Why No big ecig mfrs in USA?

[Jaguar G]

Second, all atomizers and cartomizers are hand made in China. How many Americans would be willing to work for minimum wage (or less if possible) to spend 8 hours a day putting together cartomizers and atomizers by hand??? Hardly any.

As a (US) manufacturing engineer, I will say once the market shows it can sustain the growth it is currently having, and the FDA doesn't shut down e-cigs all together, it would be a good return on investment to design and build an automated assembly line that could crank out atomizers and cartomizers for cheap. Once the return on investment is met, the price will fall and supply will be right on track with demand. All of this is of course assuming the Chinese haven't already automated, if that's the case then they will probably hold the market and US manufactures will be hesitant to jump in since the Chinese could drop the price and make it a total boondoggle.

Also, if there are patients involved, those would have to be considered prior to any investments. Not saying that would be a deal breaker, but a major hurdle.

Of course this wouldn't be a giant job creator, just 10-20 to build and keep the machines running, a few designers, purchasing, supply chain, and distribution network. But hey, where do I sign up to do some return on investments, cost justifications, and designs?

Jag

 

[Teddy Hutchins]

As a (US) manufacturing engineer, I will say once the market shows it can sustain the growth it is currently having, and the FDA doesn't shut down e-cigs all together, it would be a good return on investment to design and build an automated assembly line that could crank out atomizers and cartomizers for cheap. Once the return on investment is met, the price will fall and supply will be right on track with demand. All of this is of course assuming the Chinese haven't already automated, if that's the case then they will probably hold the market and US manufactures will be hesitant to jump in since the Chinese could drop the price and make it a total boondoggle.

Also, if there are patients involved, those would have to be considered prior to any investments. Not saying that would be a deal breaker, but a major hurdle.

Of course this wouldn't be a giant job creator, just 10-20 to build and keep the machines running, a few designers, purchasing, supply chain, and distribution network. But hey, where do I sign up to do some return on investments, cost justifications, and designs?

Jag

I dont know how it is in other states but here If you are a new business just starting out can take a loss for 3 years. Honestly if i had the money I would invest into a assembly line just to get usa parts out there. Im pretty sure it would take less than 3 years to start showing a profit.

 

[tj99959]

People keep lamenting the outflux of manufacturing jobs from the U.S... frankly, I'm not getting why one would want his daughter to grow up to work on an assembly line packing cartomizers or sewing stripes onto Adidas.

Would you rather them standing in an unimployment line instead?
Seems like a high paying job in the US these days is managing a Burger King.

There is only room for just so many CEO's these days.

 

[fray]

Instead of an assembly line she will be doing a service oriented job. These range from fast food to car rentals to technology services. Us manufacturing is dying. There are more jobs in the US that don't really make anything (supply a service or resell china goods) than manufacturing. A major reason for this is it makes companies more money to have a product made and shipped half way across the world than paying people in the united states. It just costs too much money to pay American workers.

I am in manufacturing and I need good workers. The issue I have is a line of candidates with no skills. I interviewed 6 people yesterday that have worked for the past 20 years that can only drive a forklift. One guy worked with the railroad for 15 years. He was fired from there because he derailed cars 9 times in the last 2 years and 24 times since he started. He didn't even have the savvy to not tell me how incompetent he was.

I would kill for someone with a concern level and some sort of ability for abstract thought

 

[Jaguar G]

I dont know how it is in other states but here If you are a new business just starting out can take a loss for 3 years. Honestly if i had the money I would invest into a assembly line just to get usa parts out there. Im pretty sure it would take less than 3 years to start showing a profit.

The three year return would be a sound business risk. Frankly that is where I see an automated assembly line making attys and cartos breaking even, if prices stay relatively stable.

The problem is we do not know if the FDA, BT and BP will allow this market to exist six months from now, three years from now is just so uncertain no one would be willing touch it.

Jag

 

[wv2win]

..........The problem is we do not know if the FDA, BT and BP will allow this market to exist six months from now, three years from now is just so uncertain no one would be willing touch it. Jag

FDA and BP are the problem. BT is NOT the problem.

 

[Jaguar G]

FDA and BP are the problem. BT is NOT the problem.

Not the way I see it. My opinion is BT wants the mom and pop's shut down and then they can control the market on nic juice. They will attempt to do this by having the FDA make the manufacturing process of juice so regulated and controlled that no one can enter the market with a start up, and those already in the market jump through so many hoops that most will either not try, or try and fail and get shut down. Crony capitalism at its finest, benefiting only those who can "contribute" enough to the political machine, and BT can make those types of contributions.

Of course I am a pessimist when it comes to politics; but I feel I have arrived at my pessimism honestly.

Jag

 

[wv2win]

Not the way I see it. My opinion is BT wants the mom and pop's shut down and then they can control the market on nic juice. They will attempt to do this by having the FDA make the manufacturing process of juice so regulated and controlled that no one can enter the market with a start up, and those already in the market jump through so many hoops that most will either not try, or try and fail and get shut down. Crony capitalism at its finest, benefiting only those who can "contribute" enough to the political machine, and BT can make those types of contributions.

Of course I am a pessimist when it comes to politics; but I feel I have arrived at my pessimism honestly.

Jag

If you check with CASAA and Bill Godshall of Smoke Free Pennsylvania, who are in the political arena and follow and research the political issues closely, you will find that BT has not done anything to harm the vaping community as it has developed. BP has been and continues to be the driving force behind making vaping illegal and/or seriously restricted.

If BT gets into the market at some point, their history has not been one to provide less options or inferior options. In some respects it "may" be a good thing. All I am saying is "to date" they have not done anything to harm our ability to vape. If they end up supporting restrictions in a deal that would allow them to jump into the market in a big way, then all bets are off.

 

[Jaguar G]

If you check with CASAA and Bill Godshall of Smoke Free Pennsylvania, who are in the political arena and follow and research the political issues closely, you will find that BT has not done anything to harm the vaping community as it has developed. BP has been and continues to be the driving force behind making vaping illegal and/or seriously restricted.

If BT gets into the market at some point, their history has not been one to provide less options or inferior options. In some respects it "may" be a good thing. All I am saying is "to date" they have not done anything to harm our ability to vape. If they end up supporting restrictions in a deal that would allow them to jump into the market in a big way, then all bets are off.

I completely agree with you wv, and my opinion remains if BP and the FDA don't shut down e-cigs, BT will be there to make their run at the market, and will use whatever influence they can buy to ensure the costs of getting into or staying in the market will be cost prohibitive. I would like to think they would help, but just can't convince myself that would be the case.

Jag

 

[Glam]

This thread touches a point of which I am very passionate about. Manufacturing jobs made this country's standard of living one of the best in the world, and with the loss of those jobs, we are also losing our country's greatness. And all due to greed.....most of the companies who moved out of the U.S. were making great profits. But that was not enough, they wanted more profit, and it did not matter that the greater profit is coming to them at a huge cost to the American people. I wish I had the opportunity to buy solely American made goods, but that is not even a choice most of the time anymore. To me, the stuff coming from China is just disposable junk....I so long for the good old days when things lasted a long time. I would pay more for vaping supplies made right here in the good old USA---I bet they would last longer too.

 

[cavibird2005]

I really think the reality of it is this....

The American Worker wants as much as he/she can get for their time..... and yet wants to spend as little of their money on goods and services as possible. It makes sense for a company to move labor over seas (Not morally, but financially) because at the end of the day what they want is to sell their product for as cheaply as they can. While still making a profit.

There are a lack of workers in the USA who would be willing to work for cheap enough to make the product cheap enough that the end consumer would buy it. And even if there were workers willing to work for <$10 with minimal benefits eventually they will unionize and @ that point the cost of labor goes through the roof. And the end result is the additional cost of Union workers is transfered on to the consumer.

A example of this would be the Fridgidaire factory here in my home town. Unionized PT employees are paid $17 with a guaranteed raise of 1.50 and hour after 90 days until the reach $20 an hour. FT employees have full medical, dental, life, and injury insurance and pay 25% of cost. They start at $35 again guaranteed 2.50 raise every 90 days until they reach $40 and hour which they remain at $40 and hour until they each 4yrs and than they get bumped up $5 hr. And an additional $5 for each additional 5yrs in the union. They also have a full pension.

I know this because I have friends who work there.

Ever go shopping for a new fridge? $1200 seems pricey... well now u know why

 

[sandybeach]

How Germany Builds Twice as Many Cars as the U.S. while Paying its Workers Twice as Much. IHow Germany Builds Twice as Many Cars as the U.S. While Paying Its Workers Twice as Much - Forbes

Interesting article. I mourn the days when we paid good money for manufacturing jobs. I grew up in those days. I was a kid, but it sure seemed like the standard of living was higher. We didn't have as many gadgets. One phone, one car, one TV; but most of the moms didn't work, either. I would love to see manufacturing come back here, but it is not realistic.

 

[cavibird2005]

How Germany Builds Twice as Many Cars as the U.S. while Paying its Workers Twice as Much. IHow Germany Builds Twice as Many Cars as the U.S. While Paying Its Workers Twice as Much - Forbes

Interesting article. I mourn the days when we paid good money for manufacturing jobs. I grew up in those days. I was a kid, but it sure seemed like the standard of living was higher. We didn't have as many gadgets. One phone, one car, one TV; but most of the moms didn't work, either. I would love to see manufacturing come back here, but it is not realistic.

The German Economy is also MUCH stronger than the US economy. Their economy is single handily holding up the EEA (The Euro) Also the numbers in the article a lil Skewed.. All the research I've seen shows the UAW costing American Auto Manufacturers between $60-$75 an hr(Depending on the manufacturer) when you include the costs of pensions.

 

[erich]

Would you rather them standing in an unimployment line instead?
Seems like a high paying job in the US these days is managing a Burger King.

There is only room for just so many CEO's these days.

That's the overly simplistic argument du jour these days... that if there are no manufacturing jobs, people will be out of work. This may well have a grain of truth to it, but standing around in unemployment lines isn't going to bring the jobs back.

Chinese dominance of the manufacturing industry is largely due to sheer population numbers, rampant poverty, and their government's willingness to exploit both of these. The average U.S. manufacturing job pays somewhere in the neighborhood of $54,000 per year. Not mountains of cash, but a decent living. The average Chinese factory worker earns about $1,500 per year. This is less than 8% of the U.S. minimum wage. There is also an estimated 25% real unemployment rate (vs. a 16-18% real unemployment rate in the U.S.). This means that there are more unemployed Chinese waiting for a $1,500/yr. job than there are workers in the entire U.S. work force.

There is no bridging that gap. No western country is going to be able to compete with that. To do so would mean similar exploitation of our own people. No matter how bad things get, American workers are not going to accept $0.50/hr. As a result, products made here are by necessity going to either be much more expensive or of much lower quality.

I have no daughter, so 'she' is hypothetical here, but no, I wouldn't prefer her in an unemployment line. I'd prefer she had sufficient education to be adaptable to a modern economy and get a job as a paralegal, a doctor, a nurse, a physical therapist, a dental hygienist, a veterinarian, a secretary, an insurance adjuster, an engineer, a software developer, a network technician, a stock broker, a teacher, a construction estimator, a risk management specialist, a real-estate agent, or an accountant. And if one of these professions is marginalized in the future, I would want her to have the wherewithal to shift into another.

I would prefer she not work at the chemical plant, the poultry plant, a textile mill, or the steel mill. It's always a good news story to show the dejected workers outside of a closed factory, but the truth is that these are not the best jobs. They are dangerous, monotonous, offer mediocre pay, and have little mobility.

 

[tj99959]

rampant poverty

Will soon be the norm in the US

Then people will beg for a job .... any job

No unions, no pensions, just 20 hours days for your dime.

 

[erich]

The German Economy is also MUCH stronger than the US economy. Their economy is single handily holding up the EEA (The Euro)

Ironically, Germany will soon have control of much of Europe.

 

[cavibird2005]

Ironically, Germany will soon have control of much of Europe.

They pretty much already do have complete control of Countries in the EEA. When you have all the money, and the ability to back out at any time. You have all the control. The UK foresaw this, they knew the could never compete with Germany economically. Which is why the did not join the EEA.

It was a great move on Germany's part. A terrible move on the part of all other EEA members.