$200 dollars is something when you work hard for it. One would need a
lot of $200's to pay for that ISO certified lab. Which by the way they are
using to make a product that is as easy and safe to make as Kool Aid.
Regards
Mike
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lot of $200's to pay for that ISO certified lab. Which by the way they are
using to make a product that is as easy and safe to make as Kool Aid.
Regards
Mike
Wouldn't the same thing be true for personal testing? If you only have one flavor that you absolutely love and can't live without, and it only costs $200 for 'peace of mind' then please explain to me why you wouldn't do the test yourself?
But if you are on tight budget, and love about 50 flavors, then I can very much see why you wouldn't want to spend the $10,000 to do your own testing, even while it WOULD be in your best interest.
I don't think the vendor selling 3 flavors, unless they are considered best in the business, is making lots of money.
Even then, if testing requires all batches and variations to be paid for, then it isn't just $200. Already covered the PG-VG thing earlier, but say a vendor did test 6 months ago and it legitimately showed they are at ND levels for DA/AP. And they announce a new batch on same recipe and have only made minute adjustment. Then some scientific type person says that new ingredient has been linked to increased levels of DA. The vendor shows credible scientific study that says no it has not. Who's right? I'm guessing the concerned DA consumer will say test it again. And again if something else (regardless of how tiny that something else is) changes.
So the vendor that sells no variation in their liquid, never changes their recipe and offers 5 flavors is making lots of money and could afford the $1000 cost. And it is totally righteous for them to think they need to test for something that hasn't been correlated with harm to vapers. But also totally righteous for highly concerned vapers to never ever do their own testing and put all their faith in a vendor.
I'm sure somewhere that makes sense, in crazy-ville.
Then how do "you" make inhaling artificial flavoring less harmful ? switch out one or two compounds for another and call it harm reduction ?
Would you not agree cutting out over 3000 compounds completely would be considered harm reduction ?
I vape unflavored (primarily). I do whatever I can towards harm reduction. That was why I got into vaping in the first place. Maybe other people did it for the clouds, or for the fun flavors, or whatever your prerogative is. Not me. Any potential risk, in regards to vaping, that can be avoided, I will take.
Do I still drink alcohol? Yes. Do I still breathe city air? Yes. Do I still drink tap water? Yes. Does any of that justify vaping diketones? Nope. We know the risks of those things. Diketones? Nope.
I'm done here, this thread is going in circles. If you care to be incensed by more of my "ANTZ" propaganda you can check the other diketones threads, virtually all of which I've voiced my opinion in. Numerous times. And so have most of you.
Do I still drink alcohol? Yes. Do I still breathe city air? Yes. Do I still drink tap water? Yes. Does any of that justify vaping diketones? Nope. We know the risks of those things. Diketones? Nope.
I'm done here, this thread is going in circles. If you care to be incensed by more of my "ANTZ" propaganda you can check the other diketones threads, virtually all of which I've voiced my opinion in. Numerous times. And so have most of you.
depends on where you go. you can test for D/AP for $60 here Nicotine Testing and Analysis. Terponix - Fast, accurate, and cost effective nicotine analysis for the e-Cigarette industry.
YES! Diacetyl and AP don't NEED to be in liquid. it is an option.
it is a part of SOME flavorings, but those flavorings with D/AP don't NEED to be used.
sometimes is can be produced when mixing different flavorings, but the chances of you getting detectable levels of D/AP while using nothing but D/AP free flavorings....is very rare.
yes, vaping unflavored would avoid D/AP. if you like the taste of unflavored, then go for it. unflavored is SUPER CHEAP too.[/quote][/QUOTE]
So, you've decided that a certain amount of alcohol is okay even though it causes death by liver disease.
So your not to worried about the amount of formaldehyde coming from your cotton wick / metal coil ?
Yes. At least I know the risks.
No, because I don't burn my juice/wick.
it's the principle of the thing. i shouldn't have to.
should i have to test the meat i buy for mad cow? should i have to test my milk to make sure it is pasteurized?
wrong....
cyclops vapor only started with 2 flavors (they have 9 now) and they are one of the biggest most well know brands. didn't start out big though.
5 pawns is also super big (not endorsing though) and only started with 5 flavors
Suicide Bunny only started with 5 flavors
Cuttwood only started with 1 flavor
Cosmic fog only started with 5
i can go on and on.
point is, MANY of the most popular eliquid brands don't have more than 10 flavors or so, and only started off with 5 or less flavors.
just because a company is only selling 3 flavors doesn't mean it's not making money.
especially when most places have a 1000%+ mark up on the juice they sell. with a 1000% mark up, it's easy to make money.
it doesn't. its a one time test, unless they change the recipe. one test for every flavor they carry, and boom.
crazy-ville is where people have to do all their own testing for everything that they buy.
"oh, this car i just bought says it's safe, but the manufacturer doesn't want to pay for crash tests......guess i gotta go crash it myself and do my own testing" this seems to be what you think
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Unlike diketones the risks of consuming alcohol is well known, should alcohol be removed from all products sold?
No. Because the risks are well-known, I can make an informed decision as to whether or not I want to put the substances in my body.
Diketones? The risks aren't well-known, or really, known at all. Nobody can make an informed decision.
it's the principle of the thing. i shouldn't have to.
should i have to test the meat i buy for mad cow? should i have to test my milk to make sure it is pasteurized?
wrong....
cyclops vapor only started with 2 flavors (they have 9 now) and they are one of the biggest most well know brands.
5 pawns is also super big (not endorsing though) and only started with 5 flavors
Suicide Bunny only started with 5 flavors
Cuttwood only started with 1 flavor
Cosmic fog only started with 5
i can go on and on.
point is MANY of the most popular eliquid brands don't have more than 10 flavors or so.
it doesn't. its a one time test, unless they change the recipe. one test for every flavor they carry, and boom.
crazy-ville is where people have to do all their own testing for everything that they buy.
"oh, this car i just bought says it's safe, but the manufacturer doesn't want to pay for crash tests......guess i gotta go crash it myself and do my own testing" this seems to be what you think
So if the juice manufactures would have just put a label on them stating not intended for inhalation would that be accurate ? because all the flavor manufacturing company's don't claim to be intended for inhalation but rather ingested for food or beverage consumption and FDA approved, so why the big rant to go after the mixologist to test ?
When your at the steakhouse do you ask the chef for the United States Department of Agriculture, Food Safety and Inspection results ?
That's why they made Chantix for people like yourself to take all the risk out, FDA approved also ..............
This is going better than expected. So you think people should go back to smoking because the risks are well known.
It's a mater of principal to me. Why should vapers be paying for unnecessaryit's the principle of the thing. i shouldn't have to.
should i have to test the meat i buy for mad cow? should i have to test my milk to make sure it is pasteurized?
wrong....
cyclops vapor only started with 2 flavors (they have 9 now) and they are one of the biggest most well know brands. didn't start out big though.
5 pawns is also super big (not endorsing though) and only started with 5 flavors
Suicide Bunny only started with 5 flavors
Cuttwood only started with 1 flavor
Cosmic fog only started with 5
N.
i can go on and on.
point is, MANY of the most popular eliquid brands don't have more than 10 flavors or so, and only started off with 5 or less flavors.
just because a company is only selling 3 flavors doesn't mean it's not making money.
especially when most places have a 1000%+ mark up on the juice they sell. with a 1000% mark up, it's easy to make money.
it doesn't. its a one time test, unless they change the recipe. one test for every flavor they carry, and boom.
crazy-ville is where people have to do all their own testing for everything that they buy.
"oh, this car i just bought says it's safe, but the manufacturer doesn't want to pay for crash tests......guess i gotta go crash it myself and do my own testing" this seems to be what you think
testing which will be passed along in the cost? Who died and left you and
a few others in charge of the testing protocols? I have done a fare bit of
research on e-cigarettes. How there made and the materials and ingredients
used to make them. As of yet I have found no evidence that there is any
thing causing any harm if not abused. There is absolutely nothing about
vaping that merits the scrutiny and villany heaped on it by the FDA and
some vapors.
Regards
Mike
This is going better than expected. So you think people should go back to smoking because the risks are well known.
Wow, you probably didn't get very far in debate club. You've been spouting logical fallacies this whole thread, and you've even contradicted yourself quite a few times.
I started vaping for harm reduction. I didn't vape because I wanted to blow clouds, or taste fancy flavors, or whatever you started vaping for. I know cigarettes are bad for me. I'm confident unflavored e-juice is safer than flavored e-juice. We all accept certain risks. I don't accept the risk of diketones, primarily because it may be far worse and far more apparent than the long-term effects of smoking cigarettes. Maybe not. It's all speculation. You're banking on diketones being fine, you're a risk-taker, probably a cloud-chaser, I get it. I'd rather err on the side of caution.
I should've stopped responding a page or so ago, but as a final note, everyone who responded to this thread should read this Wikipedia article and consider these very easy-to-avoid mistakes/comparisons/conclusions when trying to formulate a cohesive argument:
List of fallacies - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
very easy-to-avoid mistakes/comparisons/conclusions when trying to formulate a cohesive argument ?
You are a truly gifted vacillator, debate club ? ................
So what is your argument? Hm? Diketones are A-okay? Keep 'em in e-juice?
All the power to you. Keep chucking your diketone clouds. Keep it out of my face. And learn to write without sounding like a dunce. Seeya bud.
And don't forget to call / email your inebriated state senator / white house and help
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