Community or business

[RickPBush]

I'd like some feedback from folks out there.

I have a pet hate. I guess I'm a bit of a socialist at heart and the thing that's annoying me is that people are selling stuff for more than its RRP because it's rare and otherwise unobtainable.

It just stinks of greed to me. I appreciate the powers of market forces and all but the word community has to mean something, aren't we all supposed to trying to help each other out?

There is a very limited supply of kit out there if you want a rebuild-able etc and it would be nice to think that the people who have gotten on the lists and bought this stuff only to find they want rid of it would sell it to somebody else to try at the same price they paid.

It occurs to me that this is a business, not a community.

I think we should share the love and to this end I think that I'm only going to sell stuff for the same price I paid or less. There are other people out there who are being priced out and not able to try this kit. I go to work to earn my living and don't see my hobby as a revenue stream. What say you?

 

[gthompson]

People have the right to make a profit in this country.

 

[tj99959]

buy high - sell low only guarantees poverty.

 

[ranger 1110]

That's a wonderful sentiment but because there is such a high demand for a lot of this stuff people don't mind paying over the odds for a piece of equipment they otherwise would never get to try. Capitalism and cash is king unfortunately.

 

[six]

As with all things, buyers set the price, not sellers. Your complaint should be at those who pay what you consider to be an inflated price. If they didn't buy it, the seller(s) would reduce what they are asking.

Furthermore, what is rare and desirable today will be either worthless and defunct or will be copied, mass produced, and run-of-the-mill tomorrow. That's just how it goes. For a relatively recent example, ask Most Angry Pirate how these things occur. A year and a half ago, he was cranking out MAP tanks and they were selling like hotcakes. He couldn't keep up with demand and it was pretty easy to resell a $25 MAP tank for $35 or $40. It took about 6 months and there were at least a dozen or more people making CE2 tanks, and all but a couple sold for less than MAPs... then you couldn't get $15 for that $25 MAP tank... and then dual coil tanks came and rendered CE2 tanks mostly obsolete...

 

[Mariwashere]

There are plenty of affordable options out there, it doesn't sound like you're talking about something people *need* but rare and interesting toys they want. Rare typically costs more; that's not taking advantage of someone in need. The mall and convention kiosks that sell cigarette look-a-like kits for eighty dollars are the greedy jerks taking advantage of people.

 

[RickPBush]

Well, thanks for the replies. It would seem that the consensus of opinion is that it is ok to sell above RRP.

I totally accept that point of view and also accept this is the way things need to be but that does little to alleviate the feeling that wells inside when I see it happen, I don't know why I feel this way, I run my own business and deal in second hand computer equipment so my head says it's fine but my heart says it's wrong.

I probably have this airy fairy notion that this new hobby and the community surrounding it is soft and cuddly. I guess I need to step back to reality.

 

[Levitas]

Not everyone is out just to make a buck. I've given away 100s of mls of juice. I've sold merchandise for less than what it was worth, though I probably could have churned a profit (I personally wouldn't feel right doing so).

At the same time, I feel people have that right, if they so choose, to inflate, or buy up rare products to sell for more than actual worth. It doesn't affect me, personally, because I simply will never purchase it, lol.

 

[LucentShadow]

I'd guess that the classifieds, which I am not interested in, is largely what you're talking about.

I'd bet that there is some scalping going on there, as well as some legitimate selling at various price points.

Personally, I've never met a person who uses newspaper classifieds to sell something, and didn't always start at a price that was too high for me to consider. Doesn't mean that's always the case, in all classifieds, obviosly.

If I don't want something, I either just keep it anyway, sell it at some loss, or give it to someone. I don't like haggling, either. I think that I'm a bit odd.

 

[AttyPops]

Well, I think there are special cases. Either
1) Rarity
2) restriction of competition (improper enforcement of monopoly laws, for example).

Overall this seems like a market with a lot of competition and competitive pricing. Certain specialty items are ... unique and can command more.

So I don't see the problem. If something is sold above Recommended Retail Price... it must be that there's no competition or there's price fixing.

Unless you're complaining about the price of an ECF t-shirt or business cards... this is a community, but it has approved vendors and classifieds.

 

[dokebilee]

Supply and Demand. Also, it is cliche for me to say this but "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder." If I want something really bad and also rare to obtain, then I will be glad to pay extra for that product, and that extra depends on the quality of the product, used or new. What people charge for a product and what people are willing to give up for a product, is entirely up to them. If someone wants a product but doesn't have the cash to obtain it, then go get a job and build up some monetary value for your wallet, and for yourself. I work my ... off and if I see a product that I want, which is priced accordingly, then I will let them take my money.

It is just the way of the world. Scarcity exists my friend.

 

[Ralikar]

The hippie commune model went out in the 60s...

You understand the ECF people are making money on our posts/memberships/hit counts here, too... ECF is a business for them... and a community for us.

 

[RickPBush]

Hi, I'm only talking about the classifieds, people buy things like Wizards and Lines and then sell them on for more than they cost. This means late comers to the party have to pay more for them because their not available commercially and when they are their out of stock. New vapers don't get to try them out unless they pay through the nose.

 

[Apptiger]

There are anti-trust laws around and collusion /deception aside, the market will generally level itself out and take care of itself over time. Basically something should be worth what someone will pay for it minus market manipulation and deception/ collusion. Artificial limits both high and low generally act as an indirect tax on someone.

 

[oxygen thief]

I haven't been to the classifieds but I bet things are spelled out to a T. This whole argument is bizarre, people are responsible for themselves. Do your homework and if you still can't live without it, buy it. Who knows, the guy who buys it may be reselling them for more profit.
This is a community and every community has it's ripoff artists. If you don't do your homework and you get ripped off, look in the mirror. The search key might help you next time.

 

[synthros]

+1, amen. I feel like part of a community here on ECF, but the market for high end, rare and exotic devices is global. It's not all kittens and unicorns, but ultimately demand determines price, and there are a lot of people with deep pockets. I think mariwashere nailed it!

There are plenty of affordable options out there, it doesn't sound like you're talking about something people *need* but rare and interesting toys they want. Rare typically costs more; that's not taking advantage of someone in need. The mall and convention kiosks that sell cigarette look-a-like kits for eighty dollars are the greedy jerks taking advantage of people.

 

[gthompson]

New vapers don't get to try them out unless they pay through the nose.

New vapers should probably stick with Volts and eGos.

 

[Spazmelda]

I'm a hippy dippy liberal, I've been told, but I 100% agree with the supply and demand arguments here. It's frustrating that people will buy up limited items, depleting the stock, and then charge more for them, BUT they had the patience and wherewithal to sit at the computer and keep up to date on release dates, And the smarts and capital to make the purchases, etc... So I figure that's a service they they can expect to make a profit on. And if there was nobody willing to pay that much, they'd quit doing it. Part of this is also an effect of the business models of some companies, IMO. I think that some companies deliberately do small runs of certain models and hype the hell out of them (building up anticipation of the release date) in order to enhance the perception that they are special and rare. This business model is obviously quite successful for some companies, but it has to be expected that buying and reselling for a profit is going to be a result.

When my daughter was 3, my parents bought her a play kitchen. She wanted The Little Mermaid, but my mom ordered Dora by mistake. I decided to sell the Dora one on eBay instead of returning it. I had no idea that the Dora kitchen had since sold out and people were going berserk trying to find them. I watched in amazement as the bids continued to increase on the Dora kitchen and ended up more than doubling the original purchase price. The guy who won the bid was ecstatic that he had obtained the kitchen for his granddaughter. He was willing to pay that much, and I was happy to make a little profit. What that kitchen was worth to him was his decision, not mine. If he had told me a sad story about being poor and just wanting his precious little grand baby to have a happy birthday I would have given him a discount, but he arrived, well dressed in a high end car, happy as a clam to get the kitchen. I felt okay about it.

 

[chuckie]

If you are here long enough you'll soon realize that e-cigs are cheap,simple, over priced pieces of electronic junk and hopefully you'll spend your money wisely.

 

[Lt. Col. Killjoy]

The greed on Vape St. is sickening. I'm appalled by the rampant speculation in the vape exchange, the insider vaping, and hostile vapeovers. They're a bunch of bottom feeders.