NEW CDC STUDY OFFICIALLY DEBUNKS ‘VAPING AND FORMALDEHYDE’ MYTH

[Letitia]

I always find it funny that a bunch of ex-smokers (the WORST thing we could have done to our bodies) have become a bunch of puritans now. I'm waiting for someone to issue my scarlet letter.

This.

 

[Opinionated]

While I don't profess to have ANY idea what y'all are talking about, I'll repeat something I've said to others privately.

I always find it funny that a bunch of ex-smokers (the WORST thing we could have done to our bodies) have become a bunch of puritans now. I'm waiting for someone to issue my scarlet letter.

I can't decide on "W" (wattage), "V" (variable), or "P" (power). I don't look great in that color so it's important that I choose wisely.

Maybe I should do a contest, or a poll, or something. I'm leaning towards the "V", because most here already know that I love the "V".



I've got kinda wide shoulders too, so I'd appreciate it if the letter can be appropriately sized, proportionate to my dimensions. Just sayin'...

Fear of death.. period.

That is tthe answer as to why. They finally realized they had one foot in the grave then freaked out and decided they don't want to die.

Personally that's why I tried vaping in the first place even though I didn't think it would work.. I couldn't breathe, I literally felt like I was being suffocated and it SCARED me to death that I was going to live however many more years of life I have left being unable to breathe..

I'm scared of cancer too but I'd much rather die of cancer then die feeling like I'm drowning or suffocating.

Just saying.. when faced with the kind of death you might die, in a very real fashion you decide you would like some measure of control over your death, and the method thereof.

 

[Opinionated]

Yes, please forgive my first post; it was early, I was tired, didnt think too much and this was what I remembered.
The total mean is essentially meaningless. Too many variables. Each Coil and setup is slightly different. Makes no sense to calculate a mean when over half your readings are below the limit of quantification.

We analysed mostly very basic atties. Although I had the opportunity to test one of mine as well.
The test were done at my workplace; not at home. Its an accredited lab, which has multiple official checks a year. We´re not just a funny bunch of amateurs.
Unfortunetly; I cant just roam the lab and do whatever I want to; so no, I cant test multiple RTAs with multiple types of wires/builds on 10 different Watt settings. Believe me, I would if I could.
Also, none of our data is open to the public nor will it ever get published. We also don't do blood tests.
All I can provide here is the data we came up with; which is also consistent with other measurements that were published; barring "dry burn studies".
And honestly; this topic has been done to death and for all I care its solved. It was solved years ago. It doesn't take 50 different labs to do and validate such a trivial analysis; which frankly, it is. This is not sophisticated science.

IF your E-Zig works as intended; the amount of Aldehydes produced is very low; to the point that its mood to even discuss it much further.



Oh yeah. I calculated it with 1Mil; though, so the 12ppm is still correct.

I understand there are a lot of variables - although I think the studies should be done for the benefit of never smokers using several of the common variables..

That said, your not providing anything particularly helpful to the community.

It's not a real study that is following methods that can be verified and investigated.. it's not open to scrutiny, it's not open to other labs verifying your findings..

Your asking us to simply take your word for it. Which is lovely but we can't do that - friends or not.

We can take what you say into some level of consideration if we really trust you and your not just some guy on the internet, but we don't know anything about your testing to know if we are repeating it or even resembling it in the real world when we vape, and we don't know how that is affecting us physically in real world vaping in order to assess risk to vapers.

And the ability to assess risk is exactly why do the tests in the first place.

 

[Qaay]

Woot? I thought that formaldehyde myth was debunked by the research of dr. Laugesen... back in 2008... 10 years ago .

http://www.casaa.org/wp-content/uploads/10-30-08-RuyanCartridgeReport30-Oct-08.pdf

 

[DPLongo22]

Fear of death.. period.

May as well fear taxes too then, eh?

Silly vapers.

 

[Zakillah]

I understand there are a lot of variables - although I think the studies should be done for the benefit of never smokers using several of the common variables..

That said, your not providing anything particularly helpful to the community.

It's not a real study that is following methods that can be verified and investigated.. it's not open to scrutiny, it's not open to other labs verifying your findings..

Your asking us to simply take your word for it. Which is lovely but we can't do that - friends or not.

We can take what you say into some level of consideration if we really trust you and your not just some guy on the internet, but we don't know anything about your testing to know if we are repeating it or even resembling it in the real world when we vape, and we don't know how that is affecting us physically in real world vaping in order to assess risk to vapers.

And the ability to assess risk is exactly why do the tests in the first place.

I have a pragmatic viewpoint here. I know our measurements are correct. Its not like we don't have any comparisons to what other labs find, because we did a couple of ring trials.
And to see what garbage data sometimes comes out and calls itself a "study"; I don't think its the word slapped on the data that really matters.
To me that's enough. You believing me or not makes no difference.
Although I´d prolly not pose as a Chemist of all things, if I wanted to fool people on the internet.
Its not my intent to be particularly helpful to the community. That goes way too much into politics and there are people out there much better suited for the task then I am and still fail to get through the politicians thick heads and corruption.


The thing is; measurements on E-Zigs don't really have tried and proven methods. Such a thing does not exist. What little verified methods there are, are all geared towards ~2013 style atomizers, with very tight airflow and tiny coils which will burn at 10 Watts.
So every lab testing more modern atties has no bureaucracy to stand on and must pull their own method out of their hat.
And there are essentially endless methods/possibilities to choose from.
What atty? What mod? Temp Control? If so, what temperature? What wire? What type of juice? How many Watts? How much puff volume? What puff interval?
On that basis; you´ll be very hard pressed to find any study that will truly satisfy you; because it doesn't exist and wont for a very long time. My guess is its never going to happen, honestly.

 

[stols001]

I DO fear taxes.... I have to collect all my receipts! It's not pleasant.

Kind of looking forward to death at times. At least it will be something different.

With that said, I don't vape to die. I also don't believe that a certain amount of non-TC vaping is necessarily sure to shorten my death, I mean a) I agree that we don't have ALL the info yet on vaping, period. My life is surely more pleasant as a vaper.

I will say, the TC thread offers a lot more than "Just vape TC" or "vaping non TC will kill you. The "manager" of that thread gave me several great suggestions on lowering temps in my vape. It was helpful, and when I use TC, I rarely get kicked into temp protect mode anyway, which is reassuring. And possibly, in part due to following some of those other recommendations, most likely.

No need for black and white thinking in my opinion, especially when all the science isn't in yet on vaping period. I will say, that thread also got me into RTAs more quickly since I knew they'd be helpful for TC mode. Another reason I am grateful for it.

But, I prefer to think out of the box, I used what was helpful... for me, as I progressed.

I think the information should be given to new vapers so they can decide... But, with a LOT of context, too. Otherwise, I agree it can put people off vaping and cause fear. It has that potential.

Anna

 

[DPLongo22]

On that basis; you´ll be very hard pressed to find any study that will truly satisfy you; because it doesn't exist and wont for a very long time. My guess is never, honestly.

^^^^^^

 

[DPLongo22]

I DO fear taxes.... I have to collect all my receipts! It's not pleasant.

Kind of looking forward to death at times. At least it will be something different.

With that said, I don't vape to die. I also don't believe that a certain amount of non-TC vaping is necessarily sure to shorten my death, I mean a) I agree that we don't have ALL the info yet on vaping, period. My life is surely more pleasant as a vaper.

I will say, the TC thread offers a lot more than "Just vape TC" or "vaping non TC will kill you. The "manager" of that thread gave me several great suggestions on lowering temps in my vape. It was helpful, and when I use TC, I rarely get kicked into temp protect mode anyway, which is reassuring. And possibly, in part due to following some of those other recommendations, most likely.

No need for black and white thinking in my opinion, especially when all the science isn't in yet on vaping period. I will say, that thread also got me into RTAs more quickly since I knew they'd be helpful for TC mode. Another reason I am grateful for it.

But, I prefer to think out of the box, I used what was helpful... for me, as I progressed.

I think the information should be given to new vapers so they can decide... But, with a LOT of context, too. Otherwise, I agree it can put people off vaping and cause fear. It has that potential.

Anna

Simply put, if you like it, vape it. If you don't like it, don't vape it. If there's anything about vape that scares you, it'd be highly advisable that you quit completely.

If you're looking for assurances or guarantees, buy a bubble.

 

[Letitia]

I can honestly say that nothing I read will make me give up my vape, maybe tweak it a bit at most. The alternatives are unacceptable for me.

 

[ScottP]

Woot? I thought that formaldehyde myth was debunked by the research of dr. Laugesen... back in 2008... 10 years ago .

http://www.casaa.org/wp-content/uploads/10-30-08-RuyanCartridgeReport30-Oct-08.pdf

There are two very important things to note about that study. First, when they tested the straight PG they only heated it to 80C (176F) which is a VERY low temp, and well below EVERY ecig on the market. Second, the full puff tests were conducted on a very LOW powered cig-a-like, so again I highly doubt that thing was even reaching the upper 300's F much less 450+F (which is where the aldehyde production seems to begin).

The actual temp is the PRIMARY factor as to whether or not formaldehyde will be in your vapor or not.

Doing some more research I found this article talking about Funeral Home workers getting ALS from exposure:
Dangers of formaldehyde lurk in everyday products

Here are 3 more government documents about formaldehyde exposure in general, but NOT related to ecigs:
Formaldehyde and Cancer Risk

https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/drywall/docs/WhatYouShouldKnowaboutFormaldehyde.pdf

Facts About Formaldehyde | US EPA

 

[zoiDman]

Woot? I thought that formaldehyde myth was debunked by the research of dr. Laugesen... back in 2008... 10 years ago .

http://www.casaa.org/wp-content/uploads/10-30-08-RuyanCartridgeReport30-Oct-08.pdf

What, exactly, does this study Debunk for those who do Not Use a 2008 Ruyan e-Cigarette?

It seems like a Waste of Time to retype it, so I'll just Quote something I posted in Another Thread...

I think when one Evaluates any Study, or Study Data, that Validity and Applicability should be considered 1st.

Because a Study, or Study Data, can be Valid. But Non-Applicable. Or it can be Applicable but the Study, or Study Data, might not be Valid.

Someone can Read the results that Mike has found and say that they Do Not Apply to them. But that does Not Diminish the Data's Validity. It just Doesn't apply to them.

And I know that Mike would be one of the 1st Person to say that the Results he has found Apply ONLY to the Hardware, e-Liquids and the Parameters that he used to do the Tests.

I believe that Inferences can be made regarding Similar Hardware/e-Liquids/Parameters using what has been shown. But they are just Inferences.

JMO, but it seems like where the Blowback Occurs with some members is when They Want to imply that Conclusions are being made about All Vaping from a limited set of Testing.

And that just Isn't Applicable (or Intended) in this case.

 

[ScottP]

IF your E-Zig works as intended; the amount of Aldehydes produced is very low; to the point that its mood to even discuss it much further.

Oh yeah. I calculated it with 1Mil; though, so the 12ppm is still correct.

Keep in mind the OSHA requirements for daily (8 hour) exposure is only 0.75ppm (granted that is constant exposure, not periodic puff exposure) but at 12ppm that is 16 times higher.

Disclaimer: I am not trying to make any claim as to safety or potential harm. I am simply pointing out the relationship between your findings and OSHA set levels of daily exposure limits.

 

[Opinionated]

Nvm..

 

[Opinionated]

Keep in mind the OSHA requirements for daily (8 hour) exposure is only 0.75ppm (granted that is constant exposure, not periodic puff exposure) but at 12ppm that is 16 times higher.

Disclaimer: I am not trying to make any claim as to safety or potential harm. I am simply pointing out the relationship between your findings and OSHA set levels of daily exposure limits.

I would like to add something here, that measuring the air in a building that is x cubic feet is far different than measuring pure vapor straight off a coil.

First, that pure vapor straight off a coil is undiluted. When i, my husband, and my son (who is a direct to lung vaper) vape in the real world that pure vapor is mixed with air when taken into the lungs, or, on top of the pure vapor air is added to the lungs with each and every puff.

No one who vapes is breathing pure vapor for 8 hours of their day.. absolutely no one, it's not even a fair comparison to make unless it's your goal to scare an ignorant person away from vaping with big numbers.

 

[ScottP]

No one who vapes is breathing pure vapor for 8 hours of their day.. absolutely no one, it's not even a fair comparison to make unless it's your goal to scare an ignorant person away from vaping with big numbers.

(granted that is constant exposure, not periodic puff exposure).

nuff said

 

[ScottP]

Do you know what happens to water full of lead when it gets boiled? The lead in the water can actually become more concentrate.. NOT at all helpful for people about to drink water with dangerous levels of lead in it..

You are correct, I should have said distill the water to remove any heavy metals, and VOC's.

 

[ppeeble]

SOOOOO... VAPING PROVED COMPLETELY HARMLESS as long as you take 15 breaths between tokes. Or... ECIGS PROVED SAFE as long as you vape for less than 5400 seconds a day ...

Keep in mind the OSHA requirements for daily (8 hour) exposure is only 0.75ppm (granted that is constant exposure, not periodic puff exposure) but at 12ppm that is 16 times higher.

Only joking but a classic example of how data can be manipulated to suit an agenda.

 

[Opinionated]

nuff said

No, not "nuff said".. there is plenty to be said.

There was NO earthly reason to make THAT comparison .. NONE. It's an incorrect correlation and you said so yourself, but you said it yourself in a manner that you hoped would be overlooked by those "big" numbers found in vapor coming off a coil.

That's like scare tactics 101 taken from b.s. click bait so-called news articles.

You may as well just tell people "here, I'm trying to scare you".. because that's all the use your words have to the average vaper.

 

[ScottP]

SOOOOO... VAPING PROVED COMPLETELY HARMLESS as long as you take 15 breaths between tokes. Or... ECIGS PROVED SAFE as long as you vape for less than 5400 seconds a day ...


Only joking but a classic example of how data can be manipulated to suit an agenda.

We really need a facepalm emoji. Since we don't: