CE2 R4 M-series filling problem

[Adik Ted]

I couldn't go back to the weaker draw of m402 vaporisers & carts now. These cartomisers are a bit of a hassle though. Yesterday I boiled 10 new ones, washed them out, dried them with a hair dryer and then dry burned each of them. Contrary to earlier posts, an m402 automatic is fine for dry burning provided it isn't one of those ridiculous evos that allow a draw every two minutes (it does require a lot of blowing on the LED end though). The entire procedure took me around 2 hours although much of that was waiting time.

Getting that 3rd ring out without damaging the inner device takes a bit of practice but I can now do it quite easily and quickly. After filling the cartomiser I re-insert that 3rd ring upside down and leaking isn't the problem I made it out to be earlier when I had obviously damaged ring 3 getting it out. I then just insert the white plug and discard ring 2 altogether. I may try some of the other suggestions made above at a later date (thanks rosco) but I'm quite happy with this for now. Apparently the primer is used to put that tight 3rd ring in. How much easier it would be if you could just buy them without the 3rd ring and accompanying primer especially if they replaced the current plug with a tighter single plug that stretched all the way down to the inner device. There doesn't seem to be much evidence of these alleged primer free cartomisers on the forum at least.

So far I've found they work fine for about 5-10 refills after which the draw gets weaker and less consistent. I've then went through the boiling, rinsing, drying and dry burning procedure with them again and got a bit more life out of them but they do seem a bit weaker second time round.

 

[billybc96]

Thank you, great long term experience info on using a CE2 R4 cartomizer on an m-series battery. Doesn't sound too bad at all. I do currently use automatic Intellicig m402 batteries with a 1-2 minute cutoff after too long a draw (which to them is apparently only about 5 seconds). I've never had a serious problem with that feature before, and have often thought that is why my m402 batteries have lasted me so long so far (6-7 months). From what you've just told me I'm happy I'll be replacing them very soon with the stainless steel models from LiteCigUSA. I've already ordered those and the cartomizers (standard size, they are out of XLs) from Vapor Junction. It sounds like the XL cartomizers tend to have more performance problems anyway, so not having had a chance to order those doesn't bother me much. I'm probably better off that way.

Having to throw my cartomizers away after the 15th or so use due to weaker performance will be a major change for me. I'll get more vapor time out of each refill though, compared to regular cartridges. I really like the sound of that. Typically, regardless of whether I'm using regular or XL cartridges, I only get around 1 1/2 hours or so of constant use out of my cartridges before they need to be switched out. Usually I make them last much longer only because I regularly top off the atomizer with 1-2 drops of e-liquid from a small bottle I carry around with me. It'll be nice to get away from that. The relatively small useful liquid capacity of m401 cartridges has always been their biggest drawback for me. The XL version cartridges only helped very little with that (the increased capacity is only worth another 30 minutes of vapor). At least topping off the atomizer has always been easy enough to do.

I can't wait to get all this new gear in a few days. It'll be fun to check out. I've been in the mood for a slight vapor experience change. Gonna check out some 12mg Halo Torque56 as well, and maybe even get some more 6mg eJoker from Backwoods Brew. Already have some FreedomSmokeUSA 18mg Rocking Chair Special Blend on the way. I love all of those e-liquids, and I think they are all typically 50/50 PG/VG blends (with some maybe being a little heavier on the PG). Do you think those will work out alright in one of these CE2 R4 cartomizers? I've read that they prefer PG, or at least don't prefer pure VG all that much. That seems to have as much to do with the difficulty of using thick VG in the recommended narrow syringe needle to fill the cartomizer as it does with anything else. I have read that using heavy VG makes these cartomizers more difficult to clean out as well, and possibly not last through as many refills as they might otherwise. Any truth to that?

 

[Adik Ted]

billy, I've only ever used pure VG in them as I'm allergic to PG.

I've also only used the regular cartomisers. I'd like to try an XL as they're only half an inch longer but hold 3 times more juice.

 

[billybc96]

I understand the XL cartomizers only hold twice the juice, but that would still be a lot more than the standard length, but I really have read that a lot of people have trouble getting them to work as well as the standard length models. Maybe someone can enlighten us on that? These things don't cost a whole bunch, so maybe I'll just buy a 5-pack and see for myself...whenever (or if ever) they are back in stock.

So, you've had no problems at all using VG in these cartomizers? I've read that VG residue builds up more quickly on the wick, shortening the useful life of the device, but I think that is partly what the dry burning method of cleaning is meant to at least partly overcome. I guess if you're using 100% VG successfully, I should have no problem using a 50% mix.

Just out of curiosity, since black paint was already pealing off one of my m402 batteries, I pealed the rest of it off to see how a stainless steel battery (though not polished) might look. I was also curious how other people (like my wife) would respond, since it is kind of a radical look in some ways. I reality, it apparently isn't radical looking, and in fact it is almost a plain sort of look. Much like with the black finished e-cigarettes, to a lot of people a stainless steel e-cigarette in your hand (especially when you are hiding the LED glow and vapor cloud) just looks like a pen, or even a Smart Phone touchscreen pointer (especially in a small package like the m402 is). Pretty cool, really. I like the look. I just hope I'll get as much life out of the LiteCigUSA batteries as I have out of the old Intellicig ones.

 

[Adik Ted]

I just hope I'll get as much life out of the LiteCigUSA batteries as I have out of the old Intellicig ones.

50% of the batteries I had off intellicig were malfunctioning straight out of the box. They all functioned but 5 secs to the two minute cut off was a maximum rather than a standard. It's no wonder they last so long when you can't even use them most of the time. The ones I buy direct from China are infinitely better. I can even ask people if they want to try one without thinking there's an 80% chance they'll take a couple of draws and ask with a puzzled look on their face "WTF has happened?".

 

[billybc96]

I don't know, I never had any big problems with the cutoff feature of the Intellicig batteries, but I've always tended to take short draws on them. When they have cutout on me, it has been an annoying surprise, and I'm looking forward to getting past ever having to deal with that again. It seems to me that an automatic cutoff time twice as long (and more consistent) would have made more sense. In other words, maybe 10 seconds before cutoff, rather 5 seconds. The battery then not letting you draw on it for so long (2 minutes or so) also seemed like too long a wait after automatic cutoff. 2 minutes is a long time to wait when you want to take another puff. Long enough that I'd usually just switch out the battery rather then wait. People unaware of the cutoff feature would naturally assume the battery was out of juice and needing a recharge. I guess it just depends on how you use these things. For some it's a big pain, but others may hardly even notice. I guess I fit in the latter group.

 

[billybc96]

I finally just got my package of CE2 R4 cartomizers from Vapor Junction. Nicely packaged for what it is worth, but for the life of me I don't understand why so many of our suppliers use such over-sized boxes for such small shipments. Oh well, whatever, the shipping method works. I was eager to start using these things right away, and am using my first one right now. I've had little experience when it comes to using cartomizers before, so keep that in mind when you read the rest of this post.

Filling the thing using the standard method wasn't all that hard, but it does help to have read dozens of posts on the subject here at ECF before attempting to do so (including this thread right here). Luckily I had a small syringe for the job I got for free months ago from an Intellicig e-liquid order. I'm not sure using one of my other larger syringes would have worked at all with the one little flexible tip you get with your cartomizer order from Vapor Junction. After using the vaporizer for a short period of time I tried topping the device off and reassembling the device per Adik Ted's recommendation. I used a small paperclip with one end slightly bent and curved by a small pair of pliers. Turned out to be not that difficult to get the 3rd (innermost) ring out. It is semi-clear, and fairly flexible, but it is in the tube pretty tight. Care has to be taken so as not to damage the ceramic cup assembly, so I used only a very small but sharp curve on the end of the paperclip to achieve the task. Momentarily I was worried, but it ended up popping out without too much trouble. You just have to be carefully at what angle you are leveraging the paperclip. (You will have to leverage it using the cartomizer tube outer wall.) I used a vinyl coated paperclip, which I then cut the vinyl coating off of at just the very tip where I then bent it to use as a hook. Having the vinyl coated portion of the paperclip intact where it made contact against the cartomizer's outer wall probably helped keep the paperclip from sliding around and doing unwanted damage. The hook in the paperclip only has to be a very few millimeters in length to be effective.

Now that I've topped off and have reassembled the cartomizer, using only the reversed 3rd inner ring and the white end plug piece (with the 2nd inner ring completely removed from the assembly), I am now trying to figure out if I like these things or not. Right now it is hard to say. The vapor volume production and flavor delivery don't seem much different from a standard atomizer/cartridge arrangement. My one much older m402 battery isn't really performing as well as it used to, so I switched to my slightly newer battery (still waiting on a new battery set delivery from LiteCigUSA). It is still hard to say if either one is any better than the other as far as basic performance goes. I fully expect the cartomizer to keep going a lot longer without having to be switched out or refilled, and that is the biggest overall difference so far.

Flavor taste seems a bit different, though I can't put my finger on the exact difference. I think the cartomizer delivers more throat hit, but I can only distinctively feel the difference in my nose, not my throat so much. Leakage has not been a problem at all so far, in either the 2 or 3 ring configuration. I will probably get more out of these cartomizers when I get my m402 batteries that don't have the automatic cutoff feature many people find annoying.

A fully assembled m402 with the cartomizer attached is only about 1mm longer than a standard cartridge/atomizer setup on an m402, maybe even less. The stainless steel finish on the cartomizer very nearly matches the one on the stainless steel battery I currently have, which makes for a very non-analog cigarette looking package. The look of using the stainless steel finished cartomizer on my black m402 battery actually looks alright. I kind of even like it. Oh well, too late to order black batteries instead of stainless steel right now. I'll have to try these cartomizers out for much longer than the last hour or two I've been using one if I'm going to be giving an honest opinion on them. The big thing will probably be how much vaping I get out of one before it has to be refilled. This one I'm using now I filled with liquid all the way up to the top of the inner ceramic cup that holds the atomizer coil. I still needed a fairly small syringe head to do that, but I didn't need the tiny flexible one that came with my cartomizer 5-pack. I could've probably dripped too, but with the cartomizer at an angle. I don't think I would have not gotten quite as much e-liquid in that way, but I may just need practice.

As a side note, I also got my 12mg Halo Torque56 today, but have not tried it with the new cartomizers yet. Instead, I'm using it with a 3-piece m601 I don't use much these days, mainly because it is a ridiculously oversensitive automatic. It does produce good vapor though, just not particularly incredible taste. I like the Halo Torque56. Previously I had tried a small 18mg sample size of it many months ago. At the time I thought it was overpowering, but that it had potential. I have always wanted to try it in a lower nicotine level. Apparently the lower nicotine level helps. Unlike Halo's Freedom e-juice, which is perhaps more sweet by comparison, the Torque56 is a bit more nutty in flavor, and also more tobacco-like overall. It is still a bit sweet, as a tobacco flavor probably should be, but the nuances are different. It also has more woody flavor components, and I think it is maybe a bit less chemical-like in flavor than the Freedom e-juice, even without steeping.

Anyway, that's more than enough for now. I'll get back to you folks later.

 

[billybc96]

Aha! I see now, at least in 2-ring modded form, that the cartomizer will leak some if you store it with the cartomizer end facing straight down. Now I'll have to try that with an unmodified (3-ring) cartomizer and see what happens. Maybe I can play around with using the 2nd ring instead of the reversed 3rd ring? Draw did seem better just using 2 rings instead of 3, I'd like to keep that better draw somehow, without any leakage issues. Any further recommendations?

 

[billybc96]

Okay, it appears using 3-ring standard arrangement doesn't lead to any leakage issues, so that is something at least. My cartomizer box came with 5 little squares of material that look like they can optionally be used somehow in the cartomizer body, but I have no idea exactly. Anyone know much about using those? Any benefit?

 

[billybc96]

Now I've switched to just using the 2nd inner ring, reversed, as an e-liquid seal, with the 3rd inner ring completely removed. So far I don't seem to be having any leakage problems that way, and I get somewhat better airflow for a better draw. Dripping down the inner sides of the cartomizer tube isn't a very good way to fill these things, as it is still too easy to get globs of e-liquid going down the center air tube. Not a complete disaster if that happens. If it does, you can blow the inner air tube dry much like you might blow out a regular atomizer from the thread side. Only with one of these cartomizers, you have to blow on it from the other side, OUT the thread side. It also takes a lot more blowing for a lot longer to get the job done. You don't want to have to do that more than once if you don't have to.

With the 3rd inner ring out and removed, hopefully never to return (but we'll see about that), filling the cartomizer with a more standard syringe tip is much easier. I'd still say using a syringe of some kind is the better way to go. At least without the 3rd inner ring, you don't have to mess with using that tiny syringe tip through those tiny holes, and it is more clear to the naked eye when your cartomizer's reservoir is full. At this point, I've still only been playing around with my first cartomizer out of the 5-pack. For all I know, all the other cartomizers might be even more of a royal pain to deal with.

I'm still not completely sold on using these things with an m401 series battery. With at least one of the inner rings removed, the draw is slightly better than that of a 3-piece m402. I think the vapor production of these cartomizers is less by comparison, though perhaps only by a small margin. Flavor delivery is almost identical. Very hard to make out much difference there. The 2-piece design setup you get when using a cartomizer instead of an atomizer and cartridge is more solid feeling in your hand, but the in mouth weight is a bit heavier too. That didn't bother me, but it might bother some other folks.

The only thing the CE2 R4 cartomizer has going for it for me at this point is a much bigger e-liquid capacity (at least double that of what I'm used to). I'm not sure that is enough to justify the slight increase in upkeep cost, hassle of refilling, and modest loss of vapor production, along with questionable long term durability. I'll keep try these out, maybe eventually doing a PTB modification down the road, but my first experiences with these devices just really hasn't blown me away.

 

[Adik Ted]

The fact you didn't go through the cleaning and dry burning might affect your performance. Alternatively, it may just be a weak cartomiser. I did have a couple I gave up on because the throat hit was a bit tame. Re throat hit, I often take one or two primer puffs before taking a long draw and often (but not always) get a great throat hit that way but that won't be an option with your intellicig. For me the wicking was dreadful if the 3rd ring was left in its original place. After I discovered that fact, I started off discarding the 3rd ring and replacing with TWO ring 2's. Leaking happened fairly regularly this way. It seemed a lot less with only the 3rd ring reinsterted upside down but it still happens especially if the cartomiser is stored plug end down (as you discovered).

I think the material is just for mopping up unwanted juice at either end of the cartomiser after filling.

PS Before trying these I was using intellicigs ecopure juice for a long time (bought a 1 litre bottle very cheap when they sold it through royalsmokers for a short time). When I'm talking throat hit I should point out that I'm comparing libertyflights very high juice on these cartomisers with ecopure very high on a standard vaporiser and cartridge model. Since the latter is like inhaling lukewarm washing up liquid my concept of throat hit might be too influenced by my ecopure "experience". After that I suppose pretty much anything might seem like a good throat hit.

 

[billybc96]

My experience with Ecopure was limited to their 12mg Mild, which was very lackluster in every department, at least compared to almost everything else I've ever tried.

I will certainly get around to trying out my other CE2 R4 cartomizers soon. I've by no means given up on these yet, but I am a little disappointed so far. I kind of like that the vapor is delivered a little warmer than I'm used to. I'm not getting any bad taste, but I suppose other elements of the cartomizer I'm using right now might not be working as well as they should.

Though not giving up, I think I will go ahead and pickup some more m401 atomizers and PTB cartridges, just in case. My old atomizers are probably not at their best anymore anyway, and I haven't gotten new cartridges in ages. (I guess that's one of the great things about m-series cartridges, that you hardly ever have to replace them.) Thank you for the help. I'll bust out another one of these cartomizers as soon as I get home.

 

[billybc96]

I'm on my second CE2 R4 cartomizer right now. First thing I noticed was that the wick within the coil element was white, and the coils looked metallic in color. On my last cartomizer, the wick and the coil were black straight out of the sealed package (though the unit itself appeared otherwise clean). This is the same blister pack, but this second cartomizer out of it is clearly different in how "clean" it looks inside by comparison. Unusual, I've read about this sort of thing, but never expected to experience it myself, especially since Revision 4 has been out awhile now.

I also just got my new LiteCigUSA m402 batteries, automatic, in polished stainless steel. They certainly are bright and shiny, with blue LED tips, but they were also lighting up occasionally as I was getting them out of the shipping envelope, which indicates to me they might be a little oversensitive compared to my old Intellicig batteries. I tested them with good results in front of a loud speaker at home, but I won't know if they will be okay sensitivity-wise until I test them while driving in my car. Unlike the Intellicig batteries, the LiteCigUSA batteries clearly have no automatic cutoff feature, at least not that I can tell. Seems like I can draw on them pretty much continuously if I wanted to. Pretty cool. I just hope they pass the car vibration and noise sensitivity test.

As I'm typing this, I now have one of the new batteries and the 2nd cartomizer screwed together. Refilling the 2nd cartomizer was a little easier than the first one. The fit of the inner seal rings was not as tight. I just have it reassembled normally. No reversed or removed seal rings. The stainless steel finish on the cartomizer is a bit darker (almost more gray) than that on the battery, but that's okay. Gives a slight (barely noticeable) two-tone look. Nice looking setup, but maybe not as much character as other colors and combinations might give. At least you don't have to worry about your paint finishing rubbing or chipping off. I guess the aesthetics of such things are very much a matter of personal opinion. The silver cartomizer can look good combined with other colors, so you can use them with whatever you like without it looking "weird". (But I guess that's a matter of opinion too, eh?)

This 2nd cartomizer is performing better than the 1st one did. Taste is better. Vapor production is better. Even the internal e-liquid capacity of the thing seems great, though externally it is exactly the same size. The draw is also fine, though it is still different than what you get when using a regular cartridge and atomizer instead. (I'm probably just getting more used to it now.) I'm still thinking that flavor delivery is below that of a standard setup, but it may simply be "different" in nature, and nothing more or less than that. Hard to say at this point. Even with all of its ring seals back in position where they belong, I am having some leakage from the device. I may have just overfilled it, so I'm not going to worry about that right now. I'm just going to try to enjoy the device while I sit at the computer and get some "real" work done.

I don't think I will be trying any modifications of this setup anytime soon. I will update if I have any further developments to report, like how cleaning and using these over and over again works out. The e-liquid capacity on these things, even the regular sized ones, is pretty amazing. I want to try a full one tomorrow and see how long it lasts through my usual day compared to using cartridges.