I would like to see the outcome of said usage. Especially at the micrometer level to see the ceramic insulator and how that would affect coverage.I generally use a soft brass brush after dry burning.
Good, bad or irrelevant?
Tapatyped
Coil under electron microscope
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Tapatyped
alien Traveler" data-source="post: 15982439" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">alien Traveler said:
Very cool. Thanks for doing this. I wish I could use the electron microscopy facilities at work for personal research, but that's not possible. I like my job and my paycheck.
Nice to see the thick, adherent aluminum oxide layer on the dry burned clean coil. As it should be. This is when a Kanthal coil is at its best - releasing virtually nothing of concern into the vape. It would be interesting to see the surface and spectrum of a coil after multiple dry burns, once the aluminum in the near-surface region is depleted, and the chromium and iron get to compete to form the oxide layer. Hopefully, it still looks pretty smooth and adherent. Would be nice to know.
The various mineral deposits on the coil after dry burn aren't too surprising. For reference, here's the home page for a chemical distributor to Food & Flavor ingredient suppliers:
http://www.emcochem.com/docs/Food__Flavors.pdf
A quick look at their list of products will show many chemicals which contain the elements which are present in the EDS spectrum of the dry burn deposits. Fortunately most of these deposits are rather large particles, and the high magnification image shows them to be pretty well fused together. It seems unlikely that they end up generating any significant volume of nanoparticles in the vapor, which could be problematic. If they remain relatively large, standard scientific advice would seem to be that they should be mostly a minor irritant.
One of the main reasons I douse my coils in running water while dry burning them is to thermally shock the burned scale and rinse it away. Visual inspection by the naked eye says the coils are much cleaner after this process. Hopefully I'm not doing too much damage to the aluminum oxide scale when I do this - I'm not really sure. But I'm fairly confident that it reforms and provides a continuous protective layer in short order. At least until the coils get too old. I try to rebuild before then.
Thanks again.
More fun:
23 Objects Seen thru an Electron Microscope | iTILT
check first the "household dust" aka what is transported via the "fresh air" that Antz are so fond of.
And you don't want to know what's on your tongue.
23 Objects Seen thru an Electron Microscope | iTILT
check first the "household dust" aka what is transported via the "fresh air" that Antz are so fond of.
And you don't want to know what's on your tongue.
Nebulis, twgbonehead asked for a pathway, i offered a possible one and know the thread you mentioned. Of course flavour has an influence. Latest observations by the same member showed a remarkable reduction of gunk builup by using a TC-mod and he washed that gunk of with water. He did no tests with airfilters.
My conclusion: "coilkiller" flavours degrade under high temperatures to something that hardly evaporates and forms a kind of glue that catches dust, baking together to the crusts we all know. Organic compounds in dust may also degrade when they touch (too) hot wires forming a "matrix" to catch the inert, mineralic part of dustparticles - that could explain raidys observation with pure PG.
Greets
My conclusion: "coilkiller" flavours degrade under high temperatures to something that hardly evaporates and forms a kind of glue that catches dust, baking together to the crusts we all know. Organic compounds in dust may also degrade when they touch (too) hot wires forming a "matrix" to catch the inert, mineralic part of dustparticles - that could explain raidys observation with pure PG.
Greets
The maggot is awesome.
I'm going to dress like that next Halloween!
I'm going to dress like that next Halloween!
OK, maybe I'm an ol' curmudgeon and don't have da new patronizing pampering PC attitude of today down pat. BUT, day-um, WHAT DA FRACK with da aggression toward Alien Traveler?
Ya'll must realize that he only posted a couple of EM pics and a spectral graph which is deeply appreciated. That alone should motivate those that can, and should, examine and interpret both to attempt to answer all of our questions. In fact, why has not our 'vaping industry suppliers' embraced the mission? Shame on them, not AT! Hell, even our 'protective government' hasn't proffered such research/evidence with our endle$$ deep pocket$!
Ask and inquire, hell yeah! But attack AT, FOAD! Shame on those that ask more of an ECF member than they do of those that can fund/find results! <sigh>
AT, thank you, my fellow concerned vaper!
Ya'll must realize that he only posted a couple of EM pics and a spectral graph which is deeply appreciated. That alone should motivate those that can, and should, examine and interpret both to attempt to answer all of our questions. In fact, why has not our 'vaping industry suppliers' embraced the mission? Shame on them, not AT! Hell, even our 'protective government' hasn't proffered such research/evidence with our endle$$ deep pocket$!
Ask and inquire, hell yeah! But attack AT, FOAD! Shame on those that ask more of an ECF member than they do of those that can fund/find results! <sigh>
AT, thank you, my fellow concerned vaper!
Actually, it's quite possible that the silicon comes from the e=liquid:
http://www.emcochem.com/docs/Food__Flavors.pdf
See "anti caking" agents, in particular.
The unexplained does not give me such problems. I suppose looking out at the night sky does bother some. It is unreasonable to expect everything to be fully explained.
Good job AT I now know more than I did but not everything and that does not bother me. I am just grateful for each bit of additional knowledge.
I hope some of the responses here does not cause you not to post similar information in the future.
Good job AT I now know more than I did but not everything and that does not bother me. I am just grateful for each bit of additional knowledge.
I hope some of the responses here does not cause you not to post similar information in the future.
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Let me try and answer that for you, beck...
If you look at the first page, you'll see my comments on using a soft, fine wire, bronze bristle brush on coils, more specifically on "gunkified" coils... abused with solids, sweeteners, colorants - what have you.
I don't have images, but I do look at my coils from time to time with a 15X loupe... 'cause I'm one of those guys.
After a dry burn sufficient to turn most contaminants to an ashy, crust... a light brushing produces a coil surface that, at 15X, for lack of a better term, has a light orange peel finish... with no holes, pits, pockets or flaking.
Without magnification, it's just smooth, clean, silver to silver/blue, frosty metallic in appearance.
When I do see holes, pits, pockets or flaking... typically along with dark iron/chromium visible through the alumina layer... it's well past time to make a new coil.
ThanksLet me try and answer that for you, beck...
If you look at the first page, you'll see my comments on using a soft, fine wire, bronze bristle brush on coils, more specifically on "gunkified" coils... abused with solids, sweeteners, colorants - what have you.
I don't have images, but I do look at my coils from time to time with a 15X loupe... 'cause I'm one of those guys.
After a dry burn sufficient to turn most contaminants to an ashy, crust... a light brushing produces a coil surface that, at 15X, for lack of a better term, has a light orange peel finish... with no holes, pits, pockets or flaking.
Without magnification, it's just smooth, clean, silver to silver/blue, frosty metallic in appearance.
When I do see holes, pits, pockets or flaking... typically along with dark iron/chromium visible through the alumina layer... it's well past time to make a new coil.
I appreciate the effort.
But i was thinking more along the lines of in reference to konstantino farsalinos' and Pedros (I hope that's the right name) assertions vs. Those of the metallurgists. Pictorial evidence that supports one side of the other in enough scenarios to end the speculation and debate.
I respect your opinion and believe your experience to be true more than likely. I'd actually be curious what you could quantify and what you might be able to show for examples.
Tapatyped
Let me try and answer that for you, beck...
If you look at the first page, you'll see my comments on using a soft, fine wire, bronze bristle brush on coils, more specifically on "gunkified" coils... abused with solids, sweeteners, colorants - what have you.
I don't have images, but I do look at my coils from time to time with a 15X loupe... 'cause I'm one of those guys.
After a dry burn sufficient to turn most contaminants to an ashy, crust... a light brushing produces a coil surface that, at 15X, for lack of a better term, has a light orange peel finish... with no holes, pits, pockets or flaking.
Without magnification, it's just smooth, clean, silver to silver/blue, frosty metallic in appearance.
When I do see holes, pits, pockets or flaking... typically along with dark iron/chromium visible through the alumina layer... it's well past time to make a new coil.
This sounds like a very reasonable approach to coil management. Perfect for those guys.
Discoloration of a clean coil after dry burning almost certainly means the aluminum has been mostly consumed. And the coil surface is no longer "Kanthal-like". Time for a new coil, in my estimation, to be sure.
This sounds like a very reasonable approach to coil management. Perfect for those guys.
Discoloration of a clean coil after dry burning almost certainly means the aluminum has been mostly consumed. And the coil surface is no longer "Kanthal-like". Time for a new coil, in my estimation, to be sure.
Very early in my study of clearo build techniques and contact coils which by then encompassed hundreds of t.m.c.'s I was actively testing wet/dry burn. Simply adding small drops to pulsing from a needle nose to start and expedite the process. These coils I found behaved a lot like unoxidized contact coils (markedly hotter). Cut the excersise short suspecting as you do some significant loss of alumina (or that I was simply overdoing it). I was also concerned that rapid temp change and differentials across the wire surface might contribute damage to the alumina or underlying metals (cracking). As I was focused on crafting rebuilding approaches for new vapers I didn't want to introduce more problems than I solved.
I'll revisit this on some builds as pulsing less is the way to go. Alumina reduction hasn't been the main reason I replace coils for my own use but the consequences of thermal expansion (warping) which eventually skews contact somewhere and handling of course. And then it's the resulting efficiency loss (gunking) which requires compression as a fix but it's never the same once minute gaps arise. Gotta toss these. It's like chasin' rabbits. So I'm running 4-6 weeks on replacement. I vape a lot of complex juices. Survivability is desirable when you use a lot of mods as I do. Thx for posting the question. An interesting topic.
Good luck all.
I generally use a soft brass brush after dry burning.
Good, bad or irrelevant?
Where do you get those brushes?
I was using pipe cleaners, which seemed like a good idea. Today I checked before and after with a magnifying glass. I found quite a few small scraps of cotton from the pipe cleaner trapped between the wraps of the coil after pre-dry burn cleaning. I assume it's cotton. Probably not organic or safe in any other way. And if I hadn't looked I would have dry burned the coil and roasted those cotton scraps.
Probably still use pipe cleaners to clear juice and other gunk out of the pipework, but not on the coil.
I wonder how many Liquid Flavorants have Anti Caking agents in them?
No idea, especially since these flavorings are not really formulated for mixing e-liquids. Probably best to just make your own extracts and use those. Lots more work and $$$ - most vendors just buy flavorings & mix 'em up. Even then, they're at the mercy of the ingredients in whatever they extract their flavors from.
It's still probably safer than eating at your favorite fast food restaurant.
I wonder how Many Flavorants used in e-Liquids start their Life in Powdered Form? Verses Liquid Form.
Not much use for an Anti Caking agent if the Flavorant was made in Liquid Form.
Yeah, I don't know. Point is, it took about five seconds to find additives containing silicon. They're also present in emulsifiers on that single suppliers list. Bet I can find more if I try ...
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