I am writing my English term research paper, and thought I would throw this one out there. A very interesting contradiction.
Contradictions
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That's what happens when people talk about something of which they know nothing.
Actually Dr. Thomas Eissenberg joined the ECF and participated big time in this thread which started based on his research:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/e-cigarette-news/69409-cnn-com-today.html
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/e-cigarette-news/69409-cnn-com-today.html
There is little relevancy to him joining ECF and his research IMO, it almost seems as though he were trying to scare people into not using ecigs, there is no point.
Actually it was an interesting exchange with a surprise twist toward the end. You might want to find it.
"They are as effective at nicotine delivery as puffing on an unlit cigarette," said Dr. Thomas Eissenberg, at the school's Institute for Drug and Alcohol Studies.
So e cigs are a healthy option compaired to cigarettes
Rather than quit, e-cigarettes might worsen users' nicotine habits, says Michael Eriksen, ScD, director of the institute of public health at Atlanta's Georgia State University and former director of CDC's office of smoking and health.
Think his first statement devoids the second
So e cigs are a healthy option compaired to cigarettes
Rather than quit, e-cigarettes might worsen users' nicotine habits, says Michael Eriksen, ScD, director of the institute of public health at Atlanta's Georgia State University and former director of CDC's office of smoking and health.
Think his first statement devoids the second
I must be totally missing something here, I am probably in the wrong and apologize, not trying to hurt anyone's reputation, just confused.
These are 2 completely different statements coming from 2 different clinicians. There are all kinds of contradictions out there in various types of anti e-cig propaganda.
Read the thread posted up in post #3. Once Dr. Eissenburg found out that you have to use e-cigs differently than cigarettes, in how you draw on them more slowly and longer, he redid the test on himself and found that the nicotine is absorbed. The problem is that when they did the testing none of the folks useing the e-cig knew how to use them. Unfortunately his report went out before they realized this mistake. I don't know if he is planning to redo the study and put out the new data, but I sure wish he would.
Clearing up some of the common logical fallacies could fill a term paper. For example, this argument has an unstated major premise:
"Quit" what? The conclusion is only valid if the goal is to quit using nicotine. If the goal is to quit smoking, then the conclusion is a non-sequitur.
In fact, the basis of most anti-eCig argument seems to be one giant ad ignorantiam argument. "We believe eCigs are dangerous, because we don't know that they aren't".
Here's a couple of links to get started, if you don't have a working knowledge of logical fallacies:
Amazon.com: How to Win Every Argument: The Use and Abuse of Logic (9780826498946): Madsen Pirie: Books
Top 20 Logical Fallacies - The Skeptics' Guide to the Universe
"Quit" what? The conclusion is only valid if the goal is to quit using nicotine. If the goal is to quit smoking, then the conclusion is a non-sequitur.
In fact, the basis of most anti-eCig argument seems to be one giant ad ignorantiam argument. "We believe eCigs are dangerous, because we don't know that they aren't".
Here's a couple of links to get started, if you don't have a working knowledge of logical fallacies:
Amazon.com: How to Win Every Argument: The Use and Abuse of Logic (9780826498946): Madsen Pirie: Books
Top 20 Logical Fallacies - The Skeptics' Guide to the Universe
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Statistics do not lie ~ only staticians!
Unfortunately in todays society most everyone has an agenda. Those agendas drive the research and the researchers. For every study out there that gives X results, you will be able to find another study of the same thing that gives Y results. It is VERY difficult to execute a study and disallow the bias' and expectations of the people that created the study.
Commom sense and a pure search for the truth went out the window a long time ago, if, indeed, it every truly existed. Even when you are interested enough to do your own research you will find that you have prexisting expectations and desires for certain outcomes.
And even this is OK if you are honest enough to state your preferences at the beginning so that anyone else reading or listening to you can understand where you are coming from.
The real shame is that a lot of the people, particularly in politics are not honest enough to share with you their agendas.
Unfortunately in todays society most everyone has an agenda. Those agendas drive the research and the researchers. For every study out there that gives X results, you will be able to find another study of the same thing that gives Y results. It is VERY difficult to execute a study and disallow the bias' and expectations of the people that created the study.
Commom sense and a pure search for the truth went out the window a long time ago, if, indeed, it every truly existed. Even when you are interested enough to do your own research you will find that you have prexisting expectations and desires for certain outcomes.
And even this is OK if you are honest enough to state your preferences at the beginning so that anyone else reading or listening to you can understand where you are coming from.
The real shame is that a lot of the people, particularly in politics are not honest enough to share with you their agendas.
Great posts Quasi and SheerLuck, as usual! People need to be aware of 'spinning' talking heads!
SMOKING is bad. Vaping does deliver. I have tests to prove it.
All you have to do is check on a few of the 'polls' taken here on ECF and see what kind of results are recorded by users.
Ecigs "deliver" less nicotine than the now famous Nicotrol touted by Big Pharma, by a point or so, I do believe that is their goal, to make e-cigs a 'gimick'. But no one ever wants to compare them to Actually smoking (combusting) tobacco cigarettes. Wonder why????
What "they" don't understand at all is the tremendously complex needs of smokers to give up tobacco and all those chemicals! Furthermore, "they" could care less. For me, the nicotine plays an important role for a time, but is extremely easy to cut down the density of ejuice nicotine. Try cutting down smoking and see what happens in the 'normal' course of time. Successful?
An awful lot of people here have been smoke free for over a year using e-cigs, many longer. Just as many of us have experienced the first successful and most comfortable stop smoking effort ever, look at the banners we display, you'll see it's very common.
I dare one of them to say ecigs are not worthy to consider. Mine saved my life. After concentrated breathing fire and chemicals for 44 years.
So, here's an idea for research: Why do so many "people" find it possible to stop smoking with e-cigs, when "experts" can't agree with those results. Where's the disconnect? What's actually more confusing is that not one of them can tell anyone what really happens to a person who smokes a cigarette every 15 minutes of their life. I daresay, a 'vaporer' can tell you exactly what happens during their vaping day!
SMOKING is bad. Vaping does deliver. I have tests to prove it.
All you have to do is check on a few of the 'polls' taken here on ECF and see what kind of results are recorded by users.
Ecigs "deliver" less nicotine than the now famous Nicotrol touted by Big Pharma, by a point or so, I do believe that is their goal, to make e-cigs a 'gimick'. But no one ever wants to compare them to Actually smoking (combusting) tobacco cigarettes. Wonder why????
What "they" don't understand at all is the tremendously complex needs of smokers to give up tobacco and all those chemicals! Furthermore, "they" could care less. For me, the nicotine plays an important role for a time, but is extremely easy to cut down the density of ejuice nicotine. Try cutting down smoking and see what happens in the 'normal' course of time. Successful?
An awful lot of people here have been smoke free for over a year using e-cigs, many longer. Just as many of us have experienced the first successful and most comfortable stop smoking effort ever, look at the banners we display, you'll see it's very common.
I dare one of them to say ecigs are not worthy to consider. Mine saved my life. After concentrated breathing fire and chemicals for 44 years.
So, here's an idea for research: Why do so many "people" find it possible to stop smoking with e-cigs, when "experts" can't agree with those results. Where's the disconnect? What's actually more confusing is that not one of them can tell anyone what really happens to a person who smokes a cigarette every 15 minutes of their life. I daresay, a 'vaporer' can tell you exactly what happens during their vaping day!
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Don't worry about me tipping them off, I think one of those guys wrote a book on the subject!
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