DIY beginner questions

[Road King]

So I'm starting to think about getting into DIY liquid & have been doing a lot of reading, but there is SO much info out there (and sometimes quite contradictory) that I'm already overwhelmed. I like high VG, sweet juices & have been looking at supplies from such places as Flavor Art, Capella & ecigexpress, to name a few. I have been making notes on equipment like screw-cap glass vials, 30 ml dropper bottles, glass measuring cups funnels, syringes, ethyl malt, PG, VG & nicotine etc.

I saw a couple of "kits" online & looked interesting from companies like Flavor Shack.

How would they be for a beginner? Waste of money? Good investment? Or should I just figure out EXACTLY what I need & buy everything up separately?

TIA

 

[dannyv45]

Kits are OK for a beginner but you do pay for a lot of stuff you'll not need. The best thing you can do is research. Let me give you a starting point that will answer all of your questions and then some. I understand a lot of what you read is over whelming and contradictory but what I am providing is straight forward and proven already by many here on ECF.

My blogs will give insight into all aspects of DIY, from steeping to what supplies to have on hand to a basic walk through mixing your first E-juice.

E-Cigarette Forum - dannyv45 - Blogs

Then read hoosier's blogs. These blogs concentrate on fine tuning your mix and give insight on additives.

E-Cigarette Forum - Hoosier - Blogs

Then read Boletus's blog's. These blogs concentrate on formulation of nicotine bases regarding proper calculations methods for figuring Nicotine concentration as well as safety.

E-Cigarette Forum - Boletus - Blogs

Then read Ginger's book "E-Cigarettes 102: DIY E-Liquid". It is a book which I've contributed to that delivers an in depth easy to follow guide in the art of DYI.

E-Cigarettes 102: DIY E-Liquid

I recommend viewing VPLive Vape Team Episode #82: DIY Safety and bookmark it for future reference. It explains safety in all aspects of DYI.

VPLive Vape Team Episode #82: DIY Safety

then read the stickies at the top of the page.

this will explain a lot of the how's and why's.

 

[sofarsogood]

So I'm starting to think about getting into DIY liquid & have been doing a lot of reading, but there is SO much info out there (and sometimes quite contradictory) that I'm already overwhelmed. I like high VG, sweet juices & have been looking at supplies from such places as Flavor Art, Capella & Ecigexpress, to name a few. I have been making notes on equipment like screw-cap glass vials, 30 ml dropper bottles, glass measuring cups funnels, syringes, ethyl malt, PG, VG & nicotine etc.

I saw a couple of "kits" online & this one http://www.diyflavorshack.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=The+PREMIUM+DIY+Kitlooked interesting from Flavor Shack.

How would it work for a beginner? Waste of money? Good investment?

TIA

I delayed DIY for months because I thought it was SO complicated and I might fail and waste money, blah blah blah. This forum is responsible for making it look much harder than it is. First you won't make a transition to gormet e liquid overnight so don't try. When you understand all the advantages of DIY you may not care about that any more. (I use 1% flavoring. Coil gunking almost elminated. Odor is hard for bystanders to detect and if it leaks from pocket carry I don't smell like a reheated fish dinner.)

Instead of worrying about flavoring in the beginning just dilute commercial pre mix that you know you like. I can make unflavored with the same percents of PG, VG, and nic and dilute my favorite online pre mix to 25/75 and it still tastes fine. Now you are saving serious money and there's no pressure to be chef vape.

I got a 1 liter bottle of 100mg nic from myfreedomsmokes. I store it in the freezer in 4 250 ml amber glass bottles wrapped in thin bubble wrap and tape or string. I measure nic with a 10 ml syringe with vinyl tubing instead of a needle to get to the bottom of the 250 ml bottle as the level goes down. Lately I mix 100 ml in a batch. I pour the PG and VG directly into a 50 ml erlanmeyer flask for measuring that. Do the same with the pre mix if you are flavoring by diluting that.

If you start by diluting premix it will build confidence, save money and no chef vape pressure. You really should have a minimal stockpile incase of government interference. 3 liters of nic ($150) will last me 10 years. For some that might last 30 years. PG and nic can't spoil like food. They appear to be stable and likely to last indefinitely if kept cold and protected from light and oxygen.

 

[Road King]

Kits are OK for a beginner but you do pay for a lot of stuff you'll not need. The best thing you can do is research. Let me give you a starting point that will answer all of your questions and then some. I understand a lot of what you read is over whelming and contradictory but what I am providing is straight forward and proven already by many here on ECF.

My blogs will give insight into all aspects of DIY, from steeping to what supplies to have on hand to a basic walk through mixing your first E-juice.

E-Cigarette Forum - dannyv45 - Blogs

Then read hoosier's blogs. These blogs concentrate on fine tuning your mix and give insight on additives.

E-Cigarette Forum - Hoosier - Blogs

Then read Boletus's blog's. These blogs concentrate on formulation of nicotine bases regarding proper calculations methods for figuring Nicotine concentration as well as safety.

E-Cigarette Forum - Boletus - Blogs

Then read Ginger's book "E-Cigarettes 102: DIY E-Liquid". It is a book which I've contributed to that delivers an in depth easy to follow guide in the art of DYI.

E-Cigarettes 102: DIY E-Liquid

I recommend viewing VPLive Vape Team Episode #82: DIY Safety and bookmark it for future reference. It explains safety in all aspects of DYI.

VPLive Vape Team Episode #82: DIY Safety

then read the stickies at the top of the page.

this will explain a lot of the how's and why's.

Wow! Thanks Danny. When I clicked the first link & saw all the others, I realized I probably hit the mother load for info. I am an information junkie & love researching, so it looks like you've certainly provided the opportunity. Now to get to it.

I delayed DIY for months because I thought it was SO complicated and I might fail and waste money, blah blah blah. This forum is responsible for making it look much harder than it is. First you won't make a transition to gormet e liquid overnight so don't try. When you understand all the advantages of DIY you may not care about that any more. (I use 1% flavoring. Coil gunking almost elminated. Odor is hard for bystanders to detect and if it leaks from pocket carry I don't smell like a reheated fish dinner.)

Instead of worrying about flavoring in the beginning just dilute commercial pre mix that you know you like. I can make unflavored with the same percents of PG, VG, and nic and dilute my favorite online pre mix to 25/75 and it still tastes fine. Now you are saving serious money and there's no pressure to be chef vape.

I got a 1 liter bottle of 100mg nic from myfreedomsmokes. I store it in the freezer in 4 250 ml amber glass bottles wrapped in thin bubble wrap and tape or string. I measure nic with a 10 ml syringe with vinyl tubing instead of a needle to get to the bottom of the 250 ml bottle as the level goes down. Lately I mix 100 ml in a batch. I pour the PG and VG directly into a 50 ml erlanmeyer flask for measuring that. Do the same with the pre mix if you are flavoring by diluting that.

If you start by diluting premix it will build confidence, save money and no chef vape pressure. You really should have a minimal stockpile incase of government interference. 3 liters of nic ($150) will last me 10 years. For some that might last 30 years. PG and nic can't spoil like food. They appear to be stable and likely to last indefinitely if kept cold and protected from light and oxygen.

And thank you, SFSG. Good advice in layman's terms, you've convinced me not to be so intimidated with the whole venture. Until now, I wasn't for sure going to try it, but after the responses you two have provided, I figure why not?

Now to find the time.....

Thanks again.

 

[JCinFLA]

By all means...it's not only very cost effective, but fun, too! I only started DIY alittle more than 2 months ago, and I'm loving it. Recipes are everywhere for you to try; many longtime, very knowledgeable DIY people are on here to answer questions as you go along; you'll love the cost savings; and if you want to try making some new flavor eliquid that you've imagined in your mind...you can "go for it"!

Have fun, just make sure you follow safety info. (especially with the nic), and hang in there even if you make what you think is a "dud" or 2 sometimes. Don't flush them though, as with age they may be better-tasting, or you could combine them with something else that may make them better-tasting. We've all been there, done that, too.

 

[dannyv45]

Wow! Thanks Danny. When I clicked the first link & saw all the others, I realized I probably hit the mother load for info. I am an information junkie & love researching, so it looks like you've certainly provided the opportunity. Now to get to it.

Read as much as you can and please ask questions we are all ready to help. What I provided you will give you a sold foundation to get started and help you formulate your questions. Welcome to the world of DIY

 

[BrotherBob]

Might like to take a look at this thread:
How hard is it to get in to DIY liqiud?
The last poster likes mixing by weight rather than syringe/volume. Your choice, do what you feel comfortable measuring with. Both methods have their advantages.

 

[Susan~S]

When I got into DIY I skipped the kit. I had saved all my 30ml & 60ml glass dropper bottles and did not need any labware. I use Mason jars (used for canning) to mix in and mix by weight.

For a juice mixing calculator I use eJuiceMeUp

• Video tutorial on using it (if you are mixing by volume).
• If you are interested in mixing by weight (vs volume) here are a couple of great videos
  1. How to Use eJuiceMeUp Calculator and Mix with a Scale
  2. Mixing by Weight (a DIY Tutorial)

 

[Capt.shay]

I personally would not get a kit. As was mentioned, you will pay for a lot of stuff you will never use.

To get started, pick some recipes you think you might like and order the flavors for those recipes.

Order small bottles of flavoring until you are sure you like something (Bull City, MFS)

Don't try to recreate flavors you have had before identically. That can drive you nuts. Instead aim for flavors in the neighborhood and see which of your creations taste best to you.

Baby Food jars make great lab ware.

Buy a scale. Use it. I will never go back to rinsing out syringes.

Have Fun!

 

[sofarsogood]

I mix into 120 ml and 240 ml bottles accumulated while I was buying pre mix online. I store nic in amber glass bottles that were purchased from my nic source, myfreedom smokes. I have a big collection of syringes and only use two of them. I measure flavoring by dripping into a 3 ml syrings with my finger covering the bottom hole. I measure nic with a 10 ml syringe and draw the liquid through a vinyl tube pressed onto the syringe. PG and VG are measured by pouring directly into a 50 ml erlanmeyer flask.

Some things you can do for safety. Wear safety glasses to remind youself not to rub your eyes until after you wash your hands at the end of the session. Gather everything needed before you start so you don't need to leave anything unattended. At the shop where I work we have "spill kits" which are cleaning supplies at hand in case any liquids are spilled on the floor. You want to be prepared for dropping and breaking a nic supply bottle on the floor. If that happens you'll want protective gloves, dust pan for the glass, bucket, mop, sponges, etc. at hand and ready to use. I keep my active nic supply bottle small (250 ml) and don't buy higher than 100mg (10%) to keep things safer.

 

[Road King]

Thank you all for the advice. I appreciate it. So I'm making a list on My Freedom Smokes for the basic stuff.
So far I've got the following items on that list:
500 ml VG- $10.95
250 ml PG (I like 70-80% VG-dominant juices)- $6.95
5-pack assorted-sized syringes w/blunt nose needles- $3.95
250 ml amber glass bottle w/screw cap- $2.94
125 ml amber glass bottle w/dropper cap (I'm thinking for nicotine)- $2.18
2-pack of bellows pipettes- $3.45
I already have a couple of beakers to use, so I won't need those.

I have a question about the nicotine. I am thinking of buying 125 ml of unflavored, already in a 75 VG 25 PG mix. My question is on the strength. I currently vape 3 mg in the commercial juices I buy. They are offering 24 mg (125 ml) for $7.99 & 100 mg for $17.99. I believe these numbers to represent the nicotine per ml, right? Wouldn't the 24 be the way to go for a beginner, who may screw up more or am I missing something here? I plan on making 60-100 ml batches to start, or does anyone else have a better suggestion? I'm reading that the nicotine should be stored in the freezer? What kind of container would work best (it comes in glass)? What about storage conditions for the VG & PG, anything special?

Once I get the nicotine thing figured out I will turn my attention to flavors. I have been looking at Lorann, FW, Capella, FA & TFA so far. I could see where it would be easy (and expensive) to get carried away! I am ordering flavors last, after I get the supply list straightened out, as I figured I'd make a list of recipes I'd like to try & then start off with those flavorings. Sound about right? What else am I missing or should be thinking about?

As always, TIA.

 

[Capt.shay]

I would buy your nic. in either PG or VG not pre-mixed. You will be doing the mixing and setting the ratios as you mix. I prefer nic. in PG as I find it easier to work with and don't need more than 80vg/20pg or so. If you need higher ratio then consider getting it in vg. 100mg/ml is your best bang for your buck

This is good stuff 1 Liter EU Sourced Throat-Hit Nic (100 mg USP/EP)


Get some glass storage bottles from Wizard so you can freeze your nic for storage and it will last indefinitely.

And I still recommend a scale

 

[dannyv45]

I agree with what was said above. Get your NIC in either PG or VG and not a combination of both. This is why your buying your PG/VG seperatly. You will be creating your own ratio mix down by adding plain PG, VG and a percentage NIC solution. If your going to vape higher VG get your NIC in all VG.

I noticed your getting 120ml and 250ml bottles. Also get yourself some 10 - 15ml bottles or viles to make test samples. Don't start off making big batches because that is a waste of material. If you make a batch and it comes out bad then you'll only be dumping it. Better to dump small amounts then large amounts. I make 10ml samples in a 15ml bottle this gives me room to make adjustments or fine tune the mix. If it can't be fixed I'm wasting 10 - 15mls and not 120 or 250mls. Write everything down so when your mix is perfect you can repeat the process when making large batches.

 

[Scy123]

I have a question about the nicotine. I am thinking of buying 125 ml of unflavored, already in a 75 VG 25 PG mix. My question is on the strength. I currently vape 3 mg in the commercial juices I buy. They are offering 24 mg (125 ml) for $7.99 & 100 mg for $17.99. I believe these numbers to represent the nicotine per ml, right? Wouldn't the 24 be the way to go for a beginner, who may screw up more or am I missing something here?

I would suggest 100mg. 24mg is too diluted and probably end up costing more. Plus with 100mg you can do a wider range of mixes. Example you bought 24mg PG nic base and wanted to make 12mg 80vg/20pg. That would be impossible for you to make with 24mg PG nic base but possible with 100mg.

Just make sure you measure the nic right and don't rub it on yourself lol

 

[Road King]

OK, so I ordered the stuff I had noted above last night & also my nicotine in 100% VG. I probably should have ordered 100 mg, but I did 24, as it was a lot cheaper & since I'm just starting out, I want to make sure this is something I'm going to keep doing before I spend more than I have to. I have been saving all my 30 ml bottles, a few 125's & all my V3 15 ml bottles also, so I didn't get nuts ordering glassware.

I also ordered some basic flavorings- enough to make the 3-4 most interesting recipes of the dozen or so I've printed out so far. I'm sure I will need more down the road, but that may be WAY down the road, anyway.

Here's what I ordered for flavors:
Bavarian Cream (TFA)
Cake Batter (Capella)
Caramel (TFA)
Cherry (LA)
Cola (LA)
Double Chocolate (TFA)
Marshmallow (TFA)
Peanut Butter (TFA)
Sweet Cream (TFA)
Sweetener (TFA)
Vanilla Cupcake (TFA)

I'm anxious now for the stuff to arrive. I think this is going to be something I like doing. I will definitely have more questions once I get rolling, but I want to thank you all again for the great advice!

 

[Road King]

Well my package arrived today. That was some fast shipping from MFS. The only thing not in this photo are the gloves, but I did get some. The only thing I evidently forgot to order was a small syringe (1 ml), so I ran down to Walgreen's & they just gave me one. I pulled 20 ml of the nicotine to keep on hand in the house & put the glass bottle containing the rest in a tupperware dish & stuck it in the freezer. I assume the VG & PG are ok to keep at room temp? I washed/dried the 2 amber bottles & in about 15 minutes I will try my first recipe. I will post up a thread when I get it done. Thanks again everyone for taking a look.

 

[mhertz]

Yep, VG/PG is okay in room-temp and is listed as storage of max 30C usually in there MSDS sheets... If you have big portions or no AC in summer, then some have it in the fridge, and if byuing gallons then some redistribute in smaller bottles and freeze... In short, you're good at room-temp at max 30C in atleast 1-2 years, but place it in dark-cabinet and close bottles properly, as they suck moisture from air...

Anyway looking really good and if you start simple and not too advanced, then it's properly gonna be good and not needing to go down the sink i.e. a strawberry milk/icecream kinda style etc...

Many don't bother, but I always advocate and do, mix each flavor up in a small test sample and try by itself so that I know the flavor properly and so you later can see, hmm, that would fit perfectly in this mix etc. Just popping a bunch of new flavors in a recipe is fine, but I don't like it, because if something isn't spot-on, then you not always exactly know which flavor is the culprit or whatever needs adjusted. Also if you hate one of the flavors, then all mixes with that will probably be bad unless muted out... The easiest way to test the flavors standalone imho is to make some premixed VG/PG/nic, and then make very small tests of each flavor by just using drops...

Good luck!

 

[Road King]

Yep, VG/PG is okay in room-temp and is listed as storage of max 30C usually in there MSDS sheets... If you have big portions or no AC in summer, then some have it in the fridge, and if byuing gallons then some redistribute in smaller bottles and freeze... In short, you're good at room-temp at max 30C in atleast 1-2 years, but place it in dark-cabinet and close bottles properly, as they suck moisture from air...

Anyway looking really good and if you start simple and not too advanced, then it's properly gonna be good and not needing to go down the sink i.e. a strawberry milk/icecream kinda style etc...

Many don't bother, but I always advocate and do, mix each flavor up in a small test sample and try by itself so that I know the flavor properly and so you later can see, hmm, that would fit perfectly in this mix etc. Just popping a bunch of new flavors in a recipe is fine, but I don't like it, because if something isn't spot-on, then you not always exactly know which flavor is the culprit or whatever needs adjusted. Also if you hate one of the flavors, then all mixes with that will probably be bad unless muted out... The easiest way to test the flavors standalone imho is to make some premixed VG/PG/nic, and then make very small tests of each flavor by just using drops...

Good luck!

Thanks.
I wasn't for sure on how to store those- I appreciate the info. I made two recipes last night. One was a Twinkies one & it turned out real nice. The other was Cherry Cola & it was pretty good as well. I made a thread in the recipe subforum on the Twinkies one. I haven't got around to posting up the Cherry Cola yet. I know I probably should have made small (maybe 10 ml) batches just in case, but I made 30 ml of the Twinkies & wished I would have made 90. Later last night I made 90 of the Cherry Cola, which is probably going to be a coil killer, but still a treat.

I really enjoyed making flavors that not only were just vapeable (my hope), but down right tasty. It was very satisfying. I'm already putting another flavor order together. I have a lot to learn but am willing, so I'm looking forward to playing around with my own flavors rather than putting down $20 at a time for 30ml premium juice. I'm also glad to be around so many helpful folk. And no, I never did get a scale & am using syringes, but that's not to say I won't end up there eventually.

Thanks.

 

[dannyv45]

Sounds like your off to a good start just remember to write down your recipes (Base formulation, flavors used, percentages of flavors) so you can duplicate your work later.

 

[Road King]

Sounds like your off to a good start just remember to write down your recipes (Base formulation, flavors used, percentages of flavors) so you can duplicate your work later.

Thanks, man.
Yeah, I been figuring my batches, using the ejuicemeup calculator, then printing the card so I have everything. The back of the card is where I'll make my notes for initial test, one week test & any recommendations/modifications for next time.