"Clones" are actually the REAL THING

Status
Not open for further replies.

SimianSteam

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Feb 2, 2013
941
1,322
44
The Jungle
Until you hard short the battery...

Which you can do on a $200 mech as well.

The attempts to discredit all clones based on some shoddy ones is silly, and a kinda weak argument. Are there unsafe clone mechs out there? Of course. That's why any mech should be used by an experienced vaper. Does that make all of them unsafe? No.

Stick with your ideological arguments. The attempts at manipulating the hearts and minds of vapers by bringing fear into the equation is a transparently Fox News-esque tactic.
 

buklao

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Nov 2, 2013
144
69
Winnipeg
Which you can do on a $200 mech as well.

The attempts to discredit all clones based on some shoddy ones is silly, and a kinda weak argument. Are there unsafe clone mechs out there? Of course. That's why any mech should be used by an experienced vaper. Does that make all of them unsafe? No.

Stick with your ideological arguments. The attempts at manipulating the hearts and minds of vapers by bringing fear into the equation is a transparently Fox News-esque tactic.

Finally someone who understands that clones and originals are not far apart from each other.
 

buklao

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Nov 2, 2013
144
69
Winnipeg
Wow... So we're not even trying to be respectful of each other anymore, huh?

I barely specified someone in my posts and anything towards a single person either. Im just proving that there are a bunch of individual reasoning (possible ones too) why can a person relies on buying clones instead of having authentics, i never really persuaded a person into buying clones it is their choice. I just keep replying since a certain person, and now a couple maybe, keeps on replying to my posts persuading people into authentics, as you have encountered on your last post that he mentioned that he just doesnt want to see someone blowing their face off, therefore he should be posting more into battery and safety section if that is his concern. Im not trying to persuade you going into my side as well, just appreciating another person who sees this while counterfeit/original mods the way I see them.
 

Richard75

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Nov 23, 2012
357
305
Pennsylvania
Which you can do on a $200 mech as well.

The attempts to discredit all clones based on some shoddy ones is silly, and a kinda weak argument. Are there unsafe clone mechs out there? Of course. That's why any mech should be used by an experienced vaper. Does that make all of them unsafe? No.

Stick with your ideological arguments. The attempts at manipulating the hearts and minds of vapers by bringing fear into the equation is a transparently Fox News-esque tactic.

I never claimed you couldn't. But what I can say is that I'm inclined to believe someone shelling out 200 bucks for a Nemesis and 100 for a dripper is likely to be more experienced than someone who just spend 25 on a counterfeit along with a 6 dollar dripper with chromed brass posts. Being experienced isn't just about being able to make a killer coil.
 

Fury83

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
May 14, 2012
3,066
3,069
Nowhere
Or you just cant accept the fact that anything beyond this point is over your reasoning anymore?

You can come up with numerous examples of other industries where similar products are made but the companies respect each other's copyrights and license technology from each other. That isn't the case here.

I just can't have the same argument over and over. You thinking the toyota 86 platform, jointly developed by two companies, is anything disrespectful just makes me feel bad for you. So I'm all set with this; everything I've said previously doesn't need to be repeated.

Please stay away from any sharp objects and raise your hand if you need an adult.
 

buklao

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Nov 2, 2013
144
69
Winnipeg
Except for the lead, stolen designs, and shoddy workmanship I'd have to agree.


HEM CREW

Like I've showed the other person on my long reply, pictures of an origin mech mod and a nemesis mech mod, both considered to be authentic because of having different manufacturer and brands, but really if you look at it they are quite the same. If you really care so much about the safety that you will get from vaping using clones then might I suggest you to just quit because we all know that there are quite a lot of unsafe factors in vaping that we dont have a conclusion yet and these doesnt concern wether you are using a clone or an authentic device.

I dont really mind repeating myself over and over again, but hey if a person cannot accept these points then what can i do right?
 

buklao

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Nov 2, 2013
144
69
Winnipeg
You can come up with numerous examples of other industries where similar products are made but the companies respect each other's copyrights and license technology from each other. That isn't the case here.

I just can't have the same argument over and over. You thinking the toyota 86 platform, jointly developed by two companies, is anything disrespectful just makes me feel bad for you. So I'm all set with this; everything I've said previously doesn't need to be repeated.

Please stay away from any sharp objects and raise your hand if you need an adult.

You still havent moved on from that toyota example eventho ive given you a bunch more........maybe you still havent finished reading, carry on.


Also, how can you say that these manufacturers respect each other's copyright and license technology when you see tv commercials where they bash each others products uncensored and directly? You gotta be kidding me. Copyright and license technology yet they share the exact same concept, might as well make one whole giant company, that would save them time,money and loss of profit.

With that being said, how can you say that these counterfeits are disrespecting the original modders? You havent seen these original modders filing lawsuits against these clone makers, even if they do, it isnt big enough of a case meaning they havent put as much effort into it because if they are really getting hurt by these counterfeiters they would do everything in their power to try and stop them.
 

buklao

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Nov 2, 2013
144
69
Winnipeg
There's a big difference between a discussion and people with irreconcilable viewpoints spewing their opinions back and forth. This thread definitely gravitates towards the latter.

As you can see, im stating my opinions in general not having it as a reply towards someone else's opinion. Unlike these two who just keeps on coming at me trying to prove their opinion is right. I mean there are no right or wrong opinions but really? They are pointing their rage towards mine just to try and prove theirs is right? Lol. But I agree, i shall stop replying to them.
 

nightfell

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jul 31, 2012
1,291
1,510
Massachusetts
To make something costs money, R & D, buying machines or sending it out for fabrication, materials, and paying employees, etc.

To reverse engineer something in China costs far less, paying children to make them, lower quality metals/ materials, the government also subsidizes which is why the prices are so low.

I have nothing against the citizens of China but I do have a problem with the PRC government. Ecigs are one of the few things in my life where I have a choice to not buy something made in the PRC. I'd rather give my ecig money to the Greeks, Israelis, Germans, etc.

So are clones really the same thing?



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
Last edited:

Technonut

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Oct 11, 2010
5,090
7,287
60
East Coast, USA
I read somewhere in this thread or a similar one where it was stated that some of the mod-makers are not bothered by the clones... I personally read a post by Imeo (GG) awhile back confirming this. Well, times are changing.. Here's Imeo's latest take on the situation..

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/gg/494469-fakes-clones-copies.html


I was talking to Greek seller yesterday and he asked me why China doesnt clone China products.

Oupssss! Nice question. They copy modders but they dont copy each other. Also China doesnt copy the brand names of China products.

What that means to me? It means that Europe, USA and other places are attacked by China. They want to destroy the e-cig market at once and they want to be the only e-cig makers.

Do we have to accept this situation? Are we weaker than them? Maybe less clever? Or simply more lazy?

Some EU-USA stores take advantage of that situation and they make it worse by selling those fakes or clones. This must be stopped too. And of course forums must take a serious action on this. If we put in a black list the stores that sell fakes and forums stop all activity of fakes then we can come back to normal. If not, China will take over this business and all our tries and inventions will be forgotten


Another worn excuse is that modders limit production and stuff are always out of stock so that is why they turn to clones. Total bs as proven by ithaka. Now they use the excuse "try clones first before buying original". Cowdung!

I really believe that we can stop very easy all this clone activity. Its so easy that you will not believe it. But we are used to think that things are difficult and we cant do anything because big companies rule the world. Thats not true in our situation because vapers are still a small community. But if we let them go big then we will not be able to do many things. But now its very easy. Internet has very big power and in our situation, forums are the places that can bring the solution. If forums stop talking about this and blacklist those clones and stores that sells them, then this clone industry will go down in 1 month.
 

edyle

ECF Guru
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Oct 23, 2013
14,199
7,195
Port-of-Spain, Trinidad & Tobago
Except for the lead, stolen designs, and shoddy workmanship I'd have to agree.


HEM CREW

Knockoff:
A knockoff is a cheap version; Somebody makes a solidly built product, its is expensive; somebody else mass produces a cheap version with alot of plastic

Clone:
A clone is an almost exact duplicate; at first glance. Same shape; same apparent construction; same apparent quality. The more precise the duplication, the better quality the clone;

Counterfiet:
Fraudulent pretense to be manufactured by someone else. Knockoffs and clones can be used for counterfiet purposes; they can be branded and packaged and sold fraudulently as something else.
 

StaircaseWit

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jan 18, 2013
995
462
The Pit of Despair
With that being said, how can you say that these counterfeits are disrespecting the original modders? You havent seen these original modders filing lawsuits against these clone makers, even if they do, it isnt big enough of a case meaning they havent put as much effort into it because if they are really getting hurt by these counterfeiters they would do everything in their power to try and stop them.

Say you come up with some doohickey in your garage. It doesn't have to be vaping related. It's unique, in fact there isn't a doohickey made with the same ideas you used to make yours. You make it out of quality materials, and people are buying it at $120! Nice! So you contract with a machine shop to make you more, because you can't keep up! Nice! They need CAD files to make your parts, so you contract a guy to do that for you. Nice! The materials are expensive, and the machine shop costs you quite a bit, but you realize that people are willing to pay the price you're asking for your doohickey because it uses good materials, the machining is well done and the design is unique, so you keep building them.

One day you're perusing your favorite doohickey forum, and someone posts "This is exactly like the Buklao doohickey but it only cost me $12" and the thread is blowing up. You look and the design is exactly like yours. It even says "Design by Buklao" on the side! Your orders are drying up. You still owe the machine shop for last month's run, you spent a good sum getting the CAD files prepared, and no one's ordering your doohickey anymore.

So you think "Hey, I know, I'll sue them!" You call a lawyer, and he asks "Who's counterfeiting your doohickey?" You say "Some company in China." He promptly hangs up. Seventeen calls later, you finally find one who'll talk to you, but he demands a $5000 retainer to even begin filing the case, and tells you he bills at $750 an hour. But the retainer would eat up almost all your profit, and at $750/hr your profits will be gone in no time! "The Chinese government is notorious for not pursuing copyright claims" he tells you.

That's how counterfeits are disrespecting original modders.
 
Last edited:

halcon

Full Member
Verified Member
Aug 26, 2013
69
49
Austin, TX
With that being said, how can you say that these counterfeits are disrespecting the original modders? You havent seen these original modders filing lawsuits against these clone makers, even if they do, it isnt big enough of a case meaning they havent put as much effort into it because if they are really getting hurt by these counterfeiters they would do everything in their power to try and stop them.

Not true. Imeo's response was mentioned before, Doc Dave is also trying to fight this:

https://www.facebook.com/doc.dave.338/posts/203062306534990
 

edyle

ECF Guru
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Oct 23, 2013
14,199
7,195
Port-of-Spain, Trinidad & Tobago
Say you come up with some doohickey in your garage. It doesn't have to be vaping related. It's unique, in fact there isn't a doohickey made with the same ideas you used to make yours. You make it out of quality materials, and people are buying it at $120! Nice! So you contract with a machine shop to make you more, because you can't keep up! Nice! They need CAD files to make your parts, so you contract a guy to do that for you. Nice! The materials are expensive, and the machine shop costs you quite a bit, but you realize that people are willing to pay the price you're asking for your doohickey because it uses good materials, the machining is well done and the design is unique, so you keep building them.

One day you're perusing your favorite doohickey forum, and someone posts "This is exactly like the Buklao doohickey but it only cost me $12" and the thread is blowing up. You look and the design is exactly like yours. It even says "Design by Buklao" on the side! Your orders are drying up. You still owe the machine shop for last month's run, you spent a good sum getting the CAD files prepared, and no one's ordering your doohickey anymore.

So you think "Hey, I know, I'll sue them!" You call a lawyer, and he asks "Who's counterfeiting your doohickey?" You say "Some company in China." He promptly hangs up. Seventeen calls later, you finally find one who'll talk to you, but he demands a $5000 retainer to even begin filing the case, and tells you he bills at $750 an hour. But the retainer would eat up almost all your profit, and at $750/hr your profits will be gone in no time! "The Chinese government is notorious for not pursuing copyright claims" he tells you.

That's how counterfeits are disrespecting original modders.

This discussion should go OUTSIDE.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread