Chest Xray-Lungs & Vaping

[DDD]

Sorry for way too many posts here, but a correction: "the point is that it is probably less bad than smoking."

Also, most manufactured nicotine actually comes from tobacco and therefore all nicotine substitution carries some small amounts of carcinogens.

 

[swedishfish]

I vape because I can't quit smoking analogs and it's safer than analogs. My mother has COPD, couldn't quit and vapes. All of her doctors are fine with it. Every single one of her doctors at Univ of PA that I have talked to is fine with her vaping. I'm not talking about as opposed to quitting which obviously they would recommend to everyone but for a long term smoker that can't seem to quit and is suffering health issues because of it. These are people that aren't going to be around for long term studies regardless. What annoys me is why the same doctors that are fine with patients vaping, don't speak out or encourage others in the same condition to do so? If it's not saving lives, it's certainly adding years on to smokers lives. Yet, ban after ban goes up and you don't hear even a peep from the medical community.

 

[txtumbleweed]

I know from my own experience how bad smoking is and how much better vaping is than smoking. I smoked off and on for 55 actually 60 years since I inhaled my first cigarette at age of 10. I have been diagnosed with moderate to severe emphysema and before I started vaping I used two different inhalers everyday, I couldn't walk up a flight of stairs without stopping for extra breath, I coughed a lot, I wheezed so bad when I lay down it was hard to go to sleep. Now I only occasionally use my inhaler, I can carry my grandchildren up the stairs without running out of air, a couple of weeks ago I was running up and down the driveway teaching my grandson how to ride a bike, I never cough, I haven't had a cold in 18 months, I no longer wheeze like I did. So no matter what the FDA or anyone else might say I know I'm 1000 times better off vaping than smoking.
I am planning on getting another x-ray to compare next year when I go back to the VA for my annual checkup. I know I've done irreversible damage to my lungs but I also know how much better I am now than I was 18 months ago.

 

[mwa102464]

Thanks DDD for your input on those X-Rays, I wasn't sold by them, there appears to be a different look on the inside of the body in the before and after. I would like to stay on topic here, any others that have any proof by X-Ray of any before and after photos is great as well as any knowledge about the long term effects on the lungs please post. I have to agree with DDD that vaping cant be a long term thing with no effects and it is = a best seen as an extended harm reduction path to quitting smoking, that will also need to be quit at some point. Probably not reasonable at all to think you can vape a lifetime scott free.

 

[Del Boy]

Well i have a two year plan. Vape for two years.

6 months at 24mg. 6 months at 18 mg. 6 months at 12 mg. 6 months at 6mg. Then stop.

I may, after the two years, allow myself odd weekends of vaping 0mg. Occasions when i visit the pub maybe.
Or parties ( i don't go to that many now anyway).

There is absolutely no rush with this. I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna take it nice and slow. And most importantly i'm gonna ENJOY IT.

Big thanks for the Doctors input there,

 

[Stownz]

I can attest to an increase in lung capacity after a year of vaping. I have some really insane mods, and can push rediculous amounts of thick vapor with no coughs. Let my friends try a few of my set ups, and they almost throw up. When I started vaping, I was about 3ml a day. Now I can go over 10ml. I do 2 miles a day, and that was the biggest tail tail sign that something positive was happening.

My lungs were fried though when I started. Almost 3 packs a day, constantly had a cig hanging from my mouth. 15 years of all the chemicals from the shop + smoking that heavily was destroying me. I had damn near permanent resperatory infections, and a smokers cough from hell. About 6 months in, it was almost completely gone. 9 month mark I had really started to master DIY mixing, and the cough completely went away. Missed flue season completely this year !

Maybe I'll die from some strange chemical in one of the 100 flavors I keep on hand (my only real concern is those chemicals). But at least I won't die coughing up blood, and no one around me suffers any ill effects.

 

[player30]

Good discussions here, and no ugly attacks. I knew we could get along!!

 

[Levitas]

Good discussions here, and no ugly attacks. I knew we could get along!!

I don't think I like your tone!!


I kidd I kidd

 

[phonedude]

Great thread and lots of good information.

Most of us can agree that we feel much better. That's good enough for me.

I smoked long before the dangers of THAT were really discussed much. And if that happens down the road so be it. Course I am probably older than some so it may not concern me quite as much. It sure is nice to be able to take a deep breath.

 

[cozzicon]

Here's a link to one posted on another site

I had never seen that- thank you for posting.

As an aside, in the realm of general improvements. I used to be one hell of a singer. And I've been singing a little lately. Over the last year there have been huge improvements. Last night I noticed the return of a full octave, and I no longer cough at the top or bottom of my range.

 

[Astatine]

Great thread mwa102464 ! Thank you for starting it. And thank you DDD for your subject expert feedback (I for one couldn't decode the significance of an X-ray if my life was depending on it).

I would like to add a comment on the studies about PG exposure to support DDD's statement that the effect of chronic exposure from vaping are unknown, I have seen three types of info:
1- about fog machines. It assumes that there is an acute exposure of about a couple of hours, once in a blue moon and then gives plenty of time for recovery. Not comparable to vaping.
2- Kids exposed for about 8 to 10 hours to a room with PG mist added for a "lysol" effect (disinfectant). The concentration of PG was very low and the study was very limited in time. Not comparable to vaping.
3- drug testing such as the one linked in this thread. It assumes that the exposure will be equivalent to one puff a day two or three times a week (who is vaping like that?). That's because, it is the expected dosage of the drug for which it is used.

In a nutshell, these results are encouraging since there was no obvious adverse effect, but they are far from giving a good picture of what the type of exposure leads to when vaping.

On the other hand, we know a lot about what smoking will get us. Yeay vaping!

 

[ScooterGirl]

I've never had a chest xray to compare but I do know that I can now easily hike trails that only two months ago would have left me gasping for breath and my heart pounding a million beats a minute. Because of this my dog is eternally grateful to PV technology...or maybe not. There is one particular trail that runs up the side of a waterfall that I love but that he isn't too thrilled with!

 

[Cil]

I was in Hospital 5 weeks ago, I was asked if I smoked and said no. I told them I'd had stopped smoking on 010110, which is true I haven't smoked a cigarette since then.

I have alway had a very good lung function, didn't really suffer from a smokers cough and never was out of breath, but it would have caught up with, it always does.

I had a chest ex-ray and was told everything was OK, well actually I wasn't really told anything so I assume everything was OK, I also had about 6 ECGs over the course of 3 days and was told I could go home.

The diagnosis was viral Pericarditis I was given high dose aspirin.

Now I don't know the moral of this story is, but I am fine now.

 

[BILLB OKC]

not anything important to add except I had back surgery thrusday and was allowed to vape all i wanted while in the hospital.
shocked me.

 

[THE]

I don't know the answer to that entirely, as using PG as a binder in a simple spray inhaler-may be different than vaporizing it along with oil (flavor) and alcohol. I'm not arguing a point, just saying that I don't know. Nobody does. It is not the same.

I haven't really cared to heavily study the matter-as a 2 pk a day nonfilter smoker for 29 years-i know this has got to be better-along with no smell, ashes etc. Good enough for me right now.

I posted because those films give the appearance of some kind of magical change in the lung- and people shouldn't be mislead to think that that is what it shows. Its like comparing an underexposed picture of clouds, with an overexposed picture of the same clouds-one might look completely cloudy and the other much more clear.

When you think about it in terms of chemicals in e-cigs being present in regular cigarattes, anyway, and the delivery method not being a combustible source.. you would be hard pressed to conclude that e-cigarettes are anywhere near as harmful.

Combustion of any organic material is known to produce carcinogens.. As an example, eating overcooked or burned foods has given people stomach cancer.

You're not painting your lungs with a gummy tar. See not only is all of the "bad stuff" in cigarettes, but it persists, because it disables the lungs natural defense/cleaning mechanisms (the cilia) .. and then it coats everything with a very difficult to remove oily tar .... Cigarette smoke goes in and STAYS in ..

I'm not saying that the chemicals in e-cigs are not absorbed into the blood. But there are five or so instead of four thousand - and vapor gives the body a fighting chance while cigarette tar does not..

 

[THE]

BTW-no one should delude themselves into thinking that vaping is free of any bad effects. We haven't talked at all here about the nicotine itself-we know that nicotine is a toxin, and is related to hypertensive and other cardiac risks (in any form-gum, patch etc). People argued in the 50s-60s that they didn't know that cig smoking was bad-because the science was not there at that time. We certainly shouldn't have needed hi falutin' scientific studies to show that inhaling smoke all day long for a lifetime is bad. Likewise-everyone should suspect that inhaling juice (forgetting the nicotine points above) with its colorants, oils etc all day long for years will be bad. The point is that it is probably less bad than some.

This may be some heresy here, and realize that I love vaping more than sliced bread...but this path of vaping might be best seen as an extended harm reduction path to quitting smoking, that will also need to be quit at some point. Probably not reasonable at all to think you can vape a lifetime scott free.
There is an old addage-if a medication has zero side effects, then it has zero effects.

I agree with you about nicotine. But you have to be careful speaking against nicotine, on here, as it is not always well received. To me it is a very powerfully addictive drug that people will kill themselves to get... and just because people can function in society while using it, that does not make it any less dangerous than your schedule drugs. In my opinion.

But, if people find safer delivery methods such as vaporizing it instead of burning it, I don't think it's too much more dangerous than caffeine. I am just saying that I have seen nicotine make people smoke who didn't even like smoking any more (most smokers whether they'll admit it or not) and that has lead to some horrible deaths.

So nicotine will never be something I am a proponent of. But I'm very much convinced that there is no way in the world vaping is as harmful as routinely inhaling tar laden with tens of known carcinogens and thousands of known bad chemicals

Cigarette smoke contains tens to hundreds of times the "acceptable level for human consumption" of HUNDREDS of chemicals.

I love that quote, by the way. The if it has no side effects, there's no effect..... good one!