Consumer Reports Comment

[David1975]

Just because you survived all of the above, that doesn't mean that all kids did. The fact that I didn't have a car seat growing up and lived to tell about it, doesn't mean that kids didn't die needlessly and it doesn't mean that car seats aren't a good thing. All anyone is talking about is child-proof caps. If kids can be made more safe by simple means, I don't think we should decline because we somehow feel that not having our juice in whatever type of bottle we choose is an infringement of our rights. I'm sorry but when it comes to kids, I don't think there is an acceptable loss.

Here we go with the sweeping generalization again. Assigning motivation to various, large groups of people that we don't know. I'm amazed at how some of you know what so many people think.
Logical Fallacies» Sweeping Generalisation Fallacy

Well sure, but that in itself does not make it any less true.

I am not a universal negative guy and just because something is BS and agenda driven does not mean an individual caught up in the movement does not care.

I think the main question is WHY we need these thing. It is one thing for each and every one of us to do our part to protect kids, family... ect. but it is quite another thing to be told how, when and in what form this protection must be.
To say a product MUST have or not have something implies that WE, the adults, are not smart enough to keep those things out of reach from kids or that it is not a parents responsibility to teach their kids what is safe vs dangerous. I feel all too often "we" are asked/willing to give up freedoms out of a false sense of fear, or in order to help others slack on their jobs as a parents.
The only reason I survived using and playing with the items I mentioned wasn't because I was an especially smart kid, but because I had parents whom did their jobs well. I learned what was a safe way to use those tools, got spanked or scolded when I did not..... trust me, I knew the paddle well, and I knew we would meet again if I wasn't responsible (with in reason for a kid).
I also knew that if I didn't listen, I lost things.... tv, toys, and games were not a right of mine, like kids think today, but a privilege or reward for good behavior.
Safety if fine, I'm all for it. But I don't think adults need tip tow around kids to achieve it. Kids are there to learn from us, we are there to teach them, so what kind of lesson are we teaching them if we ban, restrict, or do away with anything another doesn't like or thinks is dangerous? Isn't that selfishness (It's my way or no way)?
I find if funny that those who life by the saying "it takes a village" get so offended when they are told their kids a spoiled brat, and should not be cursing at them in a line for, when telling them NO. If it truly takes a village.... am I not in it when I see something wrong going on, or bad behavior rewarded?
As for companies or special interest groups running things behind the scenes (generalizations as you put it), I don't think anyone can dispute this happens. Did you want to bail out banks and auto manufactures using your money, just so they can sell or loan your money back to you with interest? I feel government needs to take a lesson from NASCAR, and make it easier on US, the voter. The politicians should be required to have patches on their suits representing the groups, companies or interests they are funded by or supporting. So, when we vote, we see what companies are backing those would be people in office.

 

[Ed_C]

Well, let's start with the things I agree with. The patches on politicians, while I think I've head that one before is an AWESOME idea. I'd also like to see where every dollar came from and in fact I'd like to pay for all campaigns and not allow outside contributions at all. But that's another story and something that will never happen.

As for parents being reasonable for their kids, absolutely. I'm a teacher and I know what happens to kids when their parents don't do their job. I still like to think that many, if not most parents try and do a good job, although I'm having a harder and harder time convincing myself of that,

Does it take a village to raise a child? It might not if you have good parents, but if the parents are asshats, I'm thinking the child needs all the help he/she can get. I don't except that children should be left to their devices if the parents aren't doing their jobs. Children are not property and they all deserve a safe and sane childhood.

All this being said, all I'm promoting is safer packaging on juice and as many have brought up, many venders already do this.I am more than willing to give up a modicum of my rights to make things a bit safer for kids whose parents lack common sense,

PS As to the bailouts, it's my understanding the auto manufacturer bailout went pretty well. I think much of the money has been payed back, the companies are doing better and there was a massive amount of people who would have been hurt if they were allowed to fail. It's not just the auto companies themselves, but all sorts of others in the area that would have been devastated. As for the banks, I'm not so pleased with that one.

 

[AndriaD]

I have liquid nicotine in my house.
I have toilet bowl cleaner too.
And bleach.
And a loaded gun.
But shockingly, none are within the reach of my 3 year old son.
It's called being a responsible parent.
I sure as hell don't need the government to "help" me be more so.

EXACTLY!!! My son managed to grow to adulthood despite having all those cleaners in the house, along with actual cigarettes, and until he was 4, actual beer in the fridge. Somehow he managed to drink none of it, nor chew up any of my cigarettes.

You're absolute 100% correct, it's called "supervision," which has apparently gone completely out of style. I can just envision modern households, with the kids rampaging over everything, knocking the parents down and rampaging over them too, in their do-or-die efforts to drink every household cleaner under the sink, and especially that "candy flavored" liquid nicotine... which sure doesn't taste like candy if you drink it!

Everybody so eager to defend the "chiiiiiildren" from liquid nicotine has obviously missed the fact that the very next thing to happen if the child does drink it, is... he BARFS!!! End of problem.


Andria

 

[AndriaD]

I think the main question is WHY we need these thing. It is one thing for each and every one of us to do our part to protect kids, family... ect. but it is quite another thing to be told how, when and in what form this protection must be.
To say a product MUST have or not have something implies that WE, the adults, are not smart enough to keep those things out of reach from kids or that it is not a parents responsibility to teach their kids what is safe vs dangerous. I feel all too often "we" are asked/willing to give up freedoms out of a false sense of fear, or in order to help others slack on their jobs as a parents.
The only reason I survived using and playing with the items I mentioned wasn't because I was an especially smart kid, but because I had parents whom did their jobs well. I learned what was a safe way to use those tools, got spanked or scolded when I did not..... trust me, I knew the paddle well, and I knew we would meet again if I wasn't responsible (with in reason for a kid).
I also knew that if I didn't listen, I lost things.... tv, toys, and games were not a right of mine, like kids think today, but a privilege or reward for good behavior.
Safety if fine, I'm all for it. But I don't think adults need tip tow around kids to achieve it. Kids are there to learn from us, we are there to teach them, so what kind of lesson are we teaching them if we ban, restrict, or do away with anything another doesn't like or thinks is dangerous? Isn't that selfishness (It's my way or no way)?
I find if funny that those who life by the saying "it takes a village" get so offended when they are told their kids a spoiled brat, and should not be cursing at them in a line for, when telling them NO. If it truly takes a village.... am I not in it when I see something wrong going on, or bad behavior rewarded?
As for companies or special interest groups running things behind the scenes (generalizations as you put it), I don't think anyone can dispute this happens. Did you want to bail out banks and auto manufactures using your money, just so they can sell or loan your money back to you with interest? I feel government needs to take a lesson from NASCAR, and make it easier on US, the voter. The politicians should be required to have patches on their suits representing the groups, companies or interests they are funded by or supporting. So, when we vote, we see what companies are backing those would be people in office.

That's all true, I agree 100%. But now it's apparently a crime to take a switch to a child??? Somebody better go back about 50 yrs and inform my grandmother of this, because I got the switch A LOT!!! And I'm pretty sure her kids got it a lot, too, so better make that about 75 yrs! In her famous words... "I'm gonna cut the blood out of you!" No, she never ever actually got blood to run, from switching my legs, but it sure felt like it! And I remembered that feeling and didn't do whatever-it-was again!

A sad day for America, when disciplining your children is a worse crime that letting them do whatever their precious little hearts desire!


Andria

 

[Painter_]

Here is the actual article.

http://www .consumerreports.org/cro/news/2014/08/when-it-comes-to-e-cigarette-safety-you-are-still-on-your-own/index.htm

 

[Rickajho]

You may not, but sadly there are parents that do. I think regulations that required child-proof caps would be a great idea.

Except for the people with arthritis or other infirmities - who don't have children even - who find child proof packaging impossible to open. Keep your hands off my child-free lifestyle.

 

[DaveP]

Most of us have been approached by a friend or relative who saw the need to tell us about antifreeze in our ecigs or at least tell us, "You really don't know what's in that stuff, do you?". Well, yes, I do because I've made it myself. I can't prove that there's not something in the commercial juice I buy, but neither can you know for certain if the person preparing your food in a restaurant actually washed their hands before returning to work.

It's far too easy to disparage something without having to publish the details these days. I agree that ecig juice should be in packaging that pre-schoolers can't get into. Unless it takes adult strength to open it, they'll probably figure it out, though.

I really wish the FDA would conduct tests on commercially available juices. I'd pay 50 cents or a dollar more a bottle to know that the process was consistent and controlled and the recipe was safe and randomly tested by an outside lab. Many private juice vendors have flavorings that are considered proprietary and intellectual property. I want to know if there's diacetyl or a tiny amount of diethylene glycol in the mix. I'd also like to know that it's safe to inhale repeatedly over time. Many things that are FDA approved for ingestion aren't safe for inhalation. The diacetyl popcorn lung thing was that exactly.

 

[Ed_C]

Yeah the marketing to kids is pure BS.

"Researchers at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found that the number of children who have tried e-cigs has nearly tripled since 2011. By 2013, more than 250,000 middle and high school students who had never smoked conventional cigarettes had tried e-cigs, and a good percentage intended to start smoking regular cigarettes"

This is another good one. How many of those 250,000 would have gone straight to cigarettes and what exactly is a "good percentage"? Good percentage, really?

 

[Ed_C]

Except for the people with arthritis or other infirmities - who don't have children even - who find child proof packaging impossible to open. Keep your hands off my child-free lifestyle.

OK make an exception for them. How do they deal with child-proof pill bottles? I'm sure there's some sort of work-a-round.

 

[DaveP]

Yeah the marketing to kids is pure BS.

"Researchers at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found that the number of children who have tried e-cigs has nearly tripled since 2011. By 2013, more than 250,000 middle and high school students who had never smoked conventional cigarettes had tried e-cigs, and a good percentage intended to start smoking regular cigarettes"

This is another good one. How many of those 250,000 would have gone straight to cigarettes and what exactly is a "good percentage"? Good percentage, really?

A percentage of the population comes of legal age every day and the number of smokers is dwindling. Maybe the reported $4B electronic cigarette market is making a huge dent in cigarette sales. Most of us were introduced to smoking in our early teens. I was approached at Callaway Gardens in the grandstands while watching a water skiing tournament. It was a guy from a cigarette company going through the crowd and giving out gift boxes containing 2 packs of Newports and a Zippo knockoff with the blue-green paint and the Newport logo. The lighter was already filled so I could light a Newport and try it. I was 14.

I agree that children should be protected from themselves, but it's best to educate them on the dangers of certain substances early on. Making it illegal to give or sell tobacco products to a minor is a good start. The law is already there. It should be enforced aggressively.

 

[Davey59]

OK make an exception for them. How do they deal with child-proof pill bottles? I'm sure there's some sort of work-a-round.

I believe you can simply request them. My Mom does it when getting her prescriptions filled.

 

[Davey59]

Some people even think passing a law will stop somebody from doing something. Sheeesh.

 

[Ed_C]

Passing a law will stop somebody from doing something, it just won't stop everyone from doing something. I really don't get your point.

 

[Davey59]

Passing a law will stop somebody from doing something, it just won't stop everyone from doing something. I really don't get your point.

And I did not say it wouldn't stop "everyone" either. "Somebody" will still do what ever it is you try and stop, period, and proved daily. I don't get your point either.

I do not now ONE SINGLE person that did not smoke because it was illegal to do so as a teenager. I do not know one single person that started smoking {OTHER STUFF} after it was legalized, I know a few that did it before. Most laws are passed for revenue enhancement, and to make a select few feel good, like they are making a big difference..
Before "anybody" gets all literal and excited, I said "most".

 

[Ed_C]

So we shouldn't have any laws because some people break laws? OKkkkk. I did know people who didn't smoke {OTHER STUFF} because it was illegal. But in terms of kids smoking cigs or {OTHER STUFF}, it's rebellion so the fact that it's illegal makes it more appealing and more likely to happen. {OTHER STUFF} was easier to get because it was sold in a black market. For the record I'm not in favor of laws against {OTHER STUFF} for adults. I'm not sure what this has to do with child-proof caps. Do you know of any renegade pharmacies who refuse to use child-proof caps? Not all laws are created equally.

 

[David1975]

That's all true, I agree 100%. But now it's apparently a crime to take a switch to a child??? Somebody better go back about 50 yrs and inform my grandmother of this, because I got the switch A LOT!!! And I'm pretty sure her kids got it a lot, too, so better make that about 75 yrs! In her famous words... "I'm gonna cut the blood out of you!" No, she never ever actually got blood to run, from switching my legs, but it sure felt like it! And I remembered that feeling and didn't do whatever-it-was again!

A sad day for America, when disciplining your children is a worse crime that letting them do whatever their precious little hearts desire!


Andria

I look at spankings much the same way I do with adults getting disciplined in life. The spanking is not there because we hate, but as a reason not to do something, or disobey, again. Put this in terms of grown-ups.... If you speed or blow a red light, the cop "spanks" you in the pocket book... How great a world would it be if they simply pulled you over and gave you a "time out"? I could sit on the side of the road, finish my morning coffee, vape and relax.... and still have a reason to come into work late, and with a note! Hell, I'd be blowing them all the time, who cares! On the other hand..... paying a few hundred dollars when caught.... ya, that hurts, and I'm less likely to blow the next one.

 

[AndriaD]

So we shouldn't have any laws because some people break laws? OKkkkk. I did know people who didn't smoke {OTHER STUFF} because it was illegal. But in terms of kids smoking cigs or {OTHER STUFF}, it's rebellion so the fact that it's illegal makes it more appealing and more likely to happen. {OTHER STUFF} was easier to get because it was sold in a black market. For the record I'm not in favor of laws against {OTHER STUFF} for adults. I'm not sure what this has to do with child-proof caps. Do you know of any renegade pharmacies who refuse to use child-proof caps? Not all laws are created equally.

Very true. I started smoking that "other stuff" when I was 14, because it was available RIGHT IN MY HIGH SCHOOL, all I had to do was ask around to find it. By contrast, I had drunk very little alcohol before turning 18 -- the legal drinking age at that time. For a kid, the illegal stuff is MUCH easier to get than the legal, regulated stuff.

Andria

 

[AndriaD]

I look at spankings much the same way I do with adults getting disciplined in life. The spanking is not there because we hate, but as a reason not to do something, or disobey, again. Put this in terms of grown-ups.... If you speed or blow a red light, the cop "spanks" you in the pocket book... How great a world would it be if they simply pulled you over and gave you a "time out"? I could sit on the side of the road, finish my morning coffee, vape and relax.... and still have a reason to come into work late, and with a note! Hell, I'd be blowing them all the time, who cares! On the other hand..... paying a few hundred dollars when caught.... ya, that hurts, and I'm less likely to blow the next one.

Exactly right. When our son was 6 yrs old, he kept running off to play on the street behind ours -- which I didn't have a problem with, as that street's speed limit was 15 MPH, there were 3 speedbumps, and not one, not two, but THREE cops who lived on that street. But some busybody called social services because they didn't know who that child belonged to -- and they then visited me, with their officious busybody noses in my business. So we had to stop the boy from going back there. We tried groundings, 3 different times. As soon as he was off grounding, back he would go. So, we finally gave his little .... 3 swipes with a belt. He never went back there again, and for the rest of his childhood, all we had to do was say "do I have to get the belt?" and he was instant compliance.

Child abuse, my ..... Abusing him would have consisted of doing NOTHING, and letting 'social services' have a field day.

Andria

 

[EBates]

Child proof caps on juice bottles - OK do it
Prohibition of juice and mods - The FDA, ANTZ, Child Protectionists can Kiss My Skinny White .........

 

[Davey59]

Do you know of any renegade pharmacies who refuse to use child-proof caps? Not all laws are created equally.

Refuse? no, they simply give you a standard cap when you ask................ The rest is an absurd exaggeration, no laws?, come on. I think you are reading something into my replies that simply is not there. Whatever it is, we can simply disagree and leave it there.