Dear ECA and Njoy

[Enigma32]

To the people arguing over flavored tobacco products being banned...

You can still go to the gas station and pick up a grape dutch. You can still buy all sorts of flavored cigars and wraps. They're not banned. Just like you can buy them individually even though "loosies" were banned years ago, because again they were directed at cigarettes only.

That's the "real world" proof, you want the legal proof, here is the exerpt right from HR1256

(A) SPECIAL RULE FOR CIGARETTES- Beginning 3 months after the date of enactment of the Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act, a cigarette or any of its component parts (including the tobacco, filter, or paper) shall not contain, as a constituent (including a smoke constituent) or additive, an artificial or natural flavor (other than tobacco or menthol) or an herb or spice, including strawberry, grape, orange, clove, cinnamon, pineapple, vanilla, coconut, licorice, cocoa, chocolate, cherry, or coffee, that is a characterizing flavor of the tobacco product or tobacco smoke.

 

[embryo]

I can see strawberry, mango, kiwi and cherry as "flavors" and MB, Kent ,Hilton, Camel, Menthol as "tobacco". But what about products like the RY series(RY1,RY2 etc...) 555, Riskee, taboo, etc... . These are all slightly tweeked tobacco varieties(i.e. RY4 has vanilla and caramel overtones, but it is not either directly caramel or vanilla flavored, technically). Same thing with 555.

Where do you draw the line as to what is considered "flavored" as opposed to just different varities of tobacco with inherent flavor overtones?

No doubt!
All cigarette brands have a different taste/flavor. It's not just the varietal differences in the tobaccos used, but the curing process, the fertilizers used, and even the dirt itself. The curing process ofr most tobaccos includes the misting of the leaves with a concoction of beaucoup chemicals, including food-grade flavor additives. The bottom line is that "tobacco" is available in MANY flavors, otherwise, there would probably only be one brand on the shelves...available in light and regular...

The acceptable degree of flavoring is the point that could be argued...even by the tobacco companies.

It seems that menthol flavoring is an acceptable flavor. Why exactly is it so special? Do they believe that kids loathe Vicks vapo rub and toothpaste/mouthwash so much that they won't smoke minty/menthol flavored cigs?

And of course, WHY are pipe tobaccos exempt from the flavoring bans? Presumably because they don't feel kids will smoke from a pipe(ludicrous)...or is it that so many of the justices smoke a pipe and couldn't bear to give up their flavors, perhaps?

 

[LaceyUnderall]

We don't have to concede on producing, selling and marketing flavors. However, there is a responsible way to do this.

For instance: A bottle of liquid could say - Dog Poop.

What kid would pick up a bottle of "Dog Poop" and think - "Oh that's tasty". However, it could taste like Chocolate and there is no reason the bottle can't say one thing and the committed, adult smoker who purchases the product is the only one who knows what it actually tastes like.

This was the thinking behind the ECA's efforts to thwart the "flavor" issue. Words like "cotton candy", "bubblegum", and unfortunately, thank you to the pharmaceutical industry, "cherry", "vanilla", "mint" and so on have been attributed to things that children would associate as tasting good.

It isn't that the ECA doesn't support flavors. If it weren't for all of the wonderful flavors, many eSmokers would be left to the taste of good ole rolled tobacco.

Since a year ago at the Chicago meeting, this was what was discussed... Simply changing the names of flavors so that they aren't as identifiable to children once they make it into the home. This doesn't mean that we have to stop selling or producing flavor all together. Because that's just plain ridiculous.

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

Makes good sense.......and appeals to my devious side (stickin' it to the man and all that), "Dog Poop" it is. Name games can be fun, too .

 

[TropicalBob]

Neat, Lacey. All kinds of evasive games are playing out now in tobacco shops. "Pipe tobacco" that is shreaded strangely, exactly right for RYO ciggies, so it isn't taxed at prohibitive levels. Little cigars with brown wrappers that come in any flavor you want -- and don't get taxed as cigarettes.

It is sometimes a name game.

I'll have some Red Rubbish, please (that's strawberry flavor).

 

[jigtg]

Or by their Latin names:
Cherry -> Prunus
Mint -> Mentha
Vanilla -> ******

 

[Xeno]

Rules for Radicals.

Its the play book the oposition (ASH and all the anti-smoking lobby) is using. If you don't understand their willingness to "fight regardless of the truth" and "lay aside the false notion that the ends do not justify the means" then you cannot and will not win this fight!

A PV is no more a drug delivery device than a coffe pot is. Almost any substance could be put in the chamber and vaporized.

Nicotine is not tobacco.
PG Vapor is not smoke.
Vaping is not smoking.

The FDA has no authority here. It appears NJOY and the ECA, however, are willing to concede it to them. That should give us all pause.

Yearning to be free,

RJ

I agree with this 100%...

 

[TropicalBob]

Excuse me, but the FDA regulates drugs, which is what they've said our nicotine liquids are. The FDA's action on importation and sales was because our e-cigs are "drug delivery devices" and our liquids are "unapproved new drugs."

The FDA has authority over nicotine products. It approved all the ones you can presently buy at a drug store. Until the recent "family smoking prevention" act, it did not have authority over tobacco products, so we had hope. It now has that authority, too.

Freedom is not the issue. Buying and using unapproved snake oil is the issue, an issue that was decided many, many decades ago. You don't have freedom of choice for drug products unless the FDA approves the product.

The covered wagon salesmen of cure-all elixirs have been replaced by Web sites called up worldwide from China. And the FDA still has its job to do.

Let's argue with the FDA's categorization of e-cigs. But use reason, not cries of "freedom".

 

[Territoo]

Makes good sense.......and appeals to my devious side (stickin' it to the man and all that), "Dog Poop" it is. Name games can be fun, too .

Would a new vaperer, even if of legal age, actually buy "Dog Poop" flavor??? What if I, long past age 18, want to vape "Cotton Candy"? How would you rename that so that I know what it is but the kiddies don't?

 

[johnny bobcat]

im sure that on the website which they are sold there would have to be a description of what the juice actually tasted like, even though it's labeled as something nasty

 

[68stang]

naming flavors by some random gross sounding name is insane itself. Beer and liquor come in flavors .....the FDA needs to get off that and leave our flavors alone!

 

[Silence]

Looks like Njoy has added their flavors back to their sales site!!!

 

[Cali]

The easiest way to avoid any of that is suppliers to sell the unflavored nicotine liquids and all who vape jsut flavor yourself. Granted some of the suppliers would be hurt and it would be a major letdown and turn off for those who can't, won't or simply just don't WANT to DiY but that's the simplest solution should that problem ever truly arise. Then we all jsut order our own lorann flavors and post recipes

 

[southernchick]

The easiest way to avoid any of that is suppliers to sell the unflavored nicotine liquids and all who vape jsut flavor yourself. Granted some of the suppliers would be hurt and it would be a major letdown and turn off for those who can't, won't or simply just don't WANT to DiY but that's the simplest solution should that problem ever truly arise. Then we all jsut order our own lorann flavors and post recipes

I agree, especially if vendors like DIYflavorshack, Johnson Creek & Mrs. T's are willing to share their recipes

 

[Cielo]

Many vendors already offer 0 nic versions of their flavors. They could simply "double" the flavor and sell it ready to be mixed with unflavored nic. It would be no different than me purchasing Lorann flavorings at my local cake shop.

Where there's a will, there's a way.