CNBC No Smoking In Military

[Mac]

The difference is that these public smoking bans have been supported by the citizenry. They're almost exclusively measures that were approved by a vote.



The FDA has had regulatory authority over lethal substances since its very inception. Furthermore, the new legislation forbids them from banning nicotine and gives them very little regulatory authority over tobacco in general.



This is your one solid example, but it's important to remember that the Patriot Act was approved based on fear resulting from 9/11. It didn't just happen one day because some draconian government decided that it was time to wiretap citizens.

I thought that the military was governed differently then regular society. That is to say it's laws and regulations not decided democraticly? I thought that the soldiers had little or no say as to the rules they must follow...

 

[Surf Monkey]

I thought that the military was governed differently then regular society. That is to say it's laws and regulations not decided democraticly? I thought that the soldiers had little or no say as to the rules they must follow...

Correct, but your post was drawing a direct comparison between military policy and public policy.

 

[.308]

Most military policy is dictated on the "Post Level" ie: the overseeing general of said division. There is actually very little that congress/senate control over policies that do not have to do with actual "War fighting" with the exception of the "Smoking thing" and the "Gay thing"

 

[Mac]

Correct, but your post was drawing a direct comparison between military policy and public policy.

All I am saying is that however improbable and even idiotic it is not impossible and that writing it off is probably not the best way to prevent it. Isn't it time we stood up to our government's hypocrisy and called them on their bs?

 

[Surf Monkey]

All I am saying is that however improbable and even idiotic it is not impossible and that writing it off is probably not the best way to prevent it.

I didn't claim it was impossible. What I said was that it was highly unlikely.

Isn't it time we stood up to our government's hypocrisy and called them on their bs?

It's ALWAYS time to do that, but I'd submit to you that private citizens trying to change military policy is not the most effective strategy.

 

[Mac]

I didn't claim it was impossible. What I said was that it was highly unlikely.



It's ALWAYS time to do that, but I'd submit to you that private citizens trying to change military policy is not the most effective strategy.

What do you think the msost effective strategy would be?

 

[Surf Monkey]

What do you think the msost effective strategy would be?

Depends on the issue. In this case there doesn't appear to be much you can do because the policy decision is being made by Robert Gates (a cabinet appointee) on the advice of the Pentagon's "health experts." The only avenue open to you at this point would be to gather with like minded people and lobby your Senators and Congressman. Another way would be to join with veterans groups that oppose a ban.

 

[.308]

Depends on the issue. In this case there doesn't appear to be much you can do because the policy decision is being made by Robert Gates (a cabinet appointee) on the advice of the Pentagon's "health experts." The only avenue open to you at this point would be to gather with like minded people and lobby your Senators and Congressman. Another way would be to join with veterans groups that oppose a ban.

Or make campaign contributions of $1 Million +

 

[framitz]

I went through Air Force basic training in 1970. At that time there were sometimes smoke breaks and the smokers were allowed to get out of formation and relax for a few minutes. If you didn't smoke you had to stand at parade rest and wait for the smokers. It was close to 2 weeks before we got our first smoke break, I remember thinking how easy it would be to quit smoking then, but the privilege of leaving formation to smoke was stronger so we had about 30 guys chain smoking like fiends for 5 minutes at a time.

This caused a few of the guys to start smoking just so they could have the privilege too.

We've come a long way . . .

 

[Surf Monkey]

Or make campaign contributions of $1 Million +

Cynicism is just as damaging as blind optimism.

 

[.308]

Cynicism is just as damaging as blind optimism.

Whoa hold on there buddy, that's a statement of fact. Lobbyists don't work for free either you know. The golden rule: He who has the gold RULES.

 

[robbiehatfield]

Maybe they can ban lead pills in the military too? Hell, if both sides did this, it'd be an even healthier endeavor! LOL


Robbie

 

[four2109]

Defending a Constitution that doesn't apply to you.... and so it goes...

 

[brownbrown4]

I thought that the military was governed differently then regular society. That is to say it's laws and regulations not decided democraticly? I thought that the soldiers had little or no say as to the rules they must follow...

I'm a Sailor(10years) and mac is 100% right.
We defend "democracy" under a "dictatorship"
its just the way things are. follow orders or get locked up or kicked out.
It's too bad the military is turning more into a corporation than a fine tuned fighting machine.
No smoking? this will cause hell on ships. its bad enough when a carrier is doing an ammo onload and the smoking areas are closed for a couple hours.
with the stress of being away from home 6-10 months... and no crutch to help... people will die at a higher rate from loss of concentration, suicide, and more assults will occur.... mark my words..

 

[Sar]

Considering that it is very difficult to get 18 year olds to sign up for the military....

Hmm, perhaps they are planning to lower the age for new recruits by few years to get more bodies and the smoking ban is simply another one of those "protect our children" things.

 

[Mac]

I'm a Sailor(10years) and mac is 100% right.
We defend "democracy" under a "dictatorship"
its just the way things are. follow orders or get locked up or kicked out.
It's too bad the military is turning more into a corporation than a fine tuned fighting machine.
No smoking? this will cause hell on ships. its bad enough when a carrier is doing an ammo onload and the smoking areas are closed for a couple hours.
with the stress of being away from home 6-10 months... and no crutch to help... people will die at a higher rate from loss of concentration, suicide, and more assults will occur.... mark my words..

It's easy to pass laws and make rules and dictate terms when it's not you out there dodging bullets and rpg's. I only hope that this insanity is a non starter and doesn't become policy. just remember that there are those of us who actually appreciate the sacrifice you guys make while defending all of our freedoms.

 

[DaBrat]

Saw this story and thought it was hillarious since I STARTED smoking because of the military. In my day, the only way to get out of formation was to 'Smoke em if you got em'..lol!!! I was puffing and my DI crawled me telling me if I wasn't gonna inhale to put it out.... What a Joke!!!

 

[Surf Monkey]

Whoa hold on there buddy, that's a statement of fact. Lobbyists don't work for free either you know. The golden rule: He who has the gold RULES.

Lobbyists aren't the only ones who can effect change. Money talks but so do votes. Again, I suggest you look at what Spikey is doing. She's not spending millions of dollars on lobbyists, and yet she's been quite effective.

 

[DaBrat]

WHAT! they won't let the under ager drink either! If you sign up to defend our country, having a beer and/or a cigarette should be ok, IMO

WHAT???!!! They stopped under aged drinking too!!!?? The first time I got blotto was at KEssler AFB, MS at the Airman's Club8-o Couldn't drink off-base but certainly could on.

Rule was 'Old enuff to die, Old enuff to Drink!'

 

[brownbrown4]

It's easy to pass laws and make rules and dictate terms when it's not you out there dodging bullets and rpg's. I only hope that this insanity is a non starter and doesn't become policy. just remember that there are those of us who actually appreciate the sacrifice you guys make while defending all of our freedoms.

Thank you !!
its hard enough not to choke out half the people your stuck around for 12 hours a day 7 days a week... and no smoke break??? (for the smokers!) yea all bad!
WE have a joke in the navy/marine corps.... we defend the constitution, but it doesnt appy to US...
Not to say i dont love my job or the (ol' school navy). but its getting ridiculous as of the pat 5 years....