Disrespectful Little Punk

[NathanielFT]

Nice theory, only it doesn't work that way. People see an idiot doing something, and assume all people who do the same thing are idiots. It's just human nature.

Case in point, I'm a cyclist. I stop at red lights and stop signs. But I can't count the number of people who've told me "I hate cyclists: they're a public danger, they don't respect anything on the road."

Really? All cyclists?

Well, that's what people do: they generalize. One idiot blowing through a red light in front of 15 motorists gives us all law-abiding riders a bad name for said 15 motorists, who will no doubt tell all their friends and family members what idiots cyclists are.

Likewise, one ...... who vapes where he shouldn't gives us all respectful vapers a bad name.

Yep and i totally agree, some generalise and some don't, but whether they do or not really isn't my concern and just because there are ignorant people around doesn't make it my responsibility to appease them, regardless of who thinks it does


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[MD_Boater]

I informed him that he could wait five minutes to vape or ask the manager if she didn't mind him being a hipster while shopping. Again, I told him this is one reason we are getting a bad wrap. Blank stare... so I left. I had a strong suspicion that he wasn't vaping to quit his tobacco addiction but to 'look cool' while being a .... at the same time.

How can you be 100% certain that he doesn't go to that particular store every day, knows all of the employees (that cashier may have been his wife or sister), and that he hadn't previously asked for and received permission? You can't. I think you may have made a lot of assumptions about HIS behavior before you put enough thought into your own actions. I give the "blank stare" response whenever someone I do not know goes beyond what I perceive is an appropriate boundary. If you had approached me in the same manner, I would have given it to you. That is my way of showing that your comments are not getting any consideration from me, and that they had absolutely zero impact on my life.

My primary issue with this is that I do not agree with your predisposition that vaping in public will cause problems. There must have been plenty of non smokers and non vapers in that store. They are the ones most likely to take offense. There is always one person willing to speak up. You noticed the behavior and acted based on your suspicion that it may eventually cause problems for all of us vapers. I understand your intentions, but we already have problems. As someone mentioned, none of them have been of the "can you believe that this person is vaping in a church, school, grocery store, etc. types of complaints. There haven't been any stories at all (at least none found and linked to on this forum by ECF members). The NS/NV crowd may have noticed that he was "smoking" in line, but then realized that there was no smell, no lingering smoke, and that they were not in the least affected, or offended. It may in fact, make people realize that vaping is actually an improvement over smoking, and one that they can coexist with in harmony. Hiding vaping like we are doing something wrong is not going to help us win any battles. We need to vape around more people that do not. I have not run into a single person that I have not been able to demonstrate this fact to.

I got into a car with 2 people the other day. One of them had previously been around me while I vaped, and was expecting to be in the car with a vaper. The other was a "fake cough" non smoker. About 5 minutes into the ride, I pulled my PV out and was about to take a puff when the other person asked that I not smoke in their presence. I replied, "No problem, my PV does not produce smoke, and you will not have anything in your face, or lungs. Please let me show you...". I took a very small puff, and exhaled it into the space between us. I then asked them to take a whiff. They admitted that they did not smell anything, and they commented on how quickly the vapor dissipated. I told them to let me know if it bothered them, but that I was going to continue vape. I vaped quite a bit over the next 50 or so minutes, mostly exhaling the vape down and away from them. When we got out of the car, they told me that they had no idea that they could be that close to someone vaping and not even notice it. After I explained how it helped me kick a 30 year PAD+ habit in 5 days without even trying, they became a vaping supporter.

People doing things wrong try to hide them. People doing things that are not "wrong" should not try (or be expected to try) to hide them. It gives the wrong impression.

We are losing ground every day. We need to get vaping in front of as many people as we possibly can as quickly as we can. It is much easier to point to local health departments and the FDA and get people to believe that government is overreaching if they understand what they are looking at. The FACTS are on our side, and we need to demonstrate, publicize, and yes, force people to be around us while we are vaping in order to get them to realize that the governments are feeding them BS about vaping. Even when I run across that 1 person out of 500 that says that vaping does bother them, I know better. They are just unwilling to concede that vaping is a perfectly acceptable activity based on their own predispositions. Fortunately, I know that on the inside, they are conflicted because they know that they are just putting on a fake display of being offended. We KNOW that vaping is not offensive to non vapers. Its just not. When we vapers turn on each other in public as you did, the non vapers may begin to get the idea that they should be confronting us as well.

Please do not take offense to this. I am not trying to attack you personally, nor am I trying to offend you. I apologize if I have. It just frosts me every time I see one of these posts and your's was just the latest in a string of what I personally believe is the wrong position. Not once that I am aware of has vaping in the grocery store been mentioned in an FDA or legislative session about banning vaping. The arguments against are never about the smell, or even the clouds. It is always about "looks like". Our answer to "looks like" should always be "It may look like, but it is NOT". We should not be arguing with each other in public, which gives the ANTZ more ammunition. If you absolutely feel the NEED to confront a vaper about their vaping, please do it in the parking lot as far away from non vapers as you can.

 

[rzil]

I really hate when some vapers say "hey it's not ilegal" , those people don't understand that it makes non-smoker associate ecigs with tobacco cig , also farting is not ilegal , does that mean its cool to make huge farts next to people?

 

[KenD]

I really hate when some vapers say "hey it's not ilegal" , those people don't understand that it makes non-smoker associate ecigs with tobacco cig , also farting is not ilegal , does that mean its cool to make huge farts next to people?

How does "hey it's not illegal" make non-smokers associate vaping with smoking?

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[NathanielFT]

I really hate when some vapers say "hey it's not ilegal" , those people don't understand that it makes non-smoker associate ecigs with tobacco cig , also farting is not ilegal , does that mean its cool to make huge farts next to people?

What makes people associate vaping with smoking is over cautious vapers treating vaping with a smoking stigma. And can we please stop comparing vaping to bloody farting they are not the same lol! Jeez some of u sound like u actually want vaping heavily sanctioned, your doing a good job of volunteering unwanted sanctions yourself!


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[zoiDman]

...

Although he was right, it's not illegal. I informed him that he could wait five minutes to vape or ask the manager if she didn't mind him being a hipster while shopping. Again, I told him this is one reason we are getting a bad wrap. Blank stare... so I left. I had a strong suspicion that he wasn't vaping to quit his tobacco addiction but to 'look cool' while being a .... at the same time.

...

And you Wonder why there are More and More Bans being Enacted on the City, County and State Level?

 

[ArtyPa]

I believe it's a matter of situational awareness.
Social awareness is tough to enforce ...just because it's not 'illegal'.
Lots of things are 'not illegal' but still could be considered rude in a public context.
This whole thread argues BOTH sides equally.
The tie breaker in my mind is that 2 conflicting norms came together that day ( the OP and the 'kid') neither one really knew the boundaries appropriate for their role.
OP couldn't resist trying to give UNSOLICITED advice to 'kid'. Kid couldn't resist showing off my 'fake smoking' inside a no smoking environment. Both were inappropriate in their actions.
Its the difference between knowing how to talk in your 'inside ' voice and your 'outside' voice. It takes practice and sense of social discernment.

 

[Tangaroav]

'' OP couldn't resist trying to give UNSOLICITED advice to 'kid'. Kid couldn't resist showing off my 'fake smoking' inside a no smoking environment. Both were inappropriate in their actions. ''

Where does the '' showing off '' argument comes from ? The 'kid' as this chap is being called was vaping. He is being accused, tried for inappropiate, bad and irresponsible behavior. All this based on a zealot's interpretation of public vaping.

Give us all a break !

 

[crxess]

What makes people associate vaping with smoking is over cautious vapers treating vaping with a smoking stigma. And can we please stop comparing vaping to bloody farting they are not the same lol! Jeez some of u sound like u actually want vaping heavily sanctioned, your doing a good job of volunteering unwanted sanctions yourself!


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Not hardly!

What makes people associate Vaping with smoking is one of two things.
1) People that now you smoke seeing (seemingly) smoke coming from your mouth/nose and not knowing you switched.
2) ANTZ screaming out that VAPING is just like SMOKING and people accepting that.

There is a difference between courtesy and caution.

Point for reference:
If I choose not to vape in a check out line - I am not hiding a damn thing. I am just one more customer waiting to pay and leave the area.

I could care less if 5 people are Vaping, my decision is my decision and has nothing to do with rights, Guilt or shame. I was raised to be courteous and I still attempt to practice that.
Consider it my way of not ripping a Cabbage Fart while standing right in front of you.

 

[e-pipeman]

I really hate when some vapers say "hey it's not ilegal" , those people don't understand that it makes non-smoker associate ecigs with tobacco cig , also farting is not ilegal , does that mean its cool to make huge farts next to people?

If vaping was the equivalent of a huge fart then I might agree - but it isn't really, is it? Unless your farts smell like RY4

 

[Giraut]

That's the problem with the me-me-me-and-to-hell-with-what-others-think culture that has permeated society, particularly in the US. I'm sorry, but when you behave like a jerk, you hurt the community you belong to (and whether you want to belong to it or not, you do), that community gets a bad rep as a result, and that ends up hurting YOU as a member of that community.

Don't you see you hurt your OWN rights to vape in the long run when you vape without considering what others might think? Surely even the most hardened egotist must realize society - you know, other people that aren't you - surrounds them, there's nothing they can do about it, and society will push them and their perceived rights back if they behave like jerks.

You, we, all vapers, have a duty to behave respectfully, to paint vaping in a positive light. You may not care about other vapers, and what non-vapers think about you, but in the end if you behave responsibly, you help yourself be accepted. Rest assured that it only takes a few jackasses vaping in the waiting line at Walmart - because it's their right and others be damned - for lawmakers to take away their right to vape in a Walmart.

Don't vape where you shouldn't, so the general public thinks benevolently about the whole vaping communiy, and eventually we'll all get the right to vape everywhere. Stop thinking about your immediate rights to do something and look a little farther then the tip of your own nose.

 

[e-pipeman]

Behaving like a jerk is very subjective, though. One man's jerk is another man's role model. Cultural and social mores matter too. I personally feel that the only way to normalise vaping is to make vaping seem normal. But this is clearly a very complex area with many differing opinions.

 

[DaveP]

I vape in public but not next to people in a store. I pick those times when there's no one within 25 feet of me to vape. Vaping at a checkoput counter is just rude.

That said, the only way we will make people aware of vaping is to be seen doing it. Occasionally I get people walking up to me and inquiring about my ecig. I get to tell them that it helped to take me off a 40 year smoking habit and probably kept me from dying a gasping death in a decade or two. I tell them how I can now exercise daily without turning blue when I ride my exercise bike and work with free weights. I get to give out vendor cards and write the ECF URL on the back. They usually thank me for explaining vaping and tell me they are going to insist that a relative tries vaping out to get off those nasty cigarettes.

If i didn't vape in public I would never have the chance to be a source of information. There are about 42 million smokers left in the US. It's our job to make them aware that they CAN quit. If no one sees us in public, they won't come up and start a conversation.

 

[e-pipeman]

There are over 600 million smokers left in the US. It's our job to make them aware that they CAN quit. If no one sees us in public, they won't come up and start a conversation.

That's a lot of smokers. And I agree with you.

 

[crxess]

If vaping was the equivalent of a huge fart then I might agree - but it isn't really, is it? Unless your farts smell like RY4

According to one of our own members - He had to give up vaping his favorite mix in the house. He said while it tasted delicious, others thought he had crapped his pants.
Yes, some vapes smell awesome............others, not so much.
Also as Taste is Subjective.............. Likewise Smell is also subjective. Anything perfumy sends my wife into respiratory distress.
I vape right next to her but make sure my vape is not bothering her.
Why should I offer a stranger any less respect?

 

[DaveP]

That's a lot of smokers. And I agree with you.

BTW, It's not 600M smokers left, it's more like 42M adults.

 

[wheezal]

BTW, It's not 600M smokers left, it's more like 42M adults.

i was wonderin....there are only 300m peeps in the U.S. so that number was kinda weird to me.

then again, i just assumed it was because you was from teh future where the population has grown out of control!

 

[Myk]

I believe it's a matter of situational awareness.
Social awareness is tough to enforce ...just because it's not 'illegal'.
Lots of things are 'not illegal' but still could be considered rude in a public context.
This whole thread argues BOTH sides equally.
The tie breaker in my mind is that 2 conflicting norms came together that day ( the OP and the 'kid') neither one really knew the boundaries appropriate for their role.
OP couldn't resist trying to give UNSOLICITED advice to 'kid'. Kid couldn't resist showing off my 'fake smoking' inside a no smoking environment. Both were inappropriate in their actions.
Its the difference between knowing how to talk in your 'inside ' voice and your 'outside' voice. It takes practice and sense of social discernment.

Except the only view we have is from someone who says public vaping outside of smoking areas is bad AND thinks it's his place to go tell strangers how to act.
We know the "punk" was using an eGo device so I kind of doubt there was much rudeness going on, at least not from the "punk" (although there could've been, I could produce clouds from some of the stuff I had on eGos but I can also vape respectfully with RBAs on APVs).

People are going to do what people do. Trying to cause a scene isn't going to make it better, it's just going to cause a scene. If what people do requires laws or causes laws I don't see what the difference will be compared to how the people complaining propose people treat vaping.
Treating vaping just like smoking are the laws we are fighting.

 

[Asbestos4004]

Go back and read the op....he didn't cause a scene or attack anyone. There was a 50/50 chance the guy responded differently. Nothing wrong with talking to him. That's part of "doing what we can" too. Its not only educating non vapers, is it?

 

[Myk]

Go back and read the op....he didn't cause a scene or attack anyone. There was a 50/50 chance the guy responded differently. Nothing wrong with talking to him. That's part of "doing what we can" too. Its not only educating non vapers, is it?

I see him claim "politely" and then to proceed to describe unfounded blame, name calling and more blame, anything but being polite. Considering the title of the post I'm guessing the description we got came with a sugar coating.

Reminds me of the ANTZ teaching little kids it's OK to go up and talk to strangers if you're lecturing them about smoking. Which I've experienced and it is rude, and they got a rude response back.