Comparison of VTC4, VTC5, LG ICR18650HE2 and Samsung INR18650-25R

[Cyrus Vap]

We think alike Cyrus. I also prefer dual coils at around 0.4-0.5 ohms. I believe the chance of two 1 ohm coils degrading juice is significantly less than one 0.5 ohm coil because of the lower wattage per square inch of wire surface.

Works for me

I agree 100%, significantly less for sure. It's not a hot vape and you don't need massive air unless you prefer it, flavors don't burn, unflavored (95% of my vaping) is crisp and clean, and plumes of vapor only a competitive cloud blower wouldn't be satisfied with. Great for 'sipping' and light drag vaping too. And batteries last longer than 5 minutes lol

 

[Baditude]

Speaking of mech mods. I take some pretty mean hits sometimes. pulsing probably like 3 hits at 10 seconds each or so. Is that what this means by continuous discharge?

Or can somebody explain it to me in layman's terms?

A battery's continuous discharge rating is an industry standard, created to indicate how hard a battery can be pushed before failing. This makes it easier to compare battery models from one manufacturer to another.

Pulse ratings are dependent upon what any individual company or vendor decides upon how long a pulse rating is in their definition, and that can be all over the board -- there is no standard for pulse ratings. That's why I place no importance in that specification.

Which would be why we shouldn't rely on any pulse rating, IMHO. Any failure mechanical or electronic that fires the mod will operate in the 'continuous' mode; if your setup relies on a pulse rating, it's instantly over spec.

If your amp draw is safely in the continuous discharge range, your coil could act almost like a fuse, burn out before the battery is stressed. If you are running the battery at the edge of it's limits (pulse rating), there is little margin of safety.

 

[sir_puffs_alot]

great post man I was looking for all this data in one place. Confirms what I thought about the Samsung hitting harder in the top range of there voltage. I never go below 3.6 volts and this is where the vtc5 shines so Im glad I just picked up 2 new Samsung 25r's over the Sony's before reading this....surprised by the temp numbers on the Sony's also, mine never seem to heat up at higher amps but then again I never stress them cont.

 

[Kemosabe]

im still deciding on whether i want the 25r, HE2, or VTC5. heck, i might just get all 3. but the VTC5 seems harder to find in stock from a reputable vendor so i might just go with what i can find. or maybe i'll just keep waiting, perhaps something better will come along by the time i actually need new cells.

 

[Cyrus Vap]

25R and LG ... bro! Seriously. I get better (measured) performance from my 25Rs then my sonys, consistently. I'm sold. And I never go over 8 amps or so, so its a done deal. Never buying a sony again.

 

[xpen]

25R and LG ... bro! Seriously. I get better (measured) performance from my 25Rs then my sonys, consistently. I'm sold. And I never go over 8 amps or so, so its a done deal. Never buying a sony again.

In my experience the Samsungs seem to wear out more rapidly than the Sonys, though..
My LR20's last definitely less after a few months of daily use, while the VTC4's seem to keep up better..

 

[dr g]

25R and LG ... bro! Seriously. I get better (measured) performance from my 25Rs then my sonys, consistently. I'm sold. And I never go over 8 amps or so, so its a done deal. Never buying a sony again.

Share the measurements? No testing I've seen shows significant outperformance under 8 amps and significant underperformance at higher amps.

 

[beckdg]

......,.........

 

[Cyrus Vap]

In my experience the Samsungs seem to wear out more rapidly than the Sonys, though..
My LR20's last definitely less after a few months of daily use, while the VTC4's seem to keep up better..

I would take your word for it, I don't have enough experience with either to have an opinion on that yet

Share the measurements? No testing I've seen shows significant outperformance under 8 amps and significant underperformance at higher amps.

Probably doesn't qualify as significant outperformance, but mutlimeter and inline meter tests I've done with my dual coil set ups (all around .45-.53 ohm) on multiple mechs seem to show that the samsung 25R is consistently about .05 higher than the sony under load. Of course this isn't the most precise way to measure, but I do hit the button multiple times, try to make sure I'm hitting it the same way each time, batteries at the same voltage, etc. And of course it could just be my particular batteries. Point being I haven't personally seen a benefit so I'm just buying more samsungs at this point. I haven't as carefully compared the LG but they also make me happy.

Of course if I was pushing 20 amps or higher I would probably go sony based on the graphs above.

Then again I don't use my batteries in a mech much lower than 3.6 under load ever, so based on the first graph in the OP, it seems like the Sony benefit wouldn't have even kicked in by that point?

I am NO expert friends so don't burn me Always happy to learn about these things.

 

[iz2sick]

A battery's continuous discharge rating is an industry standard, created to indicate how hard a battery can be pushed before failing. This makes it easier to compare battery models from one manufacturer to another.

Pulse ratings are dependent upon what any individual company or vendor decides upon how long a pulse rating is in their definition, and that can be all over the board -- there is no standard for pulse ratings. That's why I place no importance in that specification.

Which would be why we shouldn't rely on any pulse rating, IMHO. Any failure mechanical or electronic that fires the mod will operate in the 'continuous' mode; if your setup relies on a pulse rating, it's instantly over spec.

If your amp draw is safely in the continuous discharge range, your coil could act almost like a fuse, burn out before the battery is stressed. If you are running the battery at the edge of it's limits (pulse rating), there is little margin of safety.

THIS.

Finally, someone who tackles the real issue with super sub-ohming... the lower your resistance, the less time you have to react to an autofire or shorting event. Now that's how you approach battery safety. Not saying crap like, "You're going to blow yourself up if you go into pulse discharges."

Fact is, none of us vapers use continuous. All of us pulse. Anyone here taking anything longer than a 10 second hit on a .2 ohm setup? I don't think so. But if you are well within the continuous rating, or even at the max rating, you will have plenty of time to react to a venting situation. Like Bad said, in these cases, it's likely the coil or insulator will burn out cutting the connection before you battery goes thermal.

But with super sub-ohming, you reduce the reaction time greatly. But it's also worth noting that several people have intentionally vented these batteries inside their mods with setups like .1ohms. One particularly example was with a .09 coil and an MNKE 18650 battery. The mod was left to autofire. It took around 2 minutes to start venting. And the result was exactly what Bad described... the atomizer failed and cut the connection. Battery was actually in amazingly good shape with just a few areas showing melting.

 

[Kemosabe]

I agree. Firing super sub ohm might not cause any issue. But with mechs, accidents happen. Faulty locking rings, switches that jostle apart causing auto firing, etc is where we run into problems. It's happened to me. And having a super sub ohm build gives the user very little time to right the wrong before undesirable conditions could occur.

I think I've seen that venting video btw. Guy was outside in the snow. Made me cringe but still good to learn from the experience what happens.

 

[beckdg]

Anyone here taking anything longer than a 10 second hit on a .2 ohm setup?

:lowers head and raises hand:

Sometimes.

 

[Froth]

:lowers head and raises hand:

Sometimes.

Count me in to that crowd as well...

 

[talon4x4]

:lowers head and raises hand:

Sometimes.

Count me in to that crowd as well...

Damn...you guys have monster lungs.

Thanks to the OP for some great info!!

 

[JRIP]

Does anyone know the C rating on the LGs, I can't find it anywhere on Google...?

The last place I look, should have been the first. The preset on Steam Engine shows it as 8.

 

[dr g]

Does anyone know the C rating on the LGs, I can't find it anywhere on Google...?

The last place I look, should have been the first. The preset on Steam Engine shows it as 8.

20A = 8C on a 2500mAh battery

 

[beckdg]

8c is a multiplication problem. It means 8 times the capacity in amp hours. To remove milli you divide by 1000.

 

[Oktyabr]

Great thread! I found it while looking for a couple new batteries since my preferred vendor is currently out of stock on the Efest 35A and I heard there may be some evidence that they are just rewrapped LG HE2s anyway.

One big concern of mine, that I didn't see mentioned here, is the "popularity-fake curve". This is what happens when a battery suddenly gets a boost in popularity and every vendor under the sun tries to stock them. Then we end up with a ton of rewrapped fakes. I know a lot of experienced vapers use a "trusted" source for their batteries these days but many new people haven't acquired that knowledge yet or, like me, start shopping around when their primary vendor is out of stock on something (or just hasn't had a chance to stock the newest battery yet). So the fake curve hypothesis is that the more popular a battery becomes and thus harder to find, the more likely you are to find fakes. Sony's are a great example. I haven't personally tried any of these myself yet because if you didn't have a trusted vendor for the genuine batteries, where on earth would you start looking? The VTC series probably has four counterfeits floating around for every real battery you might find (just a guess).

So which one is less likely to be a fake is my question... The LG HE2, purple Efest 35A, Samsung 25R or the Sony VTCs?

 

[anumber1]

The LG and the Samsung are much less likely to be faked IMHO.

They both can be sourced for $8 or so, are really easily available and in the LG's case, seems to be a commonly rewrapped battery by many distributors.

 

[Kemosabe]

The LG and the Samsung are much less likely to be faked IMHO.

They both can be sourced for $8 or so, are really easily available and in the LG's case, seems to be a commonly rewrapped battery by many distributors.

I agree. Lg and samsung would most likely be authentic if I had to venture a guess.

MNKE and Sony seem to be the biggest fakes. I've seen fake aw too.

I've never seen a fake efest, but I'm sure they're out there. Efest is however adding a layer of protection like a hologram or a verification code or something. Sorry I can't remember exactly. But new cells will start having it soon.