Classified Suggestions & Questions

[firephly]

This should provide you the information you need: https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full?country.x=US&locale.x=en_US#13


Quote from that page: (out of context, please read section in it's entirety)


From what I read, as long as you file a dispute within 45 days of when the funds were sent, you should be ok. Let me also state this, do not ever at any point mention anything about e-cigs or e-cig related items! They will not honor the dispute because they consider these items to be illegal. How long you wait or allow the person to respond is really a personal preferences. If it is a large sum of money, I would probably be quick to dispute if I felt the person had ample time to respond and the opposite for lower amounts of money. So what ever makes you more comfortable is what is best. I do ask when you file a dispute on a Verified Member on the forum, please file a complaint against that member to prevent them from scamming anyone else.

yup i already did both after i posted here, i guess i just wondered if there was any particular other protocol, but i guess not. seems i wasn't the only one ripped off by that person.

 

[j0ker]

Why do they go unanswered? At least a, "we got your complaint form, but are ignoring it?", or a "Thanks" would be better than wondering why a legitimate complaint goes nowhere.

Props to Dusty(Great guy) who actually responded to me yesterday on a PM and handled a situation that was out of control. Blew me way, on top of the fact that he cared.

Much like inquiries here, no response. Inquiry #336 and #337, nothing, nadda, crickets....

You often say how busy you are and there are members trying to help as you asked earlier but, communication is a two way street. Some of us who actually do enjoy the forum and benefit quite a few ECF members in many ways also try to help keep things in line through forms, pm's and threads(like this) to. I know you must have seen my pm's and I feel they are kicked aside as very unimportant.

There are many issues and members taking advantage the classifieds in our Forum, in fact it is some days out of control.

Thanks
I'm honestly just posting true questions and concerns, there is no intent of sarcasm intended.

Can you give me an example of a complaint form that has gone unanswered? Because I just looked and every single complaint form in the last few weeks were handled. I also did not see one single complaint form filed by you since the beginning of the form, so I have no idea how you know they are going unanswered.

If you are referring to reported threads or post, that is a different subject altogether. As a rule, we never discuss matters concerning other members, at all. So if you reported something, we handled it and how we handled it was none of anyone's business but the member and other staff.

If it's a pat on the back you are looking for......Thanks Idaholandho we appreciate you helping us keep the forum clean and thank you for your future support.

 

[j0ker]

yup i already did both after i posted here, i guess i just wondered if there was any particular other protocol, but i guess not. seems i wasn't the only one ripped off by that person.

No not really, as long as you give someone a reasonable amount of time to respond and leave yourself time to file a dispute, you should be fine. If I were most, I would at least give someone 3 or 4 days to respond or have a tracking number before I began to consider filing a dispute on PayPal.

 

[Idaholandho]

As to the delays......

due to the lack of time due to work, the smashing of my laptop screen (which I used for most all ECF work......and don't ask! ), my vacation last week, I'm behind on everything! I'm starting to catch up, so please be patient. Also, keep in mind that we are mere volunteers here and sometimes spend a minimum of 4 hours a day and as much as 12 hours at time some days. At some point we have to step back and take some time for ourselves and families. So you might not always get a response in a rapid manner. To this I would say, post your question here, if you don't get a response in a reasonable amount of time, send a link to your post via PM to myself, classwife or sonicdsl. Notifications don't always come to us as they should and a little reminder is acceptable.

Thanks Joker. We know your work is sometimes under appreciated. But, there are also some of us that truly appreciate and respect you as well.
There just seems to be a lack of continuity and consistent moderator management.
You have many times responded in the past but, honestly pming Sonic is a waste of time. Many members feel this way. The only way he pms is with an infraction, been there. But, he stops when he had to deal with logic. Far to much favoritism my friend.
All we ask is there be consistency within the classifieds and forum. You know to a answer a pm takes little time. I guarantee you are the busiest yet, there is still a big sense of care.
Read up the page. No responses at all for legitimate claims, the members deserve recognition.
There have been serious offences lately in the classifieds. Blatant flipping and member suppliers for one.
I hate to read the negativity on other forums about ecf. I truly enjoy the forum.
Aside from the comments like "ecf infraction for breathing" on other solid forums, not hem lol,
we now deal with classified comments. CaliVapes and ECF are the flipping markets.
You would be surprised the number of us that are truly feed up and only because we care.
Thanks J.

 

[Idaholandho]

Can you give me an example of a complaint form that has gone unanswered? Because I just looked and every single complaint form in the last few weeks were handled. I also did not see one single complaint form filed by you since the beginning of the form, so I have no idea how you know they are going unanswered.

If you are referring to reported threads or post, that is a different subject altogether. As a rule, we never discuss matters concerning other members, at all. So if you reported something, we handled it and how we handled it was none of anyone's business but the member and other staff.

If it's a pat on the back you are looking for......Thanks Idaholandho we appreciate you helping us keep the forum clean and thank you for your future support.

A pat on the back? Seriously? That's awesome.

 

[Idaholandho]

Edit, are you serious about not finding a classified report? Interesting, Hence my question of no responce I spose. Turned in 2 on members selling ekowool in packages, one seeking emergency kits, a 435.00 Doodlebug and these aren't to far back.
I won't worry any more. Apologize for wasting anyone's time. I should just do my thing anyhow, watch myself
All the best Joker.
On a funny note, everytime I Swype Joker my phone auto corrects to ...... cracks me up.

 

[Dochartaigh]

The problem is, there is just no easy way to describe the rule in a way that every single person on the planet Earth can understand it. The issue has been discussed and rediscussed several times and the way we have it posted is the best way we've found to explain it without created a tech manual out of the rule.

We aren't being hardasses about this rule. You should not take offense to your thread being closed, its nothing personal. We understand it isn't so cut and dry, so we treat all counterfeits the same way. We will contact you to discuss the matter and try to see your side. If we think you genuinely made an honest mistake, we just explain our stance and move on. Sure if it becomes a habit with an individual, they may receive a Rule Reminder (contrary to popular belief, this is not really a big deal either but I won't get into that). Our message to you or replies will always be polite as long as we receive the same in return. This doesn't mean we will be all happy and friendly, sometimes we are short and to the point, mostly because we usually have a lot going on but we do take the time to respond. Now if you happen to receive a PM that says "Hey stupid, what the heck you think you're doing!", I need to know about it . If it's from me, contact the forum manager because my account has been hacked.

Thank you for the detailed response. It's appreciated. Couple points:

I received a rule reminder on my first infraction, in fact on the very first classified ad I ever posted - i.e. it wasn't a habit as you described which would be the only reason to get an infraction added to my account here - yet I still got one.

I never received a reply from the moderator who gave me the infraction, even after two extremely polite PM's, and even after posting in this topic multiple times.

And last, which is my biggest problem, is you said it yourself how the rule can't be described adequately. How can that be called a rule then? There's nothing for us, the members of this forum, to go by when posting classified ads. This puts us at the whim of a specific moderator, and their mindset at that particular time (case and point is all the other topics I see open selling identical items to what I was selling). That's a dangerous mix when you have a vague rule being enforced wishy-washy willy-nilly, then penalizing productive members of the community when they might have, kinda, maybe, violated the quasi-rule.



If you read through my previous posts you can see how the rule contradicts itself not once, not twice, not even three times but every single sentence pretty much contradicts the sentence AND/or paragraph before it. I've been a senior moderator on a board with over 60,000 members (not quite as big as this forum but you can see a link hopefully), and rules can always be written with clarity. The rule really has to be re-written – perhaps even going so far as posting pictures of similar clone items with what exactly makes one OK to sell and another verboten (not every item of course: just enough to clue people in on the minute differences) so people truly know where they stand when making classifieds ads (and this will most definitely have the side-effect of the moderating team not having to answer all those PM's, send all those warnings, and post in this topic in response to pain-in-the-... people like me

 

[BTerry]

Ban the Bump! really really annoying...

 

[Racehorse]

Hthe moderators are only a small group of people who cannot keep an eye on every single thread (this forum is HUGE), so some slip through the cracks. In a case like that, the little triangle icon at the bottom of the post can be used to report it.

Great post Killjoy, and Just want to comment that this doesn't make anybody guilty of "policing" the forums, or being "tattle-tales".

Many of the classified violations are not even on purpose, they are just done by sellers who perhaps have not taken the time to read the rules, etc. and not dishonest.

The problem is that some of them consist of ad copy "within" the ad, and it's reallly hard for a small group of moderators to read thru every single ad in the classified section. By just using the little triangle like Killjoy suggested, you can report the ad and give a short reason for reporting like "seller asking for Paypal fees".

It is just a lot easier for mods to respond to reports than to read thru 100's of ads.

And it's a good thing to report, because 1) new sellers need to read the rules and learn what is and isn't acceptable and 2) we protect other members from those who do know the rules and choose to bypass them.

A few times I have PMed a seller and said "you might consider re-wording your ad since it violates rules before it gets reported formally" and I always get back a "thank you! I didn't know" PM most of the time. I have also taught many many new sellers how to use Paypal shipping, give the link, etc. (a lot of new sellers don't even know how to use on-line postage).

There are very few truly dishonest rip-off artists here. The reporting system takes care of those. But if everyone just helps keep the classies honest, then it will only benefit everyone.

I look at the classifieds area the same as the rest of the forum....a place where people have an opportunity to help and educate other members.

 

[cags]

Ban the Bump! really really annoying...

I got rid of the annoying bumping in the classifieds by sorting them by "thread start time". you can do that on the bottom of the page.

 

[classwife]

Ban the Bump! really really annoying...

Again, this comes with member assistance please...we just can not watch every ad and each post.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-guidelines-updated-often-without-notice.html

Bumping Rules

1. If your post has nothing new or constructive that contributes to the thread, it will be considered a bump.
2. You are permitted to "bump" your thread(s) ONCE every 12 hours.
3. You are allowed a maximum of three bumps, at which point your thread will be locked.
4. You may NOT create a new thread for 3 days if your previous one has been locked by an ECF staff member.

If you see the Bumping Rule being violated, please report the first post with the Report Triangle, in the reason for reporting just put in Bumping.

Your help is greatly appreciated !!

 

[j0ker]

Thank you for the detailed response. It's appreciated. Couple points:

I received a rule reminder on my first infraction, in fact on the very first classified ad I ever posted - i.e. it wasn't a habit as you described which would be the only reason to get an infraction added to my account here - yet I still got one.

I never received a reply from the moderator who gave me the infraction, even after two extremely polite PM's, and even after posting in this topic multiple times.

And last, which is my biggest problem, is you said it yourself how the rule can't be described adequately. How can that be called a rule then? There's nothing for us, the members of this forum, to go by when posting classified ads. This puts us at the whim of a specific moderator, and their mindset at that particular time (case and point is all the other topics I see open selling identical items to what I was selling). That's a dangerous mix when you have a vague rule being enforced wishy-washy willy-nilly, then penalizing productive members of the community when they might have, kinda, maybe, violated the quasi-rule.



If you read through my previous posts you can see how the rule contradicts itself not once, not twice, not even three times but every single sentence pretty much contradicts the sentence AND/or paragraph before it. I've been a senior moderator on a board with over 60,000 members (not quite as big as this forum but you can see a link hopefully), and rules can always be written with clarity. The rule really has to be re-written – perhaps even going so far as posting pictures of similar clone items with what exactly makes one OK to sell and another verboten (not every item of course: just enough to clue people in on the minute differences) so people truly know where they stand when making classifieds ads (and this will most definitely have the side-effect of the moderating team not having to answer all those PM's, send all those warnings, and post in this topic in response to pain-in-the-... people like me

First of all, you received a rule reminder, not an infraction. There's a big difference, rule reminders are just that, reminding you of the rules you agree to read and understand. It carries no points. An infraction is given either when someone has violated the same rule more than once or purposely breaks a rule.

As far as not receiving a reply to PM's, I've asked and no PM's were received. Feel free to forward the PM's to me from your sent folder, keeping the time stamp intact.

As far as clarity of the rule, maybe I misspoke. The rule is clear, no counterfeits, that's it. The hard part is making members that don't understand what counterfeit is, to understand what is counterfeit. There is no way we can create a database listing everything that is counterfeit, we can only give members a general idea of what to look for.

To me it seems simple and I don't mean his as an insult! If a device carries the same name (even if it says clone), is not from the original manufacturer or authorized reseller, is exactly the same design (or very similar, like grooves or cutouts), and/or has the same trademarks, it is a counterfeit.

 

[Idaholandho]

Hope all is well Joker. I was hoping that you might kick around these ideas for the classifieds.

1. Members must leave original price on fs items during an active ad and after closing. No replacing them with sold or deleting the price. This may help members with the current values for listing and buying. It may also keep ads more "honest". I know some go back and raise and lower original prices in the description area for their loan motives.

2. Members must include current or last mrp of item of applicable. With exceptions such as products made by members ie wood stands, some devices, etc..
Recently, the same member with 2 ads overpricing each and posting something like, I am trying to recoup the money I paid a flipper. Not our problem boss J.
The same guy had the same price on Califlippers without the sob story.

3. This may be tough but, it works. On UKV there is a section for "over retail" or More than MRP.
It is empty. Has been empty. Will be empty. No one wants to be that DB.

In all seriousness, as of late, ECF has been mentioned and poked quite about becoming the place to profit. CV being one of the worst and some have compared the two . Honestly, imho CV is crap comparatively but, I do lurk the classifieds and I still can't put the two close but...

As always J, thanks for reading.


Edit, let's push the no flipping rule. Add a banner, "Flipping not Tolerated"

 

[Dochartaigh]

As far as not receiving a reply to PM's, I've asked and no PM's were received. Feel free to forward the PM's to me from your sent folder, keeping the time stamp intact.

I just forwarded the 3rd PM I happen to have saved still - although there's no timestamp that's visible to my eyes in the content (maybe you can see it though).

 

[j0ker]

I just forwarded the 3rd PM I happen to have saved still - although there's no timestamp that's visible to my eyes in the content (maybe you can see it though).

I got your PM and you're right, no time stamp. I was thinking the time stamp was in the header but I was wrong. We are looking further into the missing PMs and I'll respond through PM with my findings.

 

[MattyRetro]

Anyone have a problem posting a F/S thread thru Tapatalk? It tells me that I don't have sufficient privileges. I can post just fine thru my Google browser. Would just be nice to post ads on the go.

 

[sonicdsl]

Sorry, but Tapatalk is blocked from starting ads in the Classifieds due to incompatibility issues.

 

[MattyRetro]

Thanks Sonic for the info! Just wanted to make sure it wasn't something I was doing wrong.

 

[olderthandirt]

Just read the profiteering update joker. Change from percentage to $10 over retail, ok......

Depending in part on how "retail" is defined, doesn't this open the door to profiteering using coop purchases?

 

[sonicdsl]

Co-op pricing rules still apply in that case OTD, in other words, you are not permitted to sell a co-op item over what you paid in the co-op, regardless of current retail price.


http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-guidelines-updated-often-without-notice.html

16. CO-OP items can be resold in the Classifieds but pricing rules apply, no selling over your total cost. If you are a CO-OP host and have bulk leftover after CO-OP, please contact me before listing the items.

I hope that answers your question.