Coil confusion

[juicynoos]

I just don't get it! I have been going down that path of lower ohm builds for a few months now with my new mech's and rba's but for my kayfun's mostly have settled on 28 gauge kanthal 1 ohm coil build wrapped around a figure of 8 and a paper clip. I tried micro coils and chimney coils and various cotton sculptures with varying degrees of success...then
Today I used some 30 gauge wire and made a micro coil of 7 wraps and attached it to the kayfun lite..oh poop, it came out at 3 ohms. Oh well, I carefully wicked it with a fluffy chunk of organic cotton; juiced it up and to my surprise it produced a substantial warm cloud of tasty vapour!!

I admit that I used more than 4 volts on an MVP but presto! same happy result as with a 1 ohm coil.
How did this happen?

 

[crxess]

It is called all things being equal.

You made a decent working coil.
You did a decent wick.
Your Air flow is acceptable for the device and coil
You have enough regulated power to run the coil efficiently.

You can run a 5ohm coil under the right conditions and get the same results.

 

[juicynoos]

What I am trying to grasp here is what direction to take with vaping safely and the unknowns regarding sub-ohming's effects on the e liquids. It has been an interesting 6 month journey so far but find myself at an interesting fork in the road. It seems that higher ohm builds driven by regulated mods with more volts can give me the same satisfaction as sub-ohm builds but find myself in unfamiliar territory.

Should I be looking to buy a regulated box mod which offers higher voltage range rather than spending a small fortune on authentic mech mods that can only deliver 4 volts or so?

 

[rusirius]

Not to toot my own horn... LOL, but I recently did a post regarding just this topic... Have a look... Clicky Clicky

 

[DaveP]

It's all about heat, wicking, and airflow. Wattage is the consummate measure of heat, being the result of a given voltage across a given resistance. Change either and the wattage changes, so you can go up in voltage and resistance and maintain the same wattage. Go lower in resistance or higher in voltage and you raise the wattage.

It's like driving a car. You can go the same speed in any gear. The RPM's just have to change.

Play with the numbers here to see the variables change.
Ohm's Law Calculator

The higher you go in wattage, the more efficiently you have to load the juice into the wick. More airflow is necessary to prevent a super hot vape. It's why mech users are usually drippers. They can control the juice feed more exactly. Kayfun and other RBA's are able to keep up with the juice feed to use higher vaping voltages a little better than stock off the shelf atomizer cartridges. That, and you have more latitude with the way you make and implement the wick.

 

[ProjektMayhem]

What I am trying to grasp here is what direction to take with vaping safely and the unknowns regarding sub-ohming's effects on the e liquids. It has been an interesting 6 month journey so far but find myself at an interesting fork in the road. It seems that higher ohm builds driven by regulated mods with more volts can give me the same satisfaction as sub-ohm builds but find myself in unfamiliar territory.

Should I be looking to buy a regulated box mod which offers higher voltage range rather than spending a small fortune on authentic mech mods that can only deliver 4 volts or so?

That's what I did. I was looking at mech mods for a while because I thought that was the only way is was going to be able to get good flavor and vapor production. But I ended up getting a 100 watt box mod and I build around 1 ohm and get the same results I would have with a mech. Not to mention it's a lot safer because of all the different protection and using a lot less amperage.

 

[Ryedan]

What I am trying to grasp here is what direction to take with vaping safely and the unknowns regarding sub-ohming's effects on the e liquids. It has been an interesting 6 month journey so far but find myself at an interesting fork in the road. It seems that higher ohm builds driven by regulated mods with more volts can give me the same satisfaction as sub-ohm builds but find myself in unfamiliar territory.

Should I be looking to buy a regulated box mod which offers higher voltage range rather than spending a small fortune on authentic mech mods that can only deliver 4 volts or so?

If you're after an explanation of how tings work, read the post rusirius linked to. It's very informative

My opinion is go with the regulated mods. I was where you are now 1 1/2 years ago. I went with mechanical mods because there was nothing in the high powered regulated market at the time. I'm very comfortable with them now, they are working very well for me and I believe the vape is safe. I design my coil builds so there is enough coil surface area and wicking speed to handle the amount of heat pumped into them. I think. Dr Farsalinos is doing some new research into this that will hopefully give us all some definitive answers.

If I was currently where you are now I'm pretty sure I would go the regulated, high power route. It offers more options in coil design and that can only help with any direction safety requirements take us in the future. The only thing that might hold me back is the quality of the mods out there now. The DNA40 board has also just come out with temperature control built in. Temperature control should be a great addition to our safety tool arsenal. I would probably wait to see how that board pans out in a couple of months before taking that plunge. There is also a higher power clone coming out soon, so if 40 watts isn't enough there is that.

Trying out one of the better mech mod clones is also very inexpensive and the mod will last you a long time. At worst, it will become a backup for future use should your regulated mod fail.

 

[MattyTny]

When building there is no doubt you must take your resistance into consideration. I feel like coil structure and build space is overlooked sometimes. When you look at your PV, a MVP, a IPV2, a vapor shark, a mech, whatever it may be, you need to see the possibilities in combination with your RBA. A member here taught me that, it's advice you hear once, but then slowly start learning yourself.

First seeing the limitation of your PV and what it can fire and handle, then seeing the build space and possibilities with your RBA will give you insight as to what you what to install. When you see people going low on ohms, it's either a preference or for a reason. For example I only have an MVP2, I'm on a budget, but I make it work with my ZenithV2 clone and my KFL+ clone. I know that too low of a resistance and I start bumping against my amp limit, so I want to stay at a certain resistance. Then I see the possibilities with kanthal gauges, how many wraps I can fit for surface area and heat up time. How big should my coil I.D. be for the wicking I want? Do I want to do something out of the ordinary, say a single coil, but split into two coils, two loads in series? Once I figure all that out it leads me to my target resistance because I take into consideration what I'll be wrapping on and what gauge kanthal I'll use to get the amount of wraps I want.
(I try to stay around 1.5-2.0ohms on my MVP)
My bottleneck on my setup is my device, but I'm not going back to using clearos because I know I can customize my build to cater to what I want. Don't think my resistance needs to be "X"ohms, think about what you can put in there that will work well with your device.

 

[DaveP]

I agree with Ryedan and MattyTny. These days the regulated mod with a little more power is the way to go. It's always better to get a fault code in the display when you make a grave mistake and create a short. The alternative with too low ohms or a short in a mech just may involve smoke and vapor on the wrong end, battery spew, or worse.

The MVP seems to be doing the job for you. 1 ohm is around the basic low resistance range for most regulated VV/VW mods. Sounds like that's where you want to be. You can always crank the voltage a little more and get the same wattage from a 1+ ohm coil in a VV/VW mod. With a mech there's no dial up-dial down to match your taste. You have to get it right or start over.

 

[edyle]

What I am trying to grasp here is what direction to take with vaping safely and the unknowns regarding sub-ohming's effects on the e liquids. It has been an interesting 6 month journey so far but find myself at an interesting fork in the road. It seems that higher ohm builds driven by regulated mods with more volts can give me the same satisfaction as sub-ohm builds but find myself in unfamiliar territory.

Should I be looking to buy a regulated box mod which offers higher voltage range rather than spending a small fortune on authentic mech mods that can only deliver 4 volts or so?

1:
The eliquid doesn't care whether you sub ohm or not; all the eliquid cares about is TEMPERATURE.

2:
I guess the answer is yes.
The demand for high powered vaping has fueled the development of multi-battery mods that will safely deliver the high power.

A mech is always good to have but not worth spending a small fortune on when you can't afford it.
There is also the question of the flat voltage output of a mech, so if anybody finds it actually tastes different, for them it might be worth more to use a mech in high wattage application.

 

[DaveP]

There's a culture of hobbyists who think a car has to have 400+ HP and a $1000 exhaust system to drive down the street and impress people. Vaping is getting a little bit like that. Whatever floats your boat!

 

[juicynoos]

Thanks rusirius for that link, very helpful.

 

[juicynoos]

If you're after an explanation of how tings work, read the post rusirius linked to. It's very informative

My opinion is go with the regulated mods. I was where you are now 1 1/2 years ago. I went with mechanical mods because there was nothing in the high powered regulated market at the time. I'm very comfortable with them now, they are working very well for me and I believe the vape is safe. I design my coil builds so there is enough coil surface area and wicking speed to handle the amount of heat pumped into them. I think. Dr Farsalinos is doing some new research into this that will hopefully give us all some definitive answers.

If I was currently where you are now I'm pretty sure I would go the regulated, high power route. It offers more options in coil design and that can only help with any direction safety requirements take us in the future. The only thing that might hold me back is the quality of the mods out there now. The DNA40 board has also just come out with temperature control built in. Temperature control should be a great addition to our safety tool arsenal. I would probably wait to see how that board pans out in a couple of months before taking that plunge. There is also a higher power clone coming out soon, so if 40 watts isn't enough there is that.

Trying out one of the better mech mod clones is also very inexpensive and the mod will last you a long time. At worst, it will become a backup for future use should your regulated mod fail.

Thank you for your input. I think I will take your advice and manage with what I have for now and wait to see how the new generation of regulated mods with higher wattage's and temperature control perform in the longer run as well as some other issues I have read about concerning issues with the temperature control feature conflicting wattage output.

 

[juicynoos]

There's a culture of hobbyists who think a car has to have 400+ HP and a $1000 exhaust system to drive down the street and impress people. Vaping is getting a little bit like that. Whatever floats your boat!

I think what floats my boat is probably what floats yours! Music is my profession and not smoking anymore is one of my goals which I consider to be achieved. I am just looking to maintain without the 'flash' but rather with solid functionality and learning. I can't really afford to show off even if I wanted to!

 

[juicynoos]

When building there is no doubt you must take your resistance into consideration. I feel like coil structure and build space is overlooked sometimes. When you look at your PV, a MVP, a IPV2, a vapor shark, a mech, whatever it may be, you need to see the possibilities in combination with your RBA. A member here taught me that, it's advice you hear once, but then slowly start learning yourself.

First seeing the limitation of your PV and what it can fire and handle, then seeing the build space and possibilities with your RBA will give you insight as to what you what to install. When you see people going low on ohms, it's either a preference or for a reason. For example I only have an MVP2, I'm on a budget, but I make it work with my ZenithV2 clone and my KFL+ clone. I know that too low of a resistance and I start bumping against my amp limit, so I want to stay at a certain resistance. Then I see the possibilities with kanthal gauges, how many wraps I can fit for surface area and heat up time. How big should my coil I.D. be for the wicking I want? Do I want to do something out of the ordinary, say a single coil, but split into two coils, two loads in series? Once I figure all that out it leads me to my target resistance because I take into consideration what I'll be wrapping on and what gauge kanthal I'll use to get the amount of wraps I want.
(I try to stay around 1.5-2.0ohms on my MVP)
My bottleneck on my setup is my device, but I'm not going back to using clearos because I know I can customize my build to cater to what I want. Don't think my resistance needs to be "X"ohms, think about what you can put in there that will work well with your device.

I'm beginning to see the light MattyTny. This was what I was beginning to feel but I now see that one needs to look at the whole rather than the part, many thanks for the advice.

 

[juicynoos]

Not to toot my own horn... LOL, but I recently did a post regarding just this topic... Have a look... Clicky Clicky

I think you can go ahead and blow your own trumpet, rusirius. Although my artistic nature was revolting at the science, curiosity on this subject and my need to move forward devoured your point!!! Thanks man

 

[DaveP]

I think what floats my boat is probably what floats yours! Music is my profession and not smoking anymore is one of my goals which I consider to be achieved. I am just looking to maintain without the 'flash' but rather with solid functionality and learning. I can't really afford to show off even if I wanted to!

I think you are right. There was a time when I thought my Gibson Magnum 800 amplifier (800 watts into 8-12" CTS speakers) was necessary. Now, I play a 60 watt 1-12" tube amp mic'ed into a good house PA. I let the FOH sound guy do the rest and mix it all together. If I'm too loud or too faint in the house mix, it's his problem. I can hear and adjust my personal mix in my stage monitor backpack with earbuds.

Edyle wrote: "The eliquid doesn't care whether you sub ohm or not; all the eliquid cares about is TEMPERATURE."

Very true. That, and air flow.