Diacetyl question

[Nick O'Teen]

Nick, could you please keep us updated as to when these last few flavors are diacetyl free?

Also, am I safe in assuming that your flavorings are also 2,3-Pentanedione (acetylpropionyl) free??

I have to confess, I hadn't come across any issues regarding this compound, and an hour's googling only turns up one pre-publication citation that "suggests" it may cause similar epithelial damage in rats. With any kind of formal publication apparently still pending nearly a year later (I can find no followup on the Society of Toxicology website, or any abstract published in The Toxicologist journal to date,) I assume it is not a very robust conclusion, and that we'll likely have to await further research.

Having said that, it's clearly something to watch - I have no doubt there are other compounds in flavourings that are more or less harmful by inhalation, and this may be one of them, so I will add it to my "undesirables" watch list along with eugenol and a couple of herb oils. I will also enquire with my suppliers as to the extent of any acetyl propionol usage in the flavour bases I source. I would guess this will be a much less significant problem than it might be in the US, since the European food regulators seem content to leave diacetyl in the food chain, and there has not been any significant effort to find substitutes - so I would think it likely that there is a lot less AP used in Europe. It's more expensive than diacetyl, so the only benefit it seems to offer is that it isn't diacetyl - Fenaroli's Handbook (6th Edition) indicates that worldwide AP usage is only ~1% of diacetyl consumption (1550lb/yr v. 153,500lb/yr.) The custom diacetyl-free formulations we specify are the original formulation minus the diacetyl, with no substitute ingredients added to replace the lost diacetyl flavour.

But it is very true that there hasn't been any significant study of the majority of even the most commonly used flavourings for their effects by inhalation. If you want complete safety, you probably shouldn't be vaping anything (nor drinking undistilled water, nor breathing un-filtered air, nor eating... anything really )

IYI, here's the Fenaroli data for diacetyl and acetyl propionyl:

Acetyl propionyl
Diacetyl 1
Diacetyl 2

 

[GiMante]

Thank you so much for your informative answer to my question and your efforts to do so! I appreciate it

BTW, I hope your feeling better!

 

[shanagan]

I have to confess, I hadn't come across any issues regarding this compound, and an hour's googling only turns up one pre-publication citation that "suggests" it may cause similar epithelial damage in rats. With any kind of formal publication apparently still pending nearly a year later (I can find no followup on the Society of Toxicology website, or any abstract published in The Toxicologist journal to date,) I assume it is not a very robust conclusion, and that we'll likely have to await further research.

Having said that, it's clearly something to watch - I have no doubt there are other compounds in flavourings that are more or less harmful by inhalation, and this may be one of them, so I will add it to my "undesirables" watch list along with eugenol and a couple of herb oils. I will also enquire with my suppliers as to the extent of any acetyl propionol usage in the flavour bases I source. I would guess this will be a much less significant problem than it might be in the US, since the European food regulators seem content to leave diacetyl in the food chain, and there has not been any significant effort to find substitutes - so I would think it likely that there is a lot less AP used in Europe. It's more expensive than diacetyl, so the only benefit it seems to offer is that it isn't diacetyl - Fenaroli's Handbook (6th Edition) indicates that worldwide AP usage is only ~1% of diacetyl consumption (1550lb/yr v. 153,500lb/yr.) The custom diacetyl-free formulations we specify are the original formulation minus the diacetyl, with no substitute ingredients added to replace the lost diacetyl flavour.

But it is very true that there hasn't been any significant study of the majority of even the most commonly used flavourings for their effects by inhalation. If you want complete safety, you probably shouldn't be vaping anything (nor drinking undistilled water, nor breathing un-filtered air, nor eating... anything really )

IYI, here's the Fenaroli data for diacetyl and acetyl propionyl:

Acetyl propionyl
Diacetyl 1
Diacetyl 2

Nick, I came across this on 2,3pent, published in March of 2010 on the cdc website: http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/flavorings/pdfs/Hubbs-FlavoringsAbstract-Toxicologist2010.pdf

Doesn't look good. In fact, looks identical to diacetyl, if I'm reading correctly.

 

[Nick O'Teen]

Ah, well done - thanks for finding that! Definitely doesn't look good, though as I say, likelier to be a problem with US-sourced flavourings, where there's a strong drive to eliminate diacetyl, than over here, since the EU seems content so far to leave it in the food chain.

 

[shanagan]

Ah, well done - thanks for finding that! Definitely doesn't look good, though as I say, likelier to be a problem with US-sourced flavourings, where there's a strong drive to eliminate diacetyl, than over here, since the EU seems content so far to leave it in the food chain.

I've stumbled across more scientific studies in the last week than I have ever even had to consider in a lifetime!