China imports everywhere

[Revelene]

Ok, everywhere I go I see people having issues with cartomizers, clearomizers, premade coils, etc. It's always the same issues like flooding, coils popping, coils shorted out-of-box, inconsistent resistance, etc. I've looked at these many things and have found them to be a huge issue with QA. I understand that they are being made cheap and fast offshore and imported just like many things in the US sadly... but why are there no US companies making these yet? If there are, they are not known to many many people in the vaping world.

I've gotten a lot of my friends and many people in public to switch to rebuildables... many of them have not looked back. Once people get the hang of rebuilding coils it almost comes second nature... and it is so much cheaper! I get a bit nauseated when I go to the vape shop and see someone purchase 5 replacement coils for $10.... $10! And they blow through them fairly quick by either having a few DOAs or having them all last maybe a month if lucky. I rebuild my coils every 3 days (I don't have to but I like fresh coils) and spend maybe a few cents per coil... And with rebuilding I've yet to have a DOA or short since I'm the one who does the QA and I buy USA wire (really cheap too even though it is made in the USA).

I know there is a learning curve to rebuilding so I ask... why do I not see any USA made premade coils or better QA from somewhere other than China?

The way I see it... someone needs to step it up and make easily accessible, better quality, premade coil setups. I keep seeing APV, mechanical mods, and rebuildables being made with superb quality but no clearomizers or cartomizers?

I know many people that still won't vape for this reason. They say they feel like they are buying flea market junk when buying the premade stuff... and rebuilding is not for everyone.

 

[FourWinds]

You do have a point, but a lot of stuff from China is very good too I think. There was a market near me and some guy was peddling fake evod bcc tanks (only 2 air holes is the only difference). They were so cheap (99p a go with a 2.2 coil inside) I bought a few. They're great, no leaks or anything.

 

[twgbonehead]

Well, technically China exports everywhere ;-)

But I think you're looking in the wrong direction. China does make a lot of vaping equipment that is very serviceable. Some things need improvement (drilling out airholes, new coils+wicks, etc). But a lot of people do just fine with the off-the-shelf stuff.

Vaping is still a brand-new technology. 2011-2012 saw a DRAMATIC change in the types of heads that were available, new wick and coil designs, etc. Although the pace seems to have slowed a bit lately, I'm sure there will be even newer designs that will work more reliably, and with less fussing.

I think you answered your own question when you were outraged at someone paying $10 for 5 coils. (I presume by this you meant 5 bare, unwicked coils, not wicked coils or coil heads). That's not overly high IMHO for someone doing the work by hand, and in very limited volume, in the US. And it's a very limited market, easily undercut by the hordes of people who wind their own. Manufacturers in the US are focusing their efforts in areas where they can provide added value and unique products - Juice flavors and High-End Mods.

There is a huge variety of stuff out there, from (some) surprisingly good disposable cigalikes, to ultra-high end tanks. Reo's, Provaris, etc.

If you want to complain about quality, perhaps you should be focusing on the crappy cigalikes, made (or at least distributed) by large US tobacco companies. The products manufactured in the US tend to be unique, high-end specialty products that can be sold at a profit given our high cost-of-doing-business. It's no different for vaping gear than for anything else.

 

[Revelene]

You do have a point, but a lot of stuff from China is very good too I think. There was a market near me and some guy was peddling fake evod bcc tanks (only 2 air holes is the only difference). They were so cheap (99p a go with a 2.2 coil inside) I bought a few. They're great, no leaks or anything.

Yeah, I've had many good China made products but the problem lies with QA being very poor. Last time I bought a pack of cartomizers (smoktech) I had 3 dead right out of the package out of the 5...

 

[LEDBETTER122]

I have to agree about premade coils, they do suck pretty bad. Mostly because they use standard coils, and not nano or micro coils. Then again standard coils that are rebuilt still aren’t as good as micro or nano. It's not exactly the manufacturer quality of the coils, but the coil builds itself.

 

[LEDBETTER122]

I can put the same coil in different atomizers or clearomizers and they all produce the same vape. My girfriend got a cheapo Evod plastic bottom coil tank, put a micro with cotton in it and it chucked the same vapor as my friends Kanger protank.

 

[Revelene]

Well, technically China exports everywhere ;-)

But I think you're looking in the wrong direction. China does make a lot of vaping equipment that is very serviceable. Some things need improvement (drilling out airholes, new coils+wicks, etc). But a lot of people do just fine with the off-the-shelf stuff.

Vaping is still a brand-new technology. 2011-2012 saw a DRAMATIC change in the types of heads that were available, new wick and coil designs, etc. Although the pace seems to have slowed a bit lately, I'm sure there will be even newer designs that will work more reliably, and with less fussing.

I think you answered your own question when you were outraged at someone paying $10 for 5 coils. (I presume by this you meant 5 bare, unwicked coils, not wicked coils or coil heads). That's not overly high IMHO for someone doing the work by hand, and in very limited volume, in the US. And it's a very limited market, easily undercut by the hordes of people who wind their own. Manufacturers in the US are focusing their efforts in areas where they can provide added value and unique products - Juice flavors and High-End Mods.

There is a huge variety of stuff out there, from (some) surprisingly good disposable cigalikes, to ultra-high end tanks. Reo's, Provaris, etc.

If you want to complain about quality, perhaps you should be focusing on the crappy cigalikes, made (or at least distributed) by large US tobacco companies. The products manufactured in the US tend to be unique, high-end specialty products that can be sold at a profit given our high cost-of-doing-business. It's no different for vaping gear than for anything else.

I was meaning heads.

Basically, for the price people pay $1-3 a head... they should at least work. I know people have success with them but many do not and when they run into a few problems, they go back to smoking. I have rebuilt a few clearomizer heads and they are very simple in nature. Very easy to put together. The rest of the head is metal and plastic, so, there really is no reason to be selling them for upwards of $3 a piece when the QA is almost non-existent.

I know vaping is still considered a new thing and many are just now finding out about it... I just wish things would move a bit faster and we could get better QA and more accessible items.

 

[Miata GT]

TL;DR past you keep having to buy coils. I haven't had to replace even a single coil on ANY of my clearomizers due to popping, etc. Most devices you can at the very least take the atty out of the clearomizer, rinse it in hot water, let it soak in vodka overnight, re-rinse then dry burn until the smoke and smell stops.

This will get the crud off your coil that causes the resistance to change and eventually pop. Think of it like changing the oil in your car. Yeah you can keep going without doing it but eventually you'll be replacing the engine. BTW, all coils that I can think of for popular devices are made in China, just some in are knock-offs of the better ones (Kanger, Innokin, etc.).

 

[Revelene]

TL;DR past you keep having to buy coils. I haven't had to replace even a single coil on ANY of my clearomizers due to popping, etc. Most devices you can at the very least take the atty out of the clearomizer, rinse it in hot water, let it soak in vodka overnight, re-rinse then dry burn until the smoke and smell stops.

This will get the crud off your coil that causes the resistance to change and eventually pop. Think of it like changing the oil in your car. Yeah you can keep going without doing it but eventually you'll be replacing the engine. BTW, all coils that I can think of for popular devices are made in China, just some in are knock-offs of the better ones (Kanger, Innokin, etc.).

For the price you pay for each head you should atleast be getting some better QA. I was comparing the quality to rebuildables. A good hand made coil costs cents and will last a lot longer than some China head.

That's good that you got your heads working. You must be getting them from somewhere where they are getting decent batches. The problem isn't upkeep but more QA. I've seen more people coming in with shorted heads and leaking issues than anything else.

 

[Ryedan]

I was meaning heads.

Basically, for the price people pay $1-3 a head... they should at least work. I know people have success with them but many do not and when they run into a few problems, they go back to smoking. I have rebuilt a few clearomizer heads and they are very simple in nature. Very easy to put together. The rest of the head is metal and plastic, so, there really is no reason to be selling them for upwards of $3 a piece when the QA is almost non-existent.

I know vaping is still considered a new thing and many are just now finding out about it... I just wish things would move a bit faster and we could get better QA and more accessible items.

I have not bought any heads for a while now as I'm into rebuildables. However when I was using clearomizers, I had no problems with brand name parts. Heads need to be rinsed and dry burned before they get too gunked up to save. Even the best quality parts will need this. I typically have Vivi Nova and CE4 coils last a month or longer.

What is really unfortunate is that manufacturers and retailers don't put out good maintenance information on their products.

 

[Miata GT]

For the price you pay for each head you should atleast be getting some better QA. I was comparing the quality to rebuildables. A good hand made coil costs cents and will last a lot longer than some China head.

That's good that you got your heads working. You must be getting them from somewhere where they are getting decent batches. The problem isn't upkeep but more QA. I've seen more people coming in with shorted heads and leaking issues than anything else.

If you don't think you need to clean and dry burn your hand-made coils you're mistaken. Certainly a mass-produced coil is not going to have the quality of a carefully wrapped coil for an RDA, which, BTW, is typically done with a lower gauge wire anyway.

If you are having issues with coils popping out of the box, that's a QA issue. If you are not maintaining your coils then you have made the decision to replace them periodically. Crud builds up on them as they heat up and burn e-juice. The darker and sweeter the juice, the more crud will build up faster.

Leaking is a function of the atty but also a function of the device itself. I HATE my PT2s because they gurgle, etc yet the very same head on my T3S is awesome (for a clearomizer). I have replaced all my flavor coils with cotton yarn as part of my maintenance on the coils during cleaning. This has totally eliminated any leaking problems. And, as I said, I haven't had to replace a single coil in over 3 months, although they do need to rotated and cleaned every few tanks or so.

BTW, did you state which device you are talking about?

 

[TheJakeBailey]

It's quite simple. If they were made here, they would cost a LOT more. If they cost a lot more, most people would buy the cheaper ones and hope for the best. If most people wouldn't buy them, there is no money to be made. If there is no money to be made, no one will make them.

 

[Revelene]

If you don't think you need to clean and dry burn your hand-made coils you're mistaken. Certainly a mass-produced coil is not going to have the quality of a carefully wrapped coil for an RDA, which, BTW, is typically done with a lower gauge wire anyway.

If you are having issues with coils popping out of the box, that's a QA issue. If you are not maintaining your coils then you have made the decision to replace them periodically. Crud builds up on them as they heat up and burn e-juice. The darker and sweeter the juice, the more crud will build up faster.

Leaking is a function of the atty but also a function of the device itself. I HATE my PT2s because they gurgle, etc yet the very same head on my T3S is awesome (for a clearomizer). I have replaced all my flavor coils with cotton yarn as part of my maintenance on the coils during cleaning. This has totally eliminated any leaking problems. And, as I said, I haven't had to replace a single coil in over 3 months, although they do need to rotated and cleaned every few tanks or so.

BTW, did you state which device you are talking about?

Indeed they need to be cleaned... but that is not the issue at hand. The issue is QA as I've seen too many that short out-of-box, leak because of a missing piece in the head (like an insulator, which in turn, would cause a short or not work at all), or work like poo because the coils inside are not aligned properly.

There is no device to state, this was an observation of premade heads generallized to show the poor QA for the price other people pay and yet some half-wit can go build a coil for virtually nothing on the same platform.

 

[Revelene]

It's quite simple. If they were made here, they would cost a LOT more. If they cost a lot more, most people would buy the cheaper ones and hope for the best. If most people wouldn't buy them, there is no money to be made. If there is no money to be made, no one will make them.

But... why? Wire is EXTREMELY cheap. Literally single digit cents per FOOT. The rest of the head is low-grade metal and plastic which is EXTREMELY cheap as well. Yeah, they may end up being slightly more in cost... not by much but it would be enough were people would buy the cheaper one to save a few bucks.

I know it may not happen soon, if ever... but I just hate the idea that if you buy a premade head there is a possibility of it not working and if it does work it does so in a sub-standard way... and you KNOW you are buying cheesy crud when you do...

 

[twgbonehead]

Revelene,

I guess the disconnect is that many people don't seem to have the same experiences as you do. I've bought a LOT of different very inexpensive heads from FT. CE4/5/6, EVOD types, most less than $2/ea. Also drippers, gennys, etc. A surprising favorite was their all-plastic Vivi Novas (all plastic except the base, of course) which for less than $3 each give me a great flavor.

I've had very little, if anything that was total garbage. A few items that needed some tweaking (for rebuildables, the first step is always "yank out whatever coil/wick they put on it"). Their EVODs and CE4-styles have never leaked for me (unless you screw the head on too tight, and it winds up unscrewing the inside coil head). I've never gotten a shorted or dead head, and with an occasional cleaning, get very long life from them. In fact, one of the most frustrating things nowadays is that I'm into winding my own coils, but I hate ripping apart a perfectly good one just to try to replace it with something that may or may not be better.

If you want a real power-hitting head, you have to wind your own IMHO. But for what they are, I've had very good experiences with the quality of the Chinese products. I DO read the comments before buying!!!

Your mileage may vary (and apparently does....)

I would like to know what heads you've been having problems with.... Perhaps you've just picked a bad vendor?

 

[440BB]

I have not seen many problems with Vision, Kanger or Bauway clearos and heads over the last two years. Although there is an occasional one that has an off taste or unusual resistance, they have all worked, with no missing parts. Cheap knockoff clearos and heads have often had wicking and coil problems in my experience.

If there is a QA problem, I believe it is with the bargain off brand clearos and heads, which are pretty common. Buying genuine brands from trusted vendors is the key. Imitators must resort to a lower price to get business, so the quality of materials and process have to be compromised to accomplish that.

There will always be resellers who want to squeeze a little more profit without concern for quality, and there will always be cheap crappy versions of good products. When I help friends start vaping, I point them to proven products and resellers I trust, make sure they know how to use them, and they seem pretty happy, mostly with Ego's and clearo devices. Most problems seem to be old and dirty heads, and a little additional maintenance education is all they need.

Maybe you are only hearing about the ones that have problems because they need to vent their frustration. Those who are happily vaping away have little to say. I think they number in the millions.

 

[Ryedan]

But... why? Wire is EXTREMELY cheap. Literally single digit cents per FOOT. The rest of the head is low-grade metal and plastic which is EXTREMELY cheap as well. Yeah, they may end up being slightly more in cost... not by much but it would be enough were people would buy the cheaper one to save a few bucks.

The biggest issue is that labor in China is EXTREMELY cheap. I doubt volumes are high enough for these items to make full automation feasible, so there is higher labor cost plus the added cost of better QA. It would not surprise me if that would double or triple the cost of the items depending on whose current prices you compare to.

 

[Revelene]

It could very well be a not-so-good vendor. Which stinks because there are not very many B&M stores around me. They charge an arm and a leg so I wouldn't doubt if they are knock-offs. I've actually moved onto rebuildables and haven't looked back. I just keep seeing people locally that are just about fed up with the premade heads not working correctly and going back to smoking.

To make something clear, I'm not saying that everyone is having issues that I see... I'm saying that of all the issues I see they tend to always be related to premade heads.

 

[440BB]

The cheap knockoffs can be pretty disappointing. I got a Vivi Nova copy a long time ago, and it was crap, so I never used or recommended them. I ended up with a genuine Vision Vivi Nova recently, the one without the metal tip sticking up from the head, and it has performed very well with everything but unusually thick liquids. Lesson learned.

I believe Altsmoke has opened up stores in Kentucky, and they would be a safe choice in my experience. One other option is to offer to rebuild heads for your friends if they bring the beer lol!

 

[Nikkita6]

I can put the same coil in different atomizers or clearomizers and they all produce the same vape. My girfriend got a cheapo Evod plastic bottom coil tank, put a micro with cotton in it and it chucked the same vapor as my friends Kanger protank.

That is because the Evod's base design is more conducive to efficient wicking than a Protank is. The Protank is the better looking device, but the Evod has always been the more efficient device in terms of flavor, and vapor production.