DIY E-liquids Questions

[Geoffrey White]

I'm not sure if this is the correct forum, but apparently I'm unable to post in any other forum until I've posted in this one at least five times, so this is my first post, I guess.

If it needs to be moved to another forum, or tags need to be added, I more than welcome the administrators/moderators to do so, as I have no idea what I'm doing.

Anyway...

I'm new-ish to vaping in general, but am a complete and utter neophyte when it comes to DIY e-liquids, and so I apologize for my ignorance in advance.

From what I understand, glycerin is one of 3 possible main ingredients in e-liquids (the other 2 being propylene glycol, and/or polyethylene glycol). I'm also under the impression that there are 3 distinct glycerin derivatives - animal, vegetable, and/or synthetic.

Based on the small amount of research I've done, I've come to the conclusion that, for less throat irritation (and more vapour), glycerin is the best option. I've also concluded that the safest derivation for inhalation is synthetic glycerin (apparently pharmaceutical grade, and/or USP - specifically Dow Optim).

Before we continue, if any of my assumptions thus far are either incorrect, or debatable, I implore you to please educate me further regarding these subjects.

I would like to make my own e-liquids for personal use (to begin with), so I'll likely simply be using whatever glycerin I can find for a decent price (I live in Ottawa, Canada - if you have any suggestions of what and where to purchase).

My first real questions are actually theoretical (and are based on the concept of a nicotine and flavour free e-liquid that may eventually have nicotine and/or flavour added in the future):

1. Assuming I can acquire VG, if I want to use distilled water to dilute it, what would be the recommended minimum and maximum percentages of DW to VG to best prevent issues with most e-cigarettes?

2. Is it possible to get drunk vaping an e-liquid with a high percentage of alcohol?

(If the answer to the second question is, "Yes..."):
3. Assuming I can acquire VG, and pure grain alcohol (again, if anyone has any suggestions where to purchase), if I want to use PGA to dilute the VG, what would be the absolute maximum percentage of PGA to VG I could use without destroying my e-cigs?

I suppose the only important question is the first, but I am also very curious about the answers to the second (and possibly third).

[Drug references removed]

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't thinking about eventually accepting donations from friends for specialized e-liquids (possibly using Dow Optim as a main ingredient), but that is both very far off, and likely just a pipe dream.

As far as the present is concerned, I'm just tired with the high prices of, "premium e-liquids," and not really having any control of what it is I'm actually vaping.

 

[BiLLi0]

I believe that you will definitely not get drunk, unless you vape 100mL per day...

 

[GMayberry]

You can get Kosher pharmaceutical grade vegetable glycerin (VG) from Amazon for around $10 for a 900+ml bottle. Same goes for the propylene glycol (PG). As for the nicotine, browse around the forums here and you will see many opinions of what sites have the "better" nicotine. Personally I use Wizard Labs but some prefer others.

If you want to dilute with PGA (plain vodka is commonly used for this) that is fine, but honestly I haven't used that hardly ever. And I don't think you could ever get drunk from it.

As for the percentages, that is dependant on what equipment you are using. Clearos, KayFuns, drippers, etc. In tank systems, you probably want around a 60/40 (PG/VG) or a 50/50, but everyone's tastes are different. In drippers, go with higher VG, I usually stay around 20/80. I buy my nicotine VG based, and my flavors are PG based so I rarely need to thin much beyond adding the flavors.

VG produces more vapor, PG gives more of a "throat hit." VG has been known to mute flavors a bit, so you may want to up your flavor percentages if you go with higher VG.

This is a start. Once you get a few more posts, you can jump right into the DIY forum and ask away!

Welcome to ECF and happy vaping!!

 

[CastleRat]

Good advice GMayberry!

Your going to want a calculator for your mixes. There are a lot of them. I like this simple one:

eJuice Recipe Calculator

 

[woofpuppy]

I probably pay more for it, but I make it easy on myself and by my VG from OneStopDIYShop and RTSVapes. I think MtBakerVapor sells it also. Never diluted it. I'm just a hobbyist. Never occurred to me to dilute it. good luck in your DIY adventure!

 

[Geoffrey White]

GMayberry, I was hoping to buy locally (not online) if I could help it.

I was also planning on not using any nicotine or flavours to start with.

Additionally, I was wondering if a nearly pure VG e-liquid is possible (and, if so, whether I could use DW to dilute it for use in e-cigs, or if I'd need to use PGA instead).

I'd like to make an e-liquid that's compatible with as many e-cigs as possible, but I'm currently only using drippers anyway.

Thank you very much for all of the information thus far, and the welcome to the forums, as well!

And, thank you, CastleRat, for the calculator suggestion!

 

[Geoffrey White]

Also, BiLLi0 and woofpuppy: Thank you both for your input as well (apparently I skipped past your responses on first glance, sorry - I was up all night doing research, and so haven't slept very well the past 2 days).

 

[dugwood2]

The DIY section of this website has a lot of great detailed information on this.

 

[GMayberry]

GMayberry, I was hoping to buy locally (not online) if I could help it.

WalMart carries this. If you aren't close to a WalMart (not sure if anyone can say that anymore) any drug store should carry some other brand as well. VG is VG regardless of the label or marketed purpose.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Humco-Glycerin-USP-Skin-Protectant-6-oz/10417582

Straight VG will drip just fine. It will be a thick, yet smooth vape, possibly to thick to actually "enjoy." If you ever see the guys online blowing insane clouds, they are typically dripping straight VG to produce that much vapor. For an all day vape, you may want to thin it out. That brings us back to your DW and/or PGA... In that case, simply start small, 5% DW, try it. Too think? Up it to 10% DW and keep trying until it is good for you.

 

[dugwood2]

Okay, now I see you want 100% VG, then yes you will want to dilute or thin it out. VG is very thick. Distilled water is fine to a point and then it will cause problems mixing specially with some flavors. That is when the PGA comes in. I don't remember the max distilled water but I would be surprised if you couldn't find in this forum already posted.

 

[GMayberry]

The best way to start IMHO is buy a bottle of VG at whatever nicotine strength you prefer, a bottle of PG the same desired nic strength, along with a bottle/s of flavor concentrate/s. Start with a mix of 50/50 VG/PG. Add flavor concentrate/s to your liking (start around 10%) and no PGA, no distilled water. Try that and adjust from there.

Keep in mind, PGA and distilled water are for thinning out. You would only need to thin out if you wanted to use 70% VG or more. Some people have allergic reactions to PG. They use 100% VG. Most commercial "premium" e-liquids are 50% PG or higher. There is a lot of info on this site about mixing and where to buy.

I don't mean to bash your post, but there are several concerns.

~If you are buying PG and VG based nic at the strength you vape, I encourage you to buy a higher % nic and dilute it down to your desired level. You are BY FAR overspending.

~As for the 10% flavor to start, I believe that may be pretty high for alot of flavors. Some of mine begin around 2% and work up. That of course being for multiple flavors in one mix. (please note, the OP is interested thus far in UNflavored and no nic)

~And lastly "most premium e-liquids are 50% PG or higher" is IMO far from true. Most of the true premium liquids tend to come much higher VG than PG. 50/50 is typical on your "good priced" e-liquids, but not your premiums.

 

[Lurch]

First, welcome to ECF!

I DIY and make most of my juices at 30PG/70VG, for me that is a happy medium that works well in my tanks and tastes good.

That brings me to my next point, taste! Everyone's taste is different (remember, you are unique, just like everybody else!). What some may like may taste weak or too strong to you. That is, IMHO, a major plus for DIY, you can adjust based on your taste.

As for using Vodka, I have used up to .5% in my berry mixes to add a little "pop" to the flavors. I have never used distilled water, but have read others that use up to 10% in otherwise totally VG mixes.

Jump over to the DIY section and start reading the stickies. They provide a ton of great information!

Again, welcome and enjoy!

 

[dugwood2]

Thank you for the education. I will check my facts in the future.

 

[twizted]

GMayberry, I was hoping to buy locally (not online) if I could help it.

I was also planning on not using any nicotine or flavours to start with.

Additionally, I was wondering if a nearly pure VG e-liquid is possible (and, if so, whether I could use DW to dilute it for use in e-cigs, or if I'd need to use PGA instead).

I'd like to make an e-liquid that's compatible with as many e-cigs as possible, but I'm currently only using drippers anyway.

Thank you very much for all of the information thus far, and the welcome to the forums, as well!

And, thank you, CastleRat, for the calculator suggestion!

If I understand correctly, you basically want to DIY juice with only PG/VG (no nicotine/no flavor). The simple way is to get you a bottle of Propylene Glycol and a bottle of Vegetable Glycerin & mix 1ml of each in a bottle (this will be 2ml of 50/50 blend). Drop a few drops in your dripper and vape. If not enough vapor to suit you, add more VG, if too much vapor and not enough hit, add more PG. Keep track of your measurements & write everything down. Soon you will find the percentage you like. When your ready to start adding nicotine & flavor get you a e-liquid calculator like e-juice me up.

I know you stated you didn't want to buy online so I can't help you in that area but I can say that Wizardlabs has yet to disappoint me & they are pretty much a one stop shop for all your DIY needs.

Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk

 

[Geoffrey White]

GMayberry, thank you very much for your suggestions!
Unfortunately, the product you linked to apparently isn't available at Canadian Wal-Mart locations, and the only glycerin I could find at a local Wal-Mart didn't specify whether it was animal, or plant based.
I did go to a local Shoppers Drug Mart, and spoke with a pharmacist there who said the same is true of what they typically have in stock, but that he could order a vegetable based glycerin for me (which I am now waiting for). I believe the price is $9.99 + HST for a 500 ml bottle.

dugwood2, Lurch, and twizted: Thank you all for the suggestions, information, and warm welcome! I definitely appreciate it.

 

[Geoffrey White]

Also, GMayberry, my understanding of e-cigs is apparently more limited than I thought...

... but I'm currently only using drippers anyway.

I'm actually using tank based e-cigs. Mostly KangerTech's Mini Protank II, and Mini Protank 3, but occasionally also Joyetech's eRoll.

 

[GMayberry]

Also, GMayberry, my understanding of e-cigs is apparently more limited than I thought...



I'm actually using tank based e-cigs. Mostly KangerTech's Mini Protank II, and Mini Protank 3, but occasionally also Joyetech's eRoll.

Hey it happens! Learning the terminology is part of the learning curve. If you are using tanks, I would suggest against 100% VG. It will work in some, and will not work so well in others. If you want higher VG, a dripper may be the way to go!

Btw, that was your 5th post, so now you can jump into the DIY forum and join us over there!

DIY E-Liquid

 

[Nicktterrell]

The juice I'm using now is 75% PG 20% VG and 5% water, so I know you can add that much without any mixing problems, and it's actually improves the wicking quite a bit.

 

[Geoffrey White]

GMayberry, I actually don't know of anywhere in my area to buy drippers. Also, aren't they difficult to use?

Yes, I did notice it was my 5th post, and am very excited to join (or start) discussions in other forums!

Nickterrell, thank you for the information, but I'm more interested in higher amounts of VG.

If I didn't want to use PG, or PEG400 (please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that is the alternate option), but instead mostly VG... Is there a way I can safely do this with tanks by diluting with either DW, PGA, or both (or by using another easily accessible, relatively safe chemical)?

 

[GMayberry]

Dripping is actually the easiest as far as I am concerned. It is a learning curve for sure, but if I want to change flavors, or a wick gets old, 2 minutes and everything is fresh again. You can learn alot on here about wrapping coils. You can buy a good dripper clone online for around $20, and a roll of 100' of Kanthal wire runs around $7, and a bag of organic cotton balls from CVS is around $2.50. That wire and cotton will last you well over a year of wrapping and wicking, possibly several years. It is by far more cost effective than buying 5 packs of heads for tanks. Just my opinion, I am not one of those guys that pushes dripping on every newcomer on here. It is a personal preference, some really enjoy it, some will never venture into it. However, since you want really high VG, even 100% VG, I highly suggest you give it some thought.