Depression and smokers....?

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maureengill

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I was wondering....I know that I have been dealing with depression for most of my life and was wondering if that could be related to why we are smokers...it seems like I'm not the only one around here who is coping with depression. I'd love to hear what everyone else thinks about this topic...

Maureen
 

VapingRulz

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I was wondering....I know that I have been dealing with depression for most of my life and was wondering if that could be related to why we are smokers...it seems like I'm not the only one around here who is coping with depression. I'd love to hear what everyone else thinks about this topic...

Maureen

I think there's something to it; self-medicating. I think it's related to the MAOI (?) - I'm not sure exactly what this is but there's a whole thread about it here somewhere.
 

olderthandirt

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Hi maureen
There certainly is an association between depression and smoking.

As you yourself commented, a huge number of threads/posts around here speaking of this. If you haven't already, spend some time in the Health and Medical Issues forum. This thread may be of interest to you:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/nicotine/30361-mao-inhibitors.html

We humans have a propensity to self medicate. I speak from personal experience! :) My own experience in stopping smoking using PV's was reasonably easy, unspectacular really once I started using 36mg only. A huge number of people accomplish the same with much lower nic levels.

At that I couldn't completely stop smoking until I started using snus. Whole tobacco contains alkaloids other than nicotine that act as MAOI's, something those of us dealing with depression use/need/become addicted to.

This blog from DVap touches on some related points nicely:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...g-i-think-i-know-about-vaping-vs-analogs.html

Yep, there's a relationship all right!
 

316lvm

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I was wondering....I know that I have been dealing with depression for most of my life and was wondering if that could be related to why we are smokers...it seems like I'm not the only one around here who is coping with depression. I'd love to hear what everyone else thinks about this topic...

Maureen

Hi Maureen -

Posted this on my blog but in reference to insomnia. I've been doing a lot of reading on nicotine and mental illness. I have Bi-Polar disorder; chronic, severe with rapid cycling.

There is a big correlation between nicotine and mood disorders. 70% of bi-polars are smokers, 60% major depression, 90% schizophrenics, 56% panic disorders, 60% PTSD. (From: YOUR PREMIERE CONSUMER BIPOLAR D

Smoking seems to be in the form of self-medication - it acts as either a stimulant or depressant. Nicotine seems to correct a chemical imbalance in the brain.

Smokers also have 40% less MAO enzymes than non-smokers. This means that the smokers have a higher dopamine level. (From: Research spurs new views of nicotine, ACP Observer Feb 97

Other sources of information:
How Organic Nicotine can Help: Depression – How Organic Nicotine Can Help

Nicotine and Depression:
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/708353

What has me concerned is the interaction between nicotine and medications; specifically psychotropics and blood pressure meds. Nicotine can have an adverse effect on psychtropics in that it flushes the meds out of the body leading to relapses. As far a blood pressure, it has shown that it lowers blood pressure. Nicotine + blood pressure meds may lead to dangerously low blood pressure.

I know this may be TMI and a bit off topic, but it should be of concern on how liquid nicotine interacts with medications and moods. I will be following up these concerns when I see my doc next month.
 

olderthandirt

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...I know this may be TMI and a bit off topic, but it should be of concern on how liquid nicotine interacts with medications and moods. I will be following up these concerns when I see my doc next month.

Speaking for myself only, doesn't appear off topic at all. Good stuff there.
 

Karl the heretiK

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I was wondering....I know that I have been dealing with depression for most of my life and was wondering if that could be related to why we are smokers...it seems like I'm not the only one around here who is coping with depression. I'd love to hear what everyone else thinks about this topic...

Maureen

As a longtime "battler of the blues," I have to say that I always thought there was an element of self-destruction inherent in my own cigarette abuse... as Kurt Vonnegut once said, "Smoking is an honorable form of suicide."

For those of us who battle long-term, chronic depression, it makes sense to engage in bad habits that, although they might not kill us outright, will definitely shorten our lifespan. I don't buy into the chemical aspects of smoking as much as some do because there are many other things one can do to get a buzz... the buzz from nicotine doesn't come close to the buzz you get with, say, alcohol... so why do a drug that doesn't make you any happier or make you forget bad things in your life?

Other than that, I have to warn you and others about depression and PPI's (Proton Pump Inhibitors). Many folks don't know this (including most of the 300 pharmacists I work with), but reflux meds like Prilosec and Nexium can cause depression... I know it sounds crazy, but I have first-hand experience with Prilosec (omeprazole)... and one of my pharma-tech buddies looked it up on the drug database and... what do you know? Under the list of "call your doctor immediately if you experience these symptoms"... depression is the last one listed. And I honestly think these drugs cause more depression than we realize... so, just an FYI for all you depression sufferers out there...

Layyyter...
 

olderthandirt

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As a longtime "battler of the blues," I have to say that I always thought there was an element of self-destruction inherent in my own cigarette abuse... as Kurt Vonnegut once said, "Smoking is an honorable form of suicide."
...

And then there's that aspect as well, self-destruction...
 

martha1014

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Quoted from American Medical Association--
The studies implied that smokers used nicotine to treat symptoms of depression, for "mood enhancement," for "anxiety relief," to "cope with stress" and to "gain self-control." The marketing study also suggested that smoking "helps perk you up" and "helps you think out problems."

Why do persons with mental disorders smoke more than others? This study does not really explain. We do know that nicotine is a stimulant, and that it seems to ease the symptoms of some severe disorders such as schizophrenia. 65-90% of persons with schizophrenia are nicotine dependent, probably partly because nicotine relieves some of their symptoms and improves cognitive functioning. Tobacco marketers [FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica]have played on these statistics, but they probably didn't create them. [/FONT]
41% of mentall ill persons smoke as compared to 22.5% of normal people.

A large percent of the mentally ill also abuse alcohol, prescription drug and illegal drugs.
 

kcomfort001

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I was wondering....I know that I have been dealing with depression for most of my life and was wondering if that could be related to why we are smokers...it seems like I'm not the only one around here who is coping with depression. I'd love to hear what everyone else thinks about this topic...

Maureen

Hey maureen I think it has alot to do with it, I have legitimate depression even on meds I've tried a few I feel absolutely worn out

Smoking / Coffee are two huge things I do/did I always smoke more and drink alot more coffee when I'm off my meds and smoking seems to wake me up a bit even if its 5-10 minutes

I think it has alot to do with it and I think there have been studies showing such and would also explain why some anti-depressents Wellbutrin there are some others that actually help people quit smoking as well but I know that wellbutrin is used to treat depression unsure about some of the others.
 
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Dram202

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Nicotine is a stimulant afterall. Sigmund Freud used to prescribe ....... to patients suffering depression.

Interestingly, anxiety also seems to be the counterpart of depression. As it is known as comorbid (occuring together). Often times we see that anxiety creates depression...for various reasons. We know however, that if a person suffers from anxiety it's probably best for them not to consume stimulants like nicotine, caffeine, illicit drugs etc... Alas we usually treat the depression with stimulants through our self-medicating rituals. It's all quite cyclical unfortunately.

And then our physiology takes it to even a further crazy step, by taking traditonal depressants and turning them into euphoric highs! Such as the use of alchohol, and pain medication.

Bottom line: our brains are definitely not perfect. Attempting to strike a balance in all aspects of our lives is probably the best thing we can do. Easier said than done eh?

Smoking analogs for me seems to "calm" me, but infact, I know this is a false feeling. False or not it's real to the person experiencing it of course. If I were to quit nicotine "cold turkey" I would be very afraid of the physiological, and psychological ramifications. Let's just say I would be very unpleasant to be around.

They have prescribed anti-depressants for years to aid in smoking cessation Wellbutrin for example.
 

316lvm

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There has been some really good input regarding nicotine and depression. I'm not an expert, but as a retired mental health social worker (20+ years) - working both in the adolescent and adult system as well as supervising the second biggest clinic in Phoenix, AZ, from a clinical standpoint, I know a little bit about mental health issues.

A large percent of the mentally ill also abuse alcohol, prescription drug and illegal drugs.

This is very true. However, a mentally ill person does not set out to become an addict or to abuse substances. It's a process that develops over time.

For instance, when working in the child/adolescent field, there were times during an intake of a severe ADHD child, when we knew that the child could not get their meds filled ASAP, we often informed the parents to have their child drink coffee or especially Mountain Dew. The stimulant counteracts the hyperness. Will this child grow up to drink coffee and Mtn. Dew? More than likely.

Personally, I never started out to abuse substances. It started with caffeine and progressed. And let's face it, as my behavior and thinking became erratic, what normal person would want to be around me?

Smoking / Coffee are two huge things I do/did I always smoke more and drink alot more coffee when I'm off my meds and smoking seems to wake me up a bit even if its 5-10 minutes
Ditto - but I've never been off my meds.

I think it has alot to do with it and I think there have been studies showing such and would also explain why some anti-depressents Wellbutrin there are some others that actually help people quit smoking as well but I know that wellbutrin is used to treat depression unsure about some of the others.
There are a lot of medications to treat depression and different groups. For expample, there are the SSRI's, MAOI's, Calcium Channel blockers, and the new hybrid's of psychotropics. Wellbutrin is also, as you stated, prescribed to treat nicotine addiction. However, it can be contraindicated depending on what medications a person is on.
Interestingly, anxiety also seems to be the counterpart of depression. As it is known as comorbid (occuring together). Often times we see that anxiety creates depression...for various reasons.
Not necessarily. There are plenty of people who don't suffer from mental health issues that can have anxiety or panic attacks. Some maybe due to stressors.
Also, there are several types of depression. Seasonal Affective D/O, Cycothymia, manic depressive, etc.
Studies have also shown that depression can have it's root in childhood trauma. Brain scans of abused infants and children are markedly different than those who have not experienced trauma. The brain itself is permanently changed.
We know however, that if a person suffers from anxiety it's probably best for them not to consume stimulants like nicotine, caffeine, illicit drugs etc... Alas we usually treat the depression with stimulants through our self-medicating rituals. It's all quite cyclical unfortunately.

True - but if you have lived with depression all your life and don't know any different how would you even know that you are self-medicating?

And then our physiology takes it to even a further crazy step, by taking traditonal depressants and turning them into euphoric highs! Such as the use of alchohol, and pain medication.
Not true. Medications affect the CHEMICAL part of the brain. And I can guarantee you that I don't get euphoric highs from the use of traditional depressants, alchohol or pain medication. If anything, it dulls the senses so that you don't feel the pain. A person is looking to numb themselves out. There is no enjoyment out of it.

Bottom line: our brains are definitely not perfect. Attempting to strike a balance in all aspects of our lives is probably the best thing we can do. Easier said than done eh?
I'll second that. It takes 5-10 years before a person is diagnosed with depression. The usual diagnosis is substance abuse, PTSD. When a person is finally diagnosed with depression, then starts the medication trial and error. It takes another 2 years to finally get the right combination of medication to treat the illness. That's if everything falls into place.
Again, me as an example. My depression hit when I was 4 years old. My first suicide attempt was at that age. Yes, 4 y/o. It wasn't until I was 29 that I was diagnosed with depression and that was secondary to PTSD. Despite going to counselors and all the other crap I was described as "moody".
Went on Prozac. :D LIfe was good. Well, Prozac will cause psychosis in an undiagnosed Bi-Polar person. At 31, a trip to the psych unit. From 31 to 38, was a long list of medications. Trial and error. I'm a rapid cycler, ie. many mood shifts during a 24 hour period, which cycles out every 3 months. Plus, I metabolize meds fast. (Which is the same problem with kids - they are constantly needing med adjustments because they cycle through medications.) Every 2 years, complete med change.

Which brings us back to self medicating with nicotine, or substances or with prescription. Any of the 3 will kill you. Any of the 3 alters the chemistry in the brain.

For me, I'm praying that the e-cigs gets me off analogs and eventually nicotine. I figure that'll add 10 years to my life. That's 10 precious years bonus for me. Because the side effects of the medications I take, it's slowly killing my liver, it's killing my heart, it's killing my kidneys, my pancreas, atrophy of the brain. I have 16 years left - 16 years to spend with my husband, 16 years and my son will be 28, 16 years and I might have grandbabies, 16 years to age 65.
Now I'll have that drink and vape till I pass out.:)
 
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