"Clones" are actually the REAL THING

[GREEN ZOMBIE]

We are not talking about whether you NEED a $200 mod or not to quit the stinkies. I'd say most people don't. Some of us are performance nuts and we want the best performance and quality.

However the argument of "they are mad because my $20 clone is just as good as their $200" could be reversed to the other side by saying "they are trying to justify and praise their cheap $20 clone because they can't afford the authentic".

Agreed, All good points, I fall somewhere in the middle, Or maybe off to the side... I can afford a lets say, $200 Genesis style rba, But is there justification in design or materials to deserve such a price tag? If the designer sold it at a reasonable price for everyone to enjoy, there would be little reason to clone it, or to even buy the clone, and I don't care where it was made and how much people got paid to manufacture it. It's just wrong for them to put their junk so high on a pedestal, So... I don't buy it from them, I just wait for the ripoff, And I say thank you to the designer while I enjoy my clone. I guess it's just my way of giving greedy people the finger.

Edit: But like the OP said... Maybe they already do... And in that case, Well... Wanna see my $20 clone

And just so no one questions my morals, I would just as quickly do it to the makers of the ProVari, If and when someone figures out how to clone one!

 

[Rule62]

Agreed, All good points, I fall somewhere in the middle, Or maybe off to the side... I can afford a lets say, $200 Genesis style RBA, But is there justification in design or materials to deserve such a price tag? If the designer sold it at a reasonable price for everyone to enjoy, there would be little reason to clone it, or to even buy the clone, and I don't care where it was made and how much people got paid to manufacture it. It's just wrong for them to put their junk so high on a pedestal, So... I don't buy it from them, I just wait for the ripoff, And I say thank you to the designer while I enjoy my clone. I guess it's just my way of giving greedy people the finger.

Edit: But like the OP said... Maybe they already do... And in that case, Well... Wanna see my $20 clone

And just so no one questions my morals, I would just as quickly do it to the makers of the ProVari, If and when someone figures out how to clone one!

So...your solution to giving your money to a small company, because they make too much money, is to give your money to a larger company that makes even more money?

 

[Spike64]

So...your solution to giving your money to a small company, because they make too much money, is to give your money to a larger company that makes even more money?

Hmmmm, that doesnt have much to do with what he said...replace key words in the sentence with this and you'll be more accurately following the sentiments being expressed:

"So...your solution to giving your money to a small company, because they charge too much money, is to give your money to a larger company that charges less money?

See how that works?

 

[sdogre]

And I think it's hilarious that original owners slam China for doing exactly what the original designers have done and are still doing. As I've said before, the images on the the Nemesis, Chi You and King mechs are not owned by the designers. This is a fact that can easily be found through a little searching. So, given that you're so against the theft of others property you must be in agreement that Atmomixani, Mojo and Surefire are in fact the same theives that you have portrayed China to be. And if that's the case, I'm sure you'll have no problem in disposing of these mechs and strenuously encouraging other owners to do the same.

Bottom line is that you can't have it both ways. If customers are wrong for buying a clone, then customers are wrong for buying an original.

Ah logic! Don't you just love it?

Directly from Anima

as written also in Ecf

A qucik note...I dont wish this to be a large discussion in here about clones...no interested at all for this
Just want to make clear after some reading that i have done in another thread
that our company logo(the train) IS trademarked..it is designed in hand by Michalis and we have made all the procedure for trademark..We took approval and we are only waiting for final papers...People who write may not know that this cannot be done in days but in months...We in time made our papers and paid for trademark and now we are in last steps and will have all legal papers for that..
Of course not more we can do to china but believe me there are more we can do to clone sellers...
Also any other logo used are legally used after an aggreement or taken from an open source..We are not graphists so the only logo that has to be trademarked is our company logo which indeed IS.
As i wrote this is not a beginning of clone discussion here but hopefully an answer to people that 'know' we havent tredemarked our logo...

 

[Spike64]

"Also any other logo used are legally used after an agreement or taken from an open source..We are not graphists so the only logo that has to be trademarked is our company logo which indeed IS."

So this means they are stating that they do have Anne Stokes blessing to use the Death Angel?....if so, that puts that conversation to rest...

 

[muzichead]

Ok found what I was looking for... They even went so far as to put it in what looks like a Kanger box... but if you look there is no Kanger name on the tanks in this section, and the beauty ring is not a Kanger ring, it has air slots cut in it... $9.39 Protank-II Style Bottom Coil Clearomizer (2.5mL) - translucent / 2.5ohm / beauty ring at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping

Edit... lol now that I look closer isn't that also a Protank one box?

Bad example IMO... The title of the product even tells you its "NOT" Kanger.... Protank-II Style Bottom Coil Clearomizer (2.5mL)

 

[2highcal]

2highcal, I'm going to leave alone the comment "Clones are Piracy Period".

So, you really hate the Wall-mart mentality and you think people who buy Chinese products should just move to China and you have a real problem with China and try your best not to buy anything made there.

But you do anyway because you are "realistic".

I keep reading your words over again thinking that I've obviously missed something and I'll get it next time through.

But I don't.

So please tell me, how are you different from the people who have that Wall-mart mentality?

I'm not trying to give you a hard time. I just don't understand where you're coming from. I mean if you don't like something, don't do it. If you realize you are doing it anyway, at least don't diss on others who do the same thing. Or are you just ...... at yourself for doing it too?

I will concede that it is virtually impossible not to buy anything made in china however I absolutely try my best not to. I go to great lengths to buy made in usa. I just wish people would take a few minutes and make an informed decision. In the ecig world that is the main reason I bought a Provari. I have not been able to find any of the batteries made here though, If anyone knows of one PM me, I would like to know. Unfortunately I have no desire to rebuild attys and I am virtually uneducated on cartos and do not think that is the way I want to go either so I am presently using a chinese Davide BDC, this is a product that is not a clone of some other product that I could buy that would do the same job. If I could find a USA (or German, British, Greek almost anywhere but Asia)made one hell even if it was a clone of a chinese product I would buy it. If you know of one PM me I would love to know about. I do not know what is so confusing about my statement. Enjoy and Vape On

 

[GREEN ZOMBIE]

Bad example IMO... The title of the product even tells you its "NOT" Kanger.... Protank-II Style Bottom Coil Clearomizer (2.5mL)

So style means fake? Well you wait till I get my hands on that Z-ATTY guy, he sold me a Genesis style atomizer... lol

You're So technical... well in that case... the product title didn't tell me anything, Fasttechs description of said product did, and the company name in question is KangerTech, not kanger.

Oh and you should have said IMHO, But since you didn't add the "H" I believe you to be dishonest now and shal ignore you're opinion... lol

 

[wonner]

I love threads like this.

If we don't use the bandwidth, it'll just go to waste.

 

[GREEN ZOMBIE]

What's bandwidth?

 

[albcig]

 

[vapero]

So style means fake? Well you wait till I get my hands on that Z-ATTY guy, he sold me a Genesis style atomizer... lol

You're So technical... well in that case... the product didn't tell me anything, Fasttech did, it's in the description of said product, and the company name in question is KangerTech, not kanger.

Oh and you should have said IMHO, But since you didn't add the "H" I believe you to be dishonest now... lol

actually you are right! the "genesis" style atomizers are clones of raidy's "genisis" http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/modding-forum/132663-all-my-mods-part1-258.html#post11127718

 

[muzichead]

So style means fake? Well you wait till I get my hands on that Z-ATTY guy, he sold me a Genesis style atomizer... lol

Fake is a word you could use, yes... I am sure that if you research it correctly, yes, the Z-Atty is a Genesis "STYLE" atty... They say that because raidy was the inventor of the Genisis atty and everyone has copied the design since, (or tried to)...

In regards to my standards, I have none!!! Its all good though. The way you used the FT item as an example I thought wasn't the best choice, (that's all), because it actually used the word, "style", in the description. As a better example, I think we all have seen the imitation Vivi-Nova products out there, (newer vapers may not have), and in the beginning a lot of cloners, (for lack of a better word), tried to pass them off as original Vision products in the description when they were in fact a "clone"... The same thing happened with Kanger as well. It didn't take too awfully long for vendors to change the description after customers started flooding them with the questions as to why the heads wouldn't fit their "original" product... They bought the heads because they were, (in the same case as the APV's we have been discussing), cheaper, so why buy the originals when they can save their hard earned dough on something cheaper that was supposed to fit and work...

edit... Sorry vapero, was typing all this and you beat me to the punch!!!

 

[jcalis1394]

Agreed, All good points, I fall somewhere in the middle, Or maybe off to the side... I can afford a lets say, $200 Genesis style RBA, But is there justification in design or materials to deserve such a price tag? If the designer sold it at a reasonable price for everyone to enjoy, there would be little reason to clone it, or to even buy the clone, and I don't care where it was made and how much people got paid to manufacture it. It's just wrong for them to put their junk so high on a pedestal, So... I don't buy it from them, I just wait for the ripoff, And I say thank you to the designer while I enjoy my clone. I guess it's just my way of giving greedy people the finger.

Edit: But like the OP said... Maybe they already do... And in that case, Well... Wanna see my $20 clone

And just so no one questions my morals, I would just as quickly do it to the makers of the ProVari, If and when someone figures out how to clone one!

Well, most mods out there could be seen at a "not reasonable price" since they'll take the cost of making it and multiply it to get a very profitable price. However, I still see all of these $200 mechs such as the GGTS, Nemesis, Poldiac, etc., running out in hours from when they become available. There's as much demand for originals as there is for clones, just that clones are much more available and affordable. Like I said, if I don't think there's anything to justify the $200, I won't get it. But I won't take merit from where it is due, as some of them are quite solid mods, highly conductive, versatile, resistant, high quality build with smooth buttons with quite the customer service backing them up.

There's a middle line as well. A friend of mine said he would NOT shell $200 again on a mod but loved the Nemesis look in 18350 mode. I myself told him to get a clone of it. After 2 hours of getting it I get a msg with a pic saying "What the hell is this pos?" Granted it was the Fasttech clone and not the Hcigar one. When I called him he had already bought the original. At the same time you want to justify why to pay $200 for a simple battery holder, I'm going to wonder why I can pay 1/10th of that price and still get similar quality. Most often than not, that's not the case. It depends on your aim as well, like I said you are not into performance or chasing the best flavor you can get, a twist with a protank II or carto tank will be all you need and you WILL be getting a really good vape. I myself heavily use carto tanks and love them.

 

[Caridwen]

Caridwen, I've wanted to ask, and figured I'd do it here. Let's say that someone had a device that they wanted to sell or trade that was, as purchased, a counterfeit, but modified it to remove all logos/engravings. For example, a Nemesis copy that was completely sanded down smooth.

Would something along those lines be acceptable?

If that's the case, I'd probably contact Joker before listing it. It would be his call. He's a pretty reasonable and fair guy- wouldn't want to give you any wrong info.

 

[edyle]

Ok found what I was looking for... They even went so far as to put it in what looks like a Kanger box... but if you look there is no Kanger name on the tanks in this section, and the beauty ring is not a Kanger ring, it has air slots cut in it... $9.39 Protank-II Style Bottom Coil Clearomizer (2.5mL) - translucent / 2.5ohm / beauty ring at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping

Edit... lol now that I look closer isn't that also a Protank one box?

That particular one is described as " Protank-II Style Bottom Coil Clearomizer (2.5mL) Protank-II Style Bottom Coil Clearomizer"

There's no Kanger trademark anywhere there that I can see

 

[edyle]

So style means fake? Well you wait till I get my hands on that Z-ATTY guy, he sold me a Genesis style atomizer... lol

You're So technical... well in that case... the product title didn't tell me anything, Fasttechs description of said product did, and the company name in question is KangerTech, not kanger.

Oh and you should have said IMHO, But since you didn't add the "H" I believe you to be dishonest now and shal ignore you're opinion... lol

yes of course; I can cook you some Kentucky styled fried chicken; obviously not from the kfc.

 

[MaxPower]

That particular one is described as " Protank-II Style Bottom Coil Clearomizer (2.5mL) Protank-II Style Bottom Coil Clearomizer"

There's no Kanger trademark anywhere there that I can see

Heh, except on the box where it says 'ProTank TM'

 

[ta2dave76]

Good eye, and thanks for reminding me. I'd rather have my cheap Honda than the name brand expensive Harley, which seems to break down a lot BTW. Never mind this Honda seems to be a deer magnet, that's a whole 'nother story. But really, it's a battery and a topper. Why does it have to be as expensive as The Crown Jewels to be worthy?

Whoa hang on a minute! Cloned motorcycles is where I draw the line! And my '09 HD has never broken down or been in the shop!


Seriously though, I just ordered an Atomo clone. Not from FT.

 

[Heavyrocker]

Im waiting for a clone of a clone,man i dont care if its ''real'' or a clone,as love as it keeps me off the cancer sticks.