I use the PEG400 also. Im sensitive to PG to. I have had no side effects from it.
DIY Ejuice Q's
- Thread starter NatashaTMT
- Start date
- th_trl_thread_readers 0
- Status
Do you have an opinion one way or the other concerning flavor compared to PG? Not only of the PEG400 but also how it carries flavor.
I've vaped with DW for quite some time. I didn't notice any issues with it. Honestly, I think VG contains some trace amounts of good old H20 in it already, although I may be totally wrong on that.
But, bottom line, I haven't found "inhaling" water into my lungs to be an issue, and I'd think much of it dissipates as you vape anyway. I've gotten FAR more water in my lungs while swimming, and still came out of it without pneumonia. Etc.
I have started mixing with PEG400 recently, and when I researched it I didn't find much to cause me major concern. I did some straight vaping with it just to make sure that I wasn't going to be
"sensitive" to it as well, which seemed to be the biggest risk..
Honestly though, it's your body, there is proven harm from vaping too high temps (well some documented concern, honestly. I'd think that most of the water has dissipated by the time it hits my lungs, as it's boiling point is lower than VG. I can attest that 10% DW definitely lowered my vape temp.
I'm not advising anyone to use PEG400 without doing their own research. It is, in fact, your body, and should anyone come to harm, well, I don't want to be "responsible" for it. I didn't find anything worrying *to me* however, that doesn't mean for a fact that I didn't miss something, etc. It seemed fairly similar in risk to PG, honestly that's what I can say I "found" but I most certainly would not advise anyone at all to use PEG400 without researching it on your own, seriously.
Anna
But, bottom line, I haven't found "inhaling" water into my lungs to be an issue, and I'd think much of it dissipates as you vape anyway. I've gotten FAR more water in my lungs while swimming, and still came out of it without pneumonia. Etc.
I have started mixing with PEG400 recently, and when I researched it I didn't find much to cause me major concern. I did some straight vaping with it just to make sure that I wasn't going to be
"sensitive" to it as well, which seemed to be the biggest risk..
Honestly though, it's your body, there is proven harm from vaping too high temps (well some documented concern, honestly. I'd think that most of the water has dissipated by the time it hits my lungs, as it's boiling point is lower than VG. I can attest that 10% DW definitely lowered my vape temp.
I'm not advising anyone to use PEG400 without doing their own research. It is, in fact, your body, and should anyone come to harm, well, I don't want to be "responsible" for it. I didn't find anything worrying *to me* however, that doesn't mean for a fact that I didn't miss something, etc. It seemed fairly similar in risk to PG, honestly that's what I can say I "found" but I most certainly would not advise anyone at all to use PEG400 without researching it on your own, seriously.
Anna
I use distilled water in all my mixes and most vg products have 1-3% water in them. Anyone who vapes is vaping some water content. It does not boil, create a warmer vape, or cause pneumonia. Many commercial juices also have some dw added also.
This is an area where everybody has an opinion but I believe the main difference in all of them comes down more to steep times than anything. I do think the top notes are sharper with the peg as it would be with pg. As far as the PEG goes its close in flavor with pg. It seems to be right between PG and VG to me.
I suppose if you had "enough" water vapor that might become an issue... but I have never heard of it. When was the last time you read about an infant being harmed from a vaporizer/humidifier? Those expose sensitive lungs to much higher water vapor content than our e-cigs are likely going to produce. And; for longer exposure times. I would think if your friend's concern was legit; we would see more occurrences.
As for saline solution; I use it once in a blue moon, more as a flavor enhancer than as a DW substitute. Salt has an extremely high boiling point (1,413 °C (2,575 °F)). And therefore, will not vaporize. That means more solids for coil/wick clogging. But, a small amount (0.25-1.0%) in certain fruit recipes, can help give it that extra "pop." I treat it like I treat sweeteners; I always add it last, and I only addit if needed.
If you are going to experiment with saline; make sure it is ONLY DW and sodium chloride. Most eye drops, contact lens solutions, and sinus sprays, have extra chemicals in them. I use something sold as "Wound Wash" that can be found at most local drug stores. Brand doesn't matter; just look at the ingredients. It should say something along the lines of: "USP Grade Water, USP Grade Sodium Chloride."
I have to respectfully disagree with you @Sugar_and_Spice. PG boils at 188.2 °C (370.8 °F), and VG boils at 290 °C (554 °F). While water boils at 99.98 °C (211.96 °F). The water should(?) begin to boil earliest. (temperatures taken from Wiki)
My experience using DW is extremely limited, and purely anecdotal; but I have found too much water, or water not thoroughly mixed, does provides an unpleasant (seemed "hotter") vape with lots of spitting for me. I quickly gave up.
Saying that; I respect the opinions of those who find using DW beneficial, and would suggest it is worthy of experimentation to any who may be curious. Just don't commit large quantities of e-liquid until you see if it works for you.
I suppose if you had "enough" water vapor that might become an issue... but I have never heard of it. When was the last time you read about an infant being harmed from a vaporizer/humidifier? Those expose sensitive lungs to much higher water vapor content than our e-cigs are likely going to produce. And; for longer exposure times. I would think if your friend's concern was legit; we would see more occurrences.
As for saline solution; I use it once in a blue moon, more as a flavor enhancer than as a DW substitute. Salt has an extremely high boiling point (1,413 °C (2,575 °F)). And therefore, will not vaporize. That means more solids for coil/wick clogging. But, a small amount (0.25-1.0%) in certain fruit recipes, can help give it that extra "pop." I treat it like I treat sweeteners; I always add it last, and I only addit if needed.
If you are going to experiment with saline; make sure it is ONLY DW and sodium chloride. Most eye drops, contact lens solutions, and sinus sprays, have extra chemicals in them. I use something sold as "Wound Wash" that can be found at most local drug stores. Brand doesn't matter; just look at the ingredients. It should say something along the lines of: "USP Grade Water, USP Grade Sodium Chloride."
I have to respectfully disagree with you @Sugar_and_Spice. PG boils at 188.2 °C (370.8 °F), and VG boils at 290 °C (554 °F). While water boils at 99.98 °C (211.96 °F). The water should(?) begin to boil earliest. (temperatures taken from Wiki)
My experience using DW is extremely limited, and purely anecdotal; but I have found too much water, or water not thoroughly mixed, does provides an unpleasant (seemed "hotter") vape with lots of spitting for me. I quickly gave up.
Saying that; I respect the opinions of those who find using DW beneficial, and would suggest it is worthy of experimentation to any who may be curious. Just don't commit large quantities of e-liquid until you see if it works for you.
Yeah, I guess I had that backwards......
So you have actually used water in place of pg? Which is what I believe the original poster was asking?
If so, please do tell.
And the spitting was from the additional water? In your mix of ?? So it does make the vape hotter? Which does make more sense than the way my dyslexic brain was seeing it.
eta
I was seeing the question not as dw as a thinner for vg but as water, flavor and nic only. Don't know where my head is tonight.....
pls disregard my post......
Last edited:
I didn’t feel like getting sick due to adding DW to our ejuice sounded right to me. After googling I didn’t feel any wiser concerning this topic. I knew I’d get reliable advice here. You’re right though, it wouldn’t make sense!
I’ve wondered if I could use a salt solution to make something like salted caramel brownies. Considering it’s hard on the coils I should probably just purchase salted caramel. Would it be any better on coils?
To me they are shorter than max VG. Not quite as good as 50/50 pg/vg but a lot better than max VG.
You could try. I didn't find much "saltiness" come from using the saline solution though. Salt (because of its high boiling point doesn't translate well to vaping. The closest thing I can think of to compare it to might be adding a touch of salt to a fresh piece of melon. The melon doesn't really become "salty" (unless you put a bunch on
), but it just brings out more of the flavor, it gains more depth. That is kind of how it has worked in the recipes I have tried it with.For something like the salted caramel; I would probably stick with the specific flavor concentrates. I have never explored that particular profile though, so I am not a good source of expertise.
And, as for coil crud, it (in general) is always a bit of a crapshoot. The only things I have kinda-sorta learned is that solids (salt, citric acid) tend to foul my coils more quickly. Sweeteners tend to foul. And flavor concentrates, the darker they are, the more apt they are likely to gunk. The amount used (percentage) seems to have a direct relationship, to how fast they gunk. But these are only very generalized observations. Others may have completely different experiences.
All this tells me is, it is one more good reason to buy new flavors in small quantities, until I know if I want to continue using them. Also, I certainly don't "banish" or avoid a concentrate, just because my coils gunk up more quickly. I find sometimes they are worth the hassle. I just may not use them as frequently. And I always try to use the minimum amount needed to get the effect I desire.
I would also point out, that much of my dislike for "gunkers," is because I am cheap and lazy!
I am too cheap to pay for factory coil heads and pre-wrapped coils. And, I do not particularly enjoy the act of wrapping my own... though my stinginess prefers that, to buying them.
So anything that helps delay the need of coil maintenance appeals to my baser instincts.
LOL, I’m somewhat the same way with coils. I don’t have much experience yet with different tanks and coils in general yet as I’ve only tried about a handful of different tanks so far. Though I have found your statements concerning what DOES gunk coils to be true for me as well. The way you described that “touch of salt” flavor a salt solution adds sounds perfect. I do want to try playing around a bit with salt. However, I think now I need to focus more on getting my footing down a bit more and feel more confident in my mixing before I add more to the equation. This will help me when I get to that point. I want to do it all RIGHT NOW, lol. But I know, most likely, thats a sure way to failure. I think I will experiment a bit with DW in smaller test batches. In commercial juices I became used to the common 70/30 VG/PG. I’ve been mixing mine at 60/40 to 65/35 because PG carries flavor better and I have issues in that area. I’ve discovered a couple things. 1) I’m not thrilled with the flavor of PG. 2) Some recipes benefit from a bit higher VG. And most recently I’ve discovered it’s highly possible PG sensitivity is to blame for a couple other issues I’ve had for quiet some time now. So I think maybe I’ll try a bit of DW first and then maybe the PEG400. Once again, thanks so much for great advice!You could try. I didn't find much "saltiness" come from using the saline solution though. Salt (because of its high boiling point doesn't translate well to vaping. The closest thing I can think of to compare it to might be adding a touch of salt to a fresh piece of melon. The melon doesn't really become "salty" (unless you put a bunch on
For something like the salted caramel; I would probably stick with the specific flavor concentrates. I have never explored that particular profile though, so I am not a good source of expertise.
And, as for coil crud, it (in general) is always a bit of a crapshoot. The only things I have kinda-sorta learned is that solids (salt, citric acid) tend to foul my coils more quickly. Sweeteners tend to foul. And flavor concentrates, the darker they are, the more apt they are likely to gunk. The amount used (percentage) seems to have a direct relationship, to how fast they gunk. But these are only very generalized observations. Others may have completely different experiences.
All this tells me is, it is one more good reason to buy new flavors in small quantities, until I know if I want to continue using them. Also, I certainly don't "banish" or avoid a concentrate, just because my coils gunk up more quickly. I find sometimes they are worth the hassle. I just may not use them as frequently. And I always try to use the minimum amount needed to get the effect I desire.
I would also point out, that much of my dislike for "gunkers," is because I am cheap and lazy!
They've been steeping 2 weeks, I normally steep longer but if all goes as planned, I will be tasting them today. Somewhere I read that PEG400 is as good as or better flavor carrier than PG, and most of my mixes have had high VG. So, it will be interesting to taste them and I will report back with the caveat "if I remember to do it on this thread" but I'll try.
Anna
Anna
One main thing I’m learning is more flavoring doesn’t mean more flavor. I’m still working on finding what works best for me because now that I have a new approach it’s sorta like starting over. Though I know my juices will be better for it. It took me long enough to get out of that mentality! lol
Unless I'm remembering wrong, Kurt mentioned this in the video of his 'aldehydes" presentation. About H20 lowering the boiling point of juice to like 140... I'll have to track down and rewatch, when I get home this evening.I suppose if you had "enough" water vapor that might become an issue... but I have never heard of it. When was the last time you read about an infant being harmed from a vaporizer/humidifier? Those expose sensitive lungs to much higher water vapor content than our e-cigs are likely going to produce. And; for longer exposure times. I would think if your friend's concern was legit; we would see more occurrences.
As for saline solution; I use it once in a blue moon, more as a flavor enhancer than as a DW substitute. Salt has an extremely high boiling point (1,413 °C (2,575 °F)). And therefore, will not vaporize. That means more solids for coil/wick clogging. But, a small amount (0.25-1.0%) in certain fruit recipes, can help give it that extra "pop." I treat it like I treat sweeteners; I always add it last, and I only addit if needed.
If you are going to experiment with saline; make sure it is ONLY DW and sodium chloride. Most eye drops, contact lens solutions, and sinus sprays, have extra chemicals in them. I use something sold as "Wound Wash" that can be found at most local drug stores. Brand doesn't matter; just look at the ingredients. It should say something along the lines of: "USP Grade Water, USP Grade Sodium Chloride."
I have to respectfully disagree with you @Sugar_and_Spice. PG boils at 188.2 °C (370.8 °F), and VG boils at 290 °C (554 °F). While water boils at 99.98 °C (211.96 °F). The water should(?) begin to boil earliest. (temperatures taken from Wiki)
My experience using DW is extremely limited, and purely anecdotal; but I have found too much water, or water not thoroughly mixed, does provides an unpleasant (seemed "hotter") vape with lots of spitting for me. I quickly gave up.
Saying that; I respect the opinions of those who find using DW beneficial, and would suggest it is worthy of experimentation to any who may be curious. Just don't commit large quantities of e-liquid until you see if it works for you.
I think we all learned that the hard way. Every flavor has a top. (the point where you have all the flavor you are going to get out of it) and anything past that starts to mute what you do have. Take TFA SB ripe for instance. For me it tops out around 8%. Past that I cant tell the difference. The real issue comes in when you blend it with another flavor that shares some of the same flavor molecules and it mutes anyway even thou your below the 8% or whatever it tops out for you. Just wait till you find one you cant taste. I cant taste flavora watermelon at all. I can put a drop on my finger and its yummy. I can smell it and it smells delicious. Vape it and nothing
I’ve recently learned about flavor muting after over flavoring and not considering the affect on one another. I’ve broken my nose a couple times causing problems smelling. But I’d rather have mild flavors than muted &/or only sweet juices. After trying a couple muted sweet flavors, that did it for me! I knew what I was doing definitely wasn’t working. The same mixes tasted promising before steep. I stopped mixing for a week, other than flavor testing. I used this time to research more and change my thinking before diving back in. I’m just glad I figured it out sooner rather than later. Thanks for sharing the fact that I’m not the only one! lol
- Status
