Difficulty with FA Walnut

[Vappa]

This weekend i tried to mix some ejuice with Flavour Art Walnut.
Normally their flavors mix well at around 4-6%. But with the Walnut i cannot get a satisfactory result.
I always use PG/VG/nic at 70/30/11. I started out with 3% of flavor but i couldn't taste it. Then i increased the flavor percentage with 1% increments, until i was at 17% and still having no taste of the walnut.
When i stick a toothpick in the juice and wipe it on my tongue i can taste it quite strong (i do this sometimes, just to get a hint on the strength). But compared to the Hazelnut of FA it is much weaker.

Is this particular flavor one that is not suited for making ejuice?

If somebody uses this Walnut flavor of FA, at what percentage are you mixing it?
If somebody else knows about a good Walnut flavor i'm interested to know where i can buy it.

 

[echofinder]

I have a TFA black walnut flavor which comes through nicely; problem is, the flavoring destroys cartos like that's its job.

 

[Vappa]

At what percentage do you mix this black walnut, echofinder? Or is it a ready-made juice?

 

[echofinder]

It is a flavoring; I am sure someone sells a pre-made juice but I have not come across it... I mixed it 4ml in a 30, so about 13%. It had a good nutty, sweet flavor... kinda reminded me of brown sugar.

 

[echofinder]

This. Also, my bad, it is lorannes not TFA.

 

[Vappa]

Just tried to order Lor Ann black walnut in a local store. Too bad, they're sold out...

I'm mailing with somebody at Flavour Art Italy about this issue i'm having with their Walnut. So far no satisfying results. I really hope this flavor will work out somehow. I love walnuts and i'm really curious about vaping this one.

 

[Vappa]

Talked to Paola (FA) yesterday. He suggested to let it sit for a few days as the juice is freshly made.
But it is already in my cabinet for three weeks now and still i do not taste anything Walnuttish.

I think i will leave it in the cabinet for three more weeks with the lid off, hoping this would do any good to the flavor. But i didn't read anything like this here on ECF. Do you steep flavors with the lid off before you use them in your ejuice?

 

[Lydia]

Vappa, see post no. 15 in this thread; http://ukvapers.org/Thread-Steeping-...?page=2
The poster is a professional mixer of e-liquid. In the post he explains the steeping-process in a imo sensible way and gives some advice on how.

Some flavours are with vaping on it’s own not great and needs something extra to “pop-up”. Don’t know this for walnutflavor, sorry, but maybe the walnut taste will pop-up with some drops of ethyl maltol and/or maybe some tobacco or Ry-4 flavor?

 

[Vappa]

Thanks Lydia. Only that the link doesn't work. Or do i need an account there for this thread to pop up?
I will try your suggestion to use the Walnut with EM or in another juice. Thanks!

 

[Vappa]

I decided to try to make my own Walnut flavor.

I'm using a similar method i found here on ECF for making your own coffee flavor. Put crushed walnuts 3/4 in a 30ml dropper bottle along with 1/4 PG. Nuke for 10 seconds. Top off with more PG and nuke again. Then put it in a pot with warm water (against boiling temp) for an hour with heavy shaking every 10 minutes.

I have absolutely no idea whether this is going to work. But you never know until you try...

After the warm water i will leave it alone for 24 hours. Then, tomorrow i will repeat the hot water step. After that, i will filter the juice and have a try. It probably needs some steeping after that so i'll put it in my cabinet for a week and try it again after that.

In the mean time my FA Walnut is steeping also. Still no luck with this one.

 

[Lydia]

First
Vappa, walnut is a fatty/oily nut, I believe. Correct me if I’m wrong on this…I’m no chemist. E-juice with oil in it can be dangerous and even result in death due to causing lipoid pneumonia. See this case of death; http://www.ucanccquit2.org/media/dod/pdf/ecigs_and_lipoid_pnuemonia.pdf

The authors of this article are claiming the cause of death in this case is oil in VG, see the discussion on page 1112: “’For this patient, the suspected source of her exogenous lipoid pneumonia was recurrent exposure to glycerin-based oils found in e-cigarette nicotine vapour.” And “Glycerin is produced by heating palm or coconut oil; however, it can also be produced from animal fat and soap through a fattyacid splitting operation. As discussed, most cases of exogenous lipoid pneumonia are associated with aspiration of mineral oil or lipid-based preparations. There is one published case of exogenous lipoid pneumonia due to inhaling vaporized weed oil. Other cases have been reported involving inhalation of crack ....... mixed with petroleum jelly. To our knowledge, there are no prior published cases of exogenous lipoid pneumonia due to the use of glycerin-based e-cigarettes.”

I believe above mentioned claim on oil in VG can be refuted. After production (pharmagrade) VG has chemically seen no oil in it and therefore can not cause lipoid pneumonia/“Paraffin lungs”. (Correct me if I’m wrong on this…I’m no chemist.) Beyond that, the living life lab with millions of daily e-cig users with VG in their e-liquid is a massive support for the refuting of the claim that VG is the cause. Further, the psychological background of the death person was a schizoaffective disorder. This disorder can result in periodic false perceptions, disordered thought processes and disorganized behavior. What remains is the warning not to put anything (potential) fatty/oily in yr e-liquid.

Second
Vappa, LOL for the Dutchmen: The link in my above post no. 8 isn’t working because of the automatic censure here at ECF; after the word steeping the a ‘word’ is followed with the letters w, t, and then f. The censure change this letterword. The mentioned post no 15 by poster Atmoslab (he's a chemist was told on UKV-forum):

” When someone starts DIY mixing the most common thing is mixing failure.
Many people add flavour to the base in a bottle shake for some secs and try out their creation.
Which is not the correct procedure. Steeping helps juice to bacome homogenized.
Consider that molecules in the juice have kinetic energy and are always moving. So they mix better even if you mixed only for a while.

The second reason steeping is good for eliquids is that flavours are aromatic molecules that make clusters with pg, vg during time. This clustering has as result to have a more rounded aroma with less aromatic "edges".

For every eliquid 3-7 days steeping is a good tool for better results.
We are not talking for anything complicated. Steeping for me means "let it be". Not "maturing" or wine-like else. Simple things.”

 

[Vappa]

Hi Lydia, interesting excerpt of that article. The link is (temporarily) not working, but i will try again later on.
As far as i know (but i'm also no chemist) all nuts have an oily substance in them. If that what's extracted during my process, i believe sooner or later it will float on the PG when steeping for a few weeks. In that case i can always decide to throw it away.

On the other hand, the flavors you can buy (almond, mixed nut, hazelnut, walnut) do not have anything float on them. That either means my assumption is wrong, or that it is not the nut's oil that is giving the flavor but something else that does mix with the PG. I think (or better: hope) the latter is true, as these flavors are used by a lot of us vapers, including me. And so far i did not read about nut flavors being risky or bad for vaping (except for peanuts, as is explained on the site of FA, indicating it contains diacetyl).

Thanks for the warning anyway. It's good that you are thinking with me on this. As the article refers to recurrent exposure to vaping oil, i will just try my Walnut a few times, so not on a regular base, as long as i don't know the exacts on this. Maybe others can shine their light on this?

I the mean time, i honestly believe that my experiment will fail as i cannot believe that it is this simple to create a walnut flavor
I the rare case that it IS that simple and my experiment leads to success you will read about it here.

So, today i will go for the second run of putting my bottle of walnut/PG mix in a hot water bath and regular shaking the bottle. After that i will filter the juice and give it a first try, while letting the rest steep for a few weeks.

Oh, and i will replace the words in the link with the ones you suggested and try if it works that way

 

[Vappa]

Second
Vappa, LOL for the Dutchmen: The link in my above post no. 8 isn’t working because of the automatic censure here at ECF; after the word steeping the a ‘word’ is followed with the letters w, t, and then f. The censure change this letterword. The mentioned post no 15 by poster Atmoslab (he's a chemist was told on UKV-forum):

” When someone starts DIY mixing the most common thing is mixing failure.
Many people add flavour to the base in a bottle shake for some secs and try out their creation.
Which is not the correct procedure. Steeping helps juice to bacome homogenized.
Consider that molecules in the juice have kinetic energy and are always moving. So they mix better even if you mixed only for a while.

The second reason steeping is good for eliquids is that flavours are aromatic molecules that make clusters with pg, vg during time. This clustering has as result to have a more rounded aroma with less aromatic "edges".

For every eliquid 3-7 days steeping is a good tool for better results.
We are not talking for anything complicated. Steeping for me means "let it be". Not "maturing" or wine-like else. Simple things.”

Yeah, i know about the steeping. Juices i test i steep at least 24 hours (for fruits) or 1 week. Juices i make for regular vaping i steep as long as possible but at least 2 weeks.
Thing is that this FA Walnut flavor stood in my cabinet for 3 weeks before i started to test it. When i made my first test batch i let this steep for 1 week but without results. A test batch i made with this last week also steeped for 1 week. Today i tried it but again hardly any taste other then some coconut taste in the background.

So for me this FA walnut is a hard one to crack. I let the flavor steep, let the juice i made with it steep, but so far no satisfying results.

I hope that my own walnut juice does a little more on the taste...

 

[Vappa]

Day 2 of DIY cration of Walnut flavor:
I put the walnut/PG in a hot bath for an hour with in-between shaking of the bottle. After that i filtered it twice. It still is a little cloudy.
I decided not to try it yet but to let it steep for a week. So after a week you'll find more here...

 

[Lydia]

Hi Lydia, interesting excerpt of that article. The link is (temporarily) not working, but i will try again later on.

Again link problems? Oh well, use yr browser + copy-paste;
www.ucanquit2.org/media/dod/pdf/ecigs_and_lipoid_pnuemonia.pdf

Or you can search it elsewhere....It’s the article “Cigarette Use An Unexpected Consequence of Electronic Cigarette Use, by McCauley, L. et al, in CHEST (Journal); Vol 141; No 4; pp 1110-1113.

Edit: it became a link again.....and yeaaaah...this link is working when I clicked it.

 

[Vappa]

Two weeks down the road, it's still steeping.

 

[Vappa]

So, two months further down the road. I still didn't try my own brew of Walnut.
But... The last month i tried Walnut of LorAnn, Inawera and... the Flavour Art Walnut again. Of all three, i like the FA best.

Now that it had the opportunity to steep for several months i revisited the FA Walnut. At 15% it tastes delicious. So, it's working for me now. And best of all, i have two more Walnut flavors that are quite nice.

 

[boomerdude]

"Put crushed walnuts 3/4 in a 30ml dropper bottle along with 1/4 PG. Nuke for 10 seconds."

Walnuts, at least the oils in them can be poisonous. Be careful.

 

[Vappa]

"Put crushed walnuts 3/4 in a 30ml dropper bottle along with 1/4 PG. Nuke for 10 seconds."

Walnuts, at least the oils in them can be poisonous. Be careful.

That's why i still did not try my own brew. I think i'll just toss it, since my FA Walnut is working for me now. And it not working for me was the reason to make my own.
Well, maybe just one vape. Just to check that my extraction worked...