FDA. Governors.
This narrative is like some sociological mass rumor, but I can't pin it down.
BT money?
BP money?
Sure, that's there too. BUT WHO, exactly.
And I go all the way back to the many "acts" and the Fire-safe-cig B.S. that didn't work, and ....
IDK.
I'm not even wearing my tinfoil hat. I need to go get that....
This all smells like some kind of common consensus plot or something. Maybe innocently arisen maybe well fostered by money and influence. "Save the children" and all that.
There's real concerns. Health concerns, for all of it. Addiction concerns.
But we're consistently being LIED to. That doesn't help.
I get what you're saying but the CDC did say people should stop vaping everything. I might be remembering wrong. I didn't listen to them and neither did some dead people. Again I don't like the CDC for alot of reasons but people that were vaping black market products knew or should have known the risks of what they were doing.
Google CDC budget cuts and decide for yourself what's going on there.
Not say'n that you might Not be Right.
But an Easy Trap to Fall into when Policy Makers do something that one Doesn't Like is to assume that they Don't Know what they are doing.
For Me, I would find it Next to Impossible that someone like the CDC didn't/doesn't know just about All there is to Know about e-Cigarettes.
Given How Long e-Cigarettes have been Mainstream.
And Given the High Profile that e-Cigarettes have had for the Last 3 Years.
A lot of times in government the people that are setting policy are the least informed about what they are making policy on. Also a lot of times they just don't care because they know everything there is to know about everything. A lot of the people in power don't listen to what they are being told by the people doing the work. I work for the military and it's a huge problem there. I see it all the time where higher ups say this is how things are going to be done. The people doing the work say no it won't because it can't be done that way. Then they get mad when it doesn't happen like they said even though they are told it couldn't be done. I hope that makes sense.
Not say'n that Can't be True also.
But I think that Most Senior Leadership in Government knows what is going on for the Big Issues. They might not be Fully Versed in the fine minutia of something like e-Cigarettes. They Don't really need to be. Or they may Not act as if they do. But they see the Big Picture.
More so, they know the Potential Repercussions of their Actions. Or in the Case of CDC, it's Lack of Action. And it's Purposely Confusing association of "Vaping" with what was causing people to get Sick and people using Nicotine in e-Cigarettes.
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Dr. Siegel is an ex insider, he worked for two years at the CDC, and he's been extremely critical of their handling of this. As he says, when there's an outbreak of illnesses and deaths from Romaine, they don't tell everyone to stop eating all lettuce and cabbage. There's also always a small percentage of outliers in any outbreak, yet they don't let that muddy the waters when it comes to salmonella or listeria.
This was written by Siegel at the end of September:
The Rest of the Story: Tobacco and Alcohol News Analysis and Commentary: CDC's Failure to Demand Urine THC Testing of All Outbreak Patients is Inexcusable and is Putting the Entire Nation at Risk
And here is one from November 11th:
The Rest of the Story: Tobacco and Alcohol News Analysis and Commentary: CDC and Anti-E-Cigarette Researcher Still Clinging to Faint Hope that Traditional E-Cigarettes are Causing Outbreak
Also, there has been grumbling for years that the CDC, like the FDA, works for the companies that pay them, rather than the public.
How Conflicts of Interest Have Corrupted the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) - Global Research
Johnson & Johnson and the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation tend to be big contributors to the CDC Foundation, and in case anyone is unaware, Nicorette and Nicoderm=Johnson & Johnson=Robert Wood Johnson Foundation=Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids.
This was written by Siegel at the end of September:
The Rest of the Story: Tobacco and Alcohol News Analysis and Commentary: CDC's Failure to Demand Urine THC Testing of All Outbreak Patients is Inexcusable and is Putting the Entire Nation at Risk
And here is one from November 11th:
The Rest of the Story: Tobacco and Alcohol News Analysis and Commentary: CDC and Anti-E-Cigarette Researcher Still Clinging to Faint Hope that Traditional E-Cigarettes are Causing Outbreak
Also, there has been grumbling for years that the CDC, like the FDA, works for the companies that pay them, rather than the public.
How Conflicts of Interest Have Corrupted the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) - Global Research
Johnson & Johnson and the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation tend to be big contributors to the CDC Foundation, and in case anyone is unaware, Nicorette and Nicoderm=Johnson & Johnson=Robert Wood Johnson Foundation=Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids.
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