Competition for unethical kiosks. Opinions needed!

[OMG!]

The company I work for has stores in malls all over the US. My job is to travel to those stores and audit, so, I practically live in malls. (bad for the pocketbook )

There are a few people out there doing it right. The most recent I came across was at the Crossgates Mall in Albany, NY. The guy had a small kiosk and was selling multiple brands with a plethora of choices. I ended up buying a couple of bottles of juice that tasted awesome. When I got home and looked it up online to replenish I was disappointed to find out it was the same price as what I paid in the mall.... I was hoping it would be cheaper, but no.

Anyway, to answer your question there are people who are doing it right. There just needs to be many more of them.

By the way, in that mall there was a Smoke51 as well. They had a snazzier setup, but the sales people were sharks and they lied their asses off in their presentations. The other thing I watched them do, which turned my stomach, was open every box, pop a cart on the battery, take a few puffs, put it back in the box then stack the box on the counter. Blech!

 

[Darkwitless]

I know of 3 vendors on this site who have brick and mortar vape shops - not smoke shops who sell e-cigs.

I think part of the reason these mall store are so expensive is because of the high rent they have to pay and insurance the mall requires them to have. If you have a brick and mortar store you're going to have insurance, taxes, and rent - over and about what some website vendors have.

I will say - if you have to sell something - it should be something you beleive in! Check it out. There is no harm in getting all the information you can!

 

[Brdclark]

I think it would be great. I think it would be great to do at work also

 

[UntamedRose]

Keep in mind a lot of mall's ....have exclusive policies, that ecig vender might have a contract saying he(she) is the only one allowed to sell ecigs there.
Two...the reason even Good ecig mall venders are more expensive. You will be looking at some insane fees to have that real estate. I've hear upward of 2k a month rentals, and 20% profits cuts going to the mall.

 

[AlmightyGod]

Where are you located if I might ask?

Indianapolis

Www.indyvaporshop.com

 

[OMG!]

The malls generally take 6-8% profit on your sales. Rent on kiosks is really high in November and December, but the other months it's not too bad depending on the mall. It would cost you more to rent a building (rent, utilities, insurance, etc) and you would not have the foot traffic.

Malls really are the best place to introduce this product. I would never have tried it if I hadn't of seen it in action in the malls. I didn't buy in the mall, but they sure piqued my interest.

 

[Big Sheepherder]

Almighty, it would be helpful to disclose how long it took for your local vape-only shop to become profitable, assuming knowledge or ready ascertainment.

 

[Rosa]

This thread really got me thinking!

I envision small supplies - maybe even vending machine type dispensers - in bars.

I'm not a bar person myself, but my wife is a karaoke nut. Her one night out so far with her PV and she was overwhelmed by questions as she vaped away while smokers had to stand out in the cold.

* a lot of vending machines take credit cards these days, and like with red box you can enter your e-mail and get coupons and promos. I'm envisioning these machines stocked with tons of the $10 disposable 510's and a few full 510 kits and a ton of the disposable kr808's and a few of the full kits. There are a lot of places where you could put them and not have the liability of having minors try to buy from them (especially in Oregon) Strip clubs, over 21 night clubs, bars, liquor stores (in Oregon you can only buy hard liquor at a liquor store and no minors may enter without mom or dad), the back room at Sherry's where the folks go to play video poker... I'm sure there are more in Oregon alone - and don't get me started on Las Vegas!

I would love to have a large selection of juices, and tester bottles so people could try out the different flavors in their PV to see what they like best. It kind of sucks to have to guess and check continually when it comes to new juice.

I'd love it in a store setting to have trained mixologists, people would be able to come in weekly and sample the new mixes and custom order their own juices ("yes, I'll have 10ml of half camtel and half cherry... 24mg. Oh, can you make that 70% PG? Thanks. You know what, maybe toss in a 5ml of the chocolate with peppermint and a 5ml of the cafe latte - both at 16mg and 100%vg." "no problem ma'am, do you need any atty's or batteries today?")

Is there a larger market to be tapped? Yep. Las Vegas or LA would be a great place to start. I suspect some locations will be less lucrative.

OK, you got me started... I'm imagining those credit card vending machines covering that place. You could probably put a dozen machines in one of those big casinos and with the snazzy blue or purple LED's and some sexy marketing I bet they'd sell like hot cakes. AND you can send offers via e-mail to those who sign up so you'd end up with people logging on for more juice, batts, cartos and etc... I'd probably want to team with a reputable vendor like liberty flights or cignot, so the vending machine would say the company name on top and the e-mail coupons and offers would link them to that company.

 

[Big Sheepherder]

With respect to evaluating the profitability of your local vape-only shop, absent intimate knowledge of the business, one might not even be close in evaluating real vape-only profitability. I am not saying all, but certainly many, small business owners have the unfortunate tendency of running a substantial amount of personal expenses through the business and engaging in other bookkeeping tricks. While they can generally get away with it 90% of the time, it involves unnecessary and immoral risks (e.g., cheating on taxes, personal liability for corporate debts ala piercing the corporate/LLC veil, etc.). Moreover, there is a small minority of small business owners who do illicit side business and/or money laundering. I am by no means saying that your local (non-kiosk) vape shop does these things, but you never know until you really know. I tend to think that a real vape-only store is most likely to end up being very good advertising for online competitors who, by the very structure of their business, always can offer lower price points. Finally, bear in mind that portions of the e-cig business are very much in the air. For example, one needs to be realistic about the continuing future of non-tobacco flavored, nicotine-laden juices (other than menthol). In the absence of strong industry involvement, tactful self-regulation (e.g., eliminating cartoon advertising, bubble gum flavors, etc.), using lobbyists, targeted campaign contributions and industry retention of a good national/international law firm, the Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act may very well be amended to ban flavored nic juices for identical reasons underlying its current ban on clove, cherry, etc. cigarettes (gateway concerns, etc). However logical one may be, and however empirically incorrect the gateway concerns are, we are not on the winning emotional side when it comes to most soccer moms and the potential for flavored nic juices to appeal to their kids ... that sort of emotional appeal makes the issue attractive to some politicians. It may very well end up with lawyers attacking normally deferred to congressional findings in a court of law to salvage that aspect of the industry in the relatively near future, that is, unless the industry gets its act together and quickly. Right now, it isn't there. On the hand, there is something to be said for being early in a successful venture.

 

[Rosa]

@ sheepherder: I think the way that they get the store front to work is that it is an extension of their very profitable and successful online business. I think that even if they lose money, it's a project that is dear to their hearts and can be funded by the online sales.... but I doubt if they are losing money because, in general when an online company opens a store front it's because the online customers have asked for it enough that they have a walk in customer base before the doors even open.

 

[AlmightyGod]

All you're going to sell is burgers, fries, & shakes?

Who would sit around & stare at a box all day?

You realize I can walk faster than your motor carriage?

All questions of their times.,,

If you build it, they will come.

 

[Rosa]

All you're going to sell is burgers, fries, & shakes?

Who would sit around & stare at a box all day?

You realize I can walk faster than your motor carriage?

All questions of their times.,,

If you build it, they will come.

You forgot one:

"who'd pay $4 for a cup of coffee??"

 

[AlmightyGod]

You forgot one:

"who'd pay $4 for a cup of coffee??"

Nice save!!!

 

[AngusATAT]

"who'd pay $4 for a cup of coffee??"

Not me. My normal coffee beverage of choice runs around $5.50! I wish it only cost $4.

 

[AlmightyGod]

Not me. My normal coffee beverage of choice runs around $5.50! I wish it only cost $4.

My triple grande nonfat no whip white mocha is almost $6.

 

[Rosa]

I worked at Starbucks for 11 years, you'd be shocked at what people will pay... Once it gets up to $7 or more I look for ways to discount some stuff off their drink.

 

[AlmightyGod]

Interestingly enough...my vape shop gives me a larger discount when my bill starts getting up there, when I walk in...not on the website.

Btw..what do people cheating on their taxes have to with this discussion? Legal tax reduction methods aren't cheating.

 

[Pav]

Not me. My normal coffee beverage of choice runs around $5.50! I wish it only cost $4.

You guys don't have Tim Horton's in Georgia? Shame.

And how come we never get to see Jewel Staite in your avatar Angus? What's next, Animal Mother?

 

[Big Sheepherder]

If his heart is in it, he has done his research, the numbers seem to be there, and he is willing to issue a personal guaranty if not fully self-funded, then why not? I am just saying ...

 

[AriM]

major liability for a very slim profit margin....that is the number one reason you won't ever see full vape shops in a mall. there are plenty of local distributors that accept foot traffic. they are low key and low overhead. trust me the profit margin is slim and the liabilities are massive.....if you were to go out and get some distributor prices and then do the math on your overhead (especially the insurance) you would see why the mall kiosk guy has to charge $120....it's not just ethics, it's economy

P.S. also how will you feel when some crazed anti-xyz group pickets in front of your store?

also not trying to kill your dream....I just think there is a better option than a full store front in a mall....and I am sure there is profit to be made....sales figures for the e-cig market were $500 million last quarter