Coil prep question...

[IDJoel]

Hi all,
I seem to have hit a wall and feel like I am missing something really simple. Please don't laugh.

I am having an issue with pre-heating my coils. I am working with kanthol wire. I am building for both single and dual coil, drip, and tank atomizers.

The problem is I can wind the perfect coil/coils, get them installed in perfect position, and they vape with good production but taste like doo-doo.

The problem (I think/am guessing) is the coil prep/dry burn. In researching the problem; the most common suggestion is to preheat the coil to get a gold/blue color to the coil. When I try this (pre-heating a coil before inserting a wick) It either does not change color, or, creates a "scale" on the coil (which I know will gunk the coil almost immediately). And, the results are predictably, bad.

I have tried: preheating the wire with a propane torch before winding (and not), heating and/or forming the coil and then dry-burned to dull orange, bright orange, dull yellow, and bright yellow (I haven't been brave enough to go beyond that except once and that resulted in a burn-through of the coil).

So what am I missing?

(BTW) I am using clear, or almost clear, juice; at 50/50 to 70/30 (VG/PG)

 

[Nikea Tiber]

Kanthal won't turn a blue/yellow with heat oxidation. You must have it confused with nichrome. Kanthal oxidizes to a dark grey.
As for flavor, maybe try a different wicking material and don't neglect to clean your gear and keep it that way.
The coil itself is only part of the equation; if it is poorly wicked so it doesn't feed you can get okay vapor but scorched cotton flavor. If you have multiple coils make sure they are heating evenly. If one of your coils heats faster than the other you can get great vapor until the hot coil dries out its cotton. Depending on how great the difference in heat time is it may not be noticeable when your drip well is full.
You could have a hot leg issue. Observe how your coils fire, and look at the cotton afterwards. A coil heating faster than the other will present itself as an uneven darkening of your wicks.
Hope this helps.

 

[Bunnykiller]

what your missing is the truth.... kanthal wont change to the color you have been told it would... it goes a bit darker ( greyish to brown) depending on how hard you dry burn it.... there are two reasons to dry burn a new coil
1. to burn off any lubricants from the wire forming machine
2. to allow a coating of oxides to form to help "insulate" each coil wrap from each other....

 

[edyle]

dry fire the coil and it should turn just dull red and burn off any machine oil on it


after that you wick the coil, and juice it up

 

[Bunnykiller]

btw, is the mandarin goby yours??

I had one but the minniatus grouper scared him and the goby slimed the tank... lost about 5 fish...

 

[IDJoel]

Kanthal won't turn a blue/yellow with heat oxidation. You must have it confused with nichrome. Kanthal oxidizes to a dark grey.
As for flavor, maybe try a different wicking material and don't neglect to clean your gear and keep it that way.
The coil itself is only part of the equation; if it is poorly wicked so it doesn't feed you can get okay vapor but scorched cotton flavor. If you have multiple coils make sure they are heating evenly. If one of your coils heats faster than the other you can get great vapor until the hot coil dries out its cotton. Depending on how great the difference in heat time is it may not be noticeable when your drip well is full.
You could have a hot leg issue. Observe how your coils fire, and look at the cotton afterwards. A coil heating faster than the other will present itself as an uneven darkening of your wicks.
Hope this helps.

Thanks Nikea, that helps. None of the (youtube) videos I watched specified what type of wire they were using and I (my fault) assumed they were using kanthol. Wicking certainly can be part of my problem; as I am still experimenting with type of material ( cotton, ko gen do Japanese cotton, and rayon), as well density of each wick formed (tighter vs. looser fill of the coil).
I do match my coils in dual builds for equal heating and always check for hot legs. But having learned to wind repeatable, consistent coils, and taking care with placement these are rarely a problem.
Thanks again, I really do appreciate both your taking the time and your advise.

 

[IDJoel]

what your missing is the truth.... kanthal wont change to the color you have been told it would... it goes a bit darker ( greyish to brown) depending on how hard you dry burn it.... there are two reasons to dry burn a new coil
1. to burn off any lubricants from the wire forming machine
2. to allow a coating of oxides to form to help "insulate" each coil wrap from each other....

Thanks Bunnykiller,
This sounds like the results I have been getting (ashy grey to almost black). The oxides ("scale" as I had thought of it) as an insulator makes sense. I was concerned this was just creating a (granted; very fine) semi-porous surface that would just accelerate the build-up of the "gunk."
I appreciate your taking the time.

 

[IDJoel]

btw, is the mandarin goby yours??

I had one but the minniatus grouper scared him and the goby slimed the tank... lost about 5 fish...

I'm afraid I don't have the discipline to maintain a salt water aquarium (or fresh for that matter ). But I did get to suba dive with a few two years ago in the Philippines.
I can't even take credit for the photo; its a stock pic. I just think they're a beautiful creature and find their behavior fascinating. I also used almost half a tank of gas just watching a yellow-headed jaw fish build and defend its nest(hole) on the same trip. Don't even get me started on the mantis shrimp(s?) .

My apologies to all; I know this was W A Y

 

[Boden]

I'm guessing you are making contact coils.

1. Make coil and mount it.
2. Put base on mod and fire it for just a second. The legs will probably glow a bit.
3. Scrape a small screwdriver across the coil lightly.
4. Fire it for another second, the coil will glow a bit but not evenly.
5. Scrape the coil again.
6. Fire it again, this time the coil should glow evenly, if it does not scrape it again and fire.
7. Wick and juice the coil.
8. Fire it again to make sure it makes vapors
9. Assemble tank or RDA etc.
10. Enjoy

 

[Boden]

Funky flavor can be caused by making coils with too large a diameter or width (too large for air-stream) or coils mounted too far from or close to air port.

 

[ImThatGuy]

Great pointers from everyone. Here's a nice wicking technique that I use.



This is a great wicking method.

 

[IDJoel]

I'm guessing you are making contact coils.

1. Make coil and mount it.
2. Put base on mod and fire it for just a second. The legs will probably glow a bit.
3. Scrape a small screwdriver across the coil lightly.
4. Fire it for another second, the coil will glow a bit but not evenly.
5. Scrape the coil again.
6. Fire it again, this time the coil should glow evenly, if it does not scrape it again and fire.
7. Wick and juice the coil.
8. Fire it again to make sure it makes vapors
9. Assemble tank or RDA etc.
10. Enjoy

Thanks Boden,
I do something similar to this but I use my jig pin to "scrape" internally and make sure I am not deforming shape and position. Method is different, but the results are the same: fresh coil gives hot center, pass dowel through first time; now coil glows more evenly from center out, second pass with dowel; now coil glows almost instantaneously across its width. Wick and juice.

 

[IDJoel]

Funky flavor can be caused by making coils with too large a diameter or width (too large for air-stream) or coils mounted too far from or close to air port.

I haven't thought about this! my go-to is 2.5 to 2.85mm. I've tried 2mm and its o k but not great, and was not a fan of anything smaller (tried 1.5 and even1.0) but these just were crazy hot, not to mention a real pain in the rear to wick.

 

[IDJoel]

Great pointers from everyone. Here's a nice wicking technique that I use.



This is a great wicking method.

I haven't seen this one, just watched, looks worth a try. I'll give it a shot on my next wick.
Thanks!

 

[XRaptureX]

dry fire the coil and it should turn just dull red

I was so happy to see this post. I've gone to rewick my coils a few times and seen them this red color... I thought they were rusting. Feeling better now.

End of line.

 

[Firestorm]

I've been building 2mm coils for my RTAs and RDAs lately and I've recently got back into submersible atomizers like the Sophia and Diver v2 where I've had great success building 1.25mm coils inside a small ceramic cup. I use KGD and roll my wicks similar to Rip for all coil sizes, but I don't totally deform and pull apart the pad. I peel off the top and pull off additional evenly thin layers that I roll as I need them. Sometimes I roll a great fitting wick that I trim and have excess for next time.

Sometimes I torch my wound Kanthal contact coils using a butane torch while compressed using tweezers and sometimes I install them on my deck and fire and compress them with tweezers as the coils cool. I don't shoot for anything brighter than an orange when I torch or dry burn, it really doesn't take much to oxidize or burn off contaminants and gunk.

 

[bigrf85]

i usually will build my atty then check my ohms followed by pulse glowing my coils and fidgeting with them to get them glowing evenly from inside out and at the same rate then i will wick it juice them up and then put a topcap on it and usually there is a short break in period for your wicking media then all seems to be fine from there.