Disappointing vapor production with Russian 91% and MVP 2

[loudog]

I've been happily puffing away on an MVP 2 / iClear 30 for a couple of months now when I figured I'd try my hand at a rebuildable. After researching it for a while, I decided upon the Russian 91% which arrived in the mail today. Hooray! However, I'm not experiencing the best vapor ever from it.

I've tried building several coils now, using 30 gauge kanthal and 1 mm silica - aiming for between 1.8 and 2.0 ohm. I've tried single wraps with 8, 9 and 10 wraps. I've also loosened the airflow quite a bit which has helped with the draw.

The vapor production is not so great and the flavor is a little better but I still much prefer the vapor production on my iClear 30 (1.8ohm head but reads at 2.2 on the MVP). I don't except to blow clouds like sub-ohming on a mod but I was expecting at least the same amount of vapor as with an iClear.

Does anyone have any tips for how I can improve this? Any good suggestions for a Russian 91/MVP build?

Thanks in advance!

 

[joesquid]

I've never tried silica in my kayfun's so can't really help with that. Have you tried organic cotton? Your R91 should blow away your iclear.

 

[loudog]

I just got it today so haven't tried other wick types. Would cotton make that big of a difference?

 

[djsvapour]

Oh dear.

I never got good vapour with Silica in a Kayfun. I tried three designs of build too.

I use Cotton or Rayon. 6 wraps of 0.25 Kanthal around 3mm bit.

Are you wrapping around the Silica? (old fashioned way...)

 

[loudog]

Hi djsvapour, thanks for the reply.

Yup, doing it the old fashioned way. Well, kind of. I tried doing an "S" shape wick and a double bended wick, so when I cut the loop, I have four strands/wicks to absorb juice. My Russian came with two prewrapped coils but the ohm was too low (it was only wrapped four times) so I ended up trying to build my own.

I managed to improve my vapor production a little bit by extending the 510 connector. Sadly, my iClear is still much better.

Another thing that's really been annoying me is that it will randomly jump down to 0.6 from 1.8 ohm. I figured maybe one connecting wires came loose but when I took everything apart it looked fine. Without fiddling with the coil, I fired it up no problem and it magically went back up to 1.8 ohm.

Do I have a defective Russian or am I just really incompetent at this?

 

[Rwb1500]

Hi djsvapour, thanks for the reply.

Yup, doing it the old fashioned way. Well, kind of. I tried doing an "S" shape wick and a double bended wick, so when I cut the loop, I have four strands/wicks to absorb juice. My Russian came with two prewrapped coils but the ohm was too low (it was only wrapped four times) so I ended up trying to build my own.

I managed to improve my vapor production a little bit by extending the 510 connector. Sadly, my iClear is still much better.

Another thing that's really been annoying me is that it will randomly jump down to 0.6 from 1.8 ohm. I figured maybe one connecting wires came loose but when I took everything apart it looked fine. Without fiddling with the coil, I fired it up no problem and it magically went back up to 1.8 ohm.

Do I have a defective Russian or am I just really incompetent at this?

These things take practice. Your wicking sounds good, my only suggestion at this point would be a coil of lower resistance. Kayfun style atomizers seem to hit their sweet spot between 1 and 1.3 ohms. Try building at 1.3, crank the MVP up to 11 watts and see what happens.

 

[Flyfisher]

try a micro coil at 1.4 - 1.3 30ga 6 times around a 2mm screwdriver or whatever is that diameter and then wick with cotton the flavor is much better than silica and then see what you think of it. i have a taifun gt on my ipv2 with a 1.5 ohm build and at 17 watts it really does well so i can imagine that thinnner wire will heat up faster and give you what you are looking for

 

[Shootist]

Use 28g Kanthal 8 to 10 wraps around a 3/32 drill bit for 1.4 to 1.8 (+/-) ohms and organic cotton or Japanese cotton as the wicking material.

Not 30g and silica.

Oh and that would be a Micro coil squeezed together and torched. Then dry fired on a Mod and re-squeezed so the coil heats from the center out.

I must say you didn't do to much research as I don't know of any reviewer and or users of the Kayfun/Russian design RTA that uses silica and a loose coil.

 

[nicetucu]

I second the organic cotton build would be better. If you want to go better try Japanese cotton or Rayon (just rayon doesn't sit well with me, but people seem to love it).

Ohm level between 1 and 1.4 seems to be most popular for these toppers as mentioned above. Wicking is the most important part of the build and took me a few tries before I got it bullet proof. Thread your cotton through the coil and put the base of the chimney on it threading the cotton so it stick up the top. Cut the cotton wick so it just ever so slightly above the chimney. Take the chimney off and juice the wick and coil and push the wick against the wall (leaving the channels open).

Put it all back together and add juice. You will see the difference. Hope this has helped.

 

[dannyrl]

I recommend making micro coils and wicking with cotton like every else has said. IIRC, my preferred set up on my KFL+ was 6 or 7 wraps of 30ga around a 5/64" drill bit. This got me to about 1.5 ohms. I simply wicked with cotton and made sure the ends were over the juice channels for best wicking. I took my airflow screw out for wide open flow.

Crank up your wattage if you haven't already. The R91 can wick much better and thus can handle the increased wattage.

When I ran my MVP around 10 - 11W, and I could blow clouds with my KFL+ after I reached the max pull time on the MVP lol

 

[EBates]

This video should get your building technique headed in the right direction. Note: it ain't the end all beat all but the basics are there.

How to build a Russian 91% Rebuildable atomizer (RBA) with a micro coil and cotton wick - YouTube

Welcome aboard

OBTW if you haven't already done it, take your russian completely apart and wash and dry all parts. Machine oil and metal filings will not improve the performance or flavor.

 

[xpl0it]

PBusardo offers a high quality and an easy to understand guide to setting up your Russian 91%. Check it out and see how you fare.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=aWrFsa6YOaE#t=1191

 

[VA Vince]

With a 1.2oh coil using cotton, try between 7-10 watts until you hit your sweet spot. BUT with the MVP2, I would build a coil around 1.5-1.7 and try as well.

 

[gn386]

I am new here but what worked for me is 28ga A1 Kanthal at 9 TIGHT wraps for a micro coil blowtorched to initial form it, then dry burns with forming between (NO COTTON while dryburning) organic cotton wick somewhat loose, cut to the width of the base. Wet the cotton with juice, then form with you finger towards the top of the chimney base. Her is where it is hard to put in words and (mine is full at the moment)but only push the ends slightly below the terminals laterally. The key is DON'T touch or block the channels(I did That) then do a quick burn and you should see some fast vapor. Assemble her and enjoy. My coil is right at 1.6 and I am currently running at 11 watts with no burn. You do need to adjust the airflow little at a time to get where you can keep up with the burn. I have run it at 15w with no issue except it borders a hot vape. I experienced the same kinda fluctuation/ frustration as you, after 3 rebuilds I knew it was not the coil. I found that I needed to lower the center post screw1 turn to make a better contact and I was using TOO much cotton( I don't care the directions are Wrong). I had someone actually prove it to me and I was truly amazed after seeing them side by side. Hope this helps, but it worked for me.

 

[Huh?!]

Good info in this thread and good tutorials.

Edit: I build my Russian 91s (currently 3 of them) and mizzpriss's Kayfun at .9-1.2 ohms with 28g kanthal a-1 wire averaging 7 wraps (either 7/6 or 8/7 depending on my mood) using japanese cotton or sterile cotton. GREAT flavor and good vapor production (mizzpriss usually out vapors me lol). The Russian is a great RBA.

 

[tchavei]

Use 28g Kanthal 8 to 10 wraps around a 3/32 drill bit for 1.4 to 1.8 (+/-) ohms and organic cotton or Japanese cotton as the wicking material.

Not 30g and silica.

Oh and that would be a Micro coil squeezed together and torched. Then dry fired on a Mod and re-squeezed so the coil heats from the center out.

I must say you didn't do to much research as I don't know of any reviewer and or users of the Kayfun/Russian design RTA that uses silica and a loose coil.

I'm sorry but there are people out there that don't want to use cotton and prefer having a lower maintainance tank.

Silica works just fine if you're lucky to find a way to wick it that works for you.

Last week I saw a YouTube video (unfortunately I can't remember the reviewer) where the author was showing how to wick a kayfun with silica because, in his own words, he developed some kind of intolerance to cotton.

There are much more videos out there using silica on kayfun type tanks so I am pretty sure the OP did in fact done his research. And maybe, just maybe, you didn't yours?

Maybe Not everyone wants cotton in his builds? I certainly don't want it on mines and I have plenty of vapor at 1.19 Ohms, 10w. Certainly much more than on a iclear or whatever the name is....


My two euro cents


Regards
Tony

Sent from my GT-I9195 through Tapatalk

 

[loudog]

Thanks for all the replies! I must admit I am bit overwhelmed (better phrase is pleased!!) with all the replies! I had a business dinner so I came home a teensy bit drunk but am looking forward to trying my luck again using all the useful suggestions I've gotten tonight Tomorrow evening I'm going to give it another try as I've read/seen/heard far too many good things about the Russian 91% to just give up. Hell, if anything else it's an interesting hobby. My girlfriends left to meet some people and asked how it was going with me. I replied "I hate my new hobby!!", jokingly of course

I did do a little research but obviously I could have done more. It just looked so easy after watching all those vids on youtube! However I'm sure I wouldn't be able to do a 1080 Shaun White move just from watching so, just like everything else, I have to work at it!

Thanks again for all the great tips, I'll definitely apply them tomorrow when I jump back up and am ready to try a hand at this again!

 

[Rwb1500]

Use 28g Kanthal 8 to 10 wraps around a 3/32 drill bit for 1.4 to 1.8 (+/-) ohms and organic cotton or Japanese cotton as the wicking material.

Not 30g and silica.

Oh and that would be a Micro coil squeezed together and torched. Then dry fired on a Mod and re-squeezed so the coil heats from the center out.

I must say you didn't do to much research as I don't know of any reviewer and or users of the Kayfun/Russian design RTA that uses silica and a loose coil.

That's borderline rude. Google "figure 8 Kayfun". Popular Ekowool build with a freehand coil. Nothing wrong with it at all, have a build just like it in one of my Kayfuns right now.

I tire of this juvenile "micro coils are the be-all end-all of rebuildables" attitude. There are plenty of ways to skin a cat, and more ways to build a perfectly good Kayfun

I'm sorry but there are people out there that don't want to use cotton and prefer having a lower maintainance tank.

Silica works just fine if you're lucky to find a way to wick it that works for you.

Last week I saw a YouTube video (unfortunately I can't remember the reviewer) where the author was showing how to wick a kayfun with silica because, in his own words, he developed some kind of intolerance to cotton.

There are much more videos out there using silica on kayfun type tanks so I am pretty sure the OP did in fact done his research. And maybe, just maybe, you didn't yours?

Maybe Not everyone wants cotton in his builds? I certainly don't want it on mines and I have plenty of vapor at 1.19 Ohms, 10w. Certainly much more than on a iclear or whatever the name is....


My two euro cents


Regards
Tony

Sent from my GT-I9195 through Tapatalk

I concur. I just plain don't like the way cotton tastes. Some people can taste it, some can't.

 

[tchavei]

There is even a nice way to have both i. e. a nice full contact coil (technically a micro coil has to be at or less than 1.65mm I. D. so anything over is just a contact coil) and a figure 8 Ekowool wick if one uses a modified steam sandwich technique (instead of pushing a sandwiched 3rd wick, you bend the lower part of the original double bended wick in between the two legs and pull it through all together... Best of both worlds... Nice and tight figure 8 wick but also replaceable without needing to make a new coil


Regards
Tony

Sent from my GT-I9195 through Tapatalk

 

[McCoys]

Pretty new to vaping and even newer to rebuildables. I already have 4 Kebo Russians, two full and two 91%. I run my MVP2 @ 4.1V and the "P" at 10. For coils I use 28ga Kanthal - 7 wraps @ 1.4Ω. I stay away from micro coils and opt for mini coils. Micro coils just cant supply enough juice to keep up with the wick. For wicking I use a rather hard to find Peruvian organic non-dyed unbleached cotton yarn that varies in width uniformly every couple of inches from 1mm - 2mm. It is double stranded. 167 yards for $10 shipped from the USA.
The rod I use to wrap is a click wider than a coat hanger wire. Hardly a micro coil.
I thread the 1mm cotton wick tail through the coil and draw the widest part of the yarn (2mm) to the center of the coil. Snip it to rest on the shoulders of the block and paste (with juice) the wick to the sides of the positive block away from the juice channels but generously resting on the block.
Wet the cotton completely, rebuild and vape. .
I dry burn the coil and rewick when the flavor gets muted.