Diy juice question
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This is a difficult topic to answer. I will be glad to answer them, but give me a few minutes to gather some links for you.
I know some members are concerned about the ingredients in the flavorings, which ones are safe or safer, and which ones are known to be a concern.
Another member took the time to compile information for quick reference to these materials (and credit goes to RocketPuppy for doing this - thank you!):
The chemicals that are in some flavorings that are of concern are Diacetyl, Acetyl Propionyl, and Acetoin.
"There are more than 2,000 substances used in flavoring manufacturing. The FDA regulates flavorings to ensure they are safe when eaten. Many flavorings have been in longstanding use and are classified by the FDA as "Generally Recognized as Safe" (GRAS) to eat. Thus far, the FDA does not require testing for other routes of exposure, such as inhalation. Though with new regulations, this will change in time.
Some flavoring manufacturers are using alternative substances for diacetyl in formulating flavorings. These compounds are acetoin and acetyl propionyl. Like diacetyl, these are 'GRAS' substances that are approved for use in food. Their chemical structures are very similar to diacetyl and have been found to be equally as harmful for inhalation."
Companies are not required to report if their flavorings contain less than 1% of diacetyl or diacetyl substitutes (https://www.dir.ca.gov/title8/5197.html).
Two companies (FA and TFA) have shown that in using a flavoring at less than 0.5%, 1000s of ppbs have been found, yet NIOSH recommends the exposure limit (REL) for vapor inhalation up to 8-31 ppb.
CDC - Flavorings-Related Lung Disease: Exposures to Flavoring Chemicals - NIOSH Workplace Safety and Health Topic
https://www.osha.gov/dts/shib/shib10142010.html
http://www.perfumerflavorist.com/fla...aign=Most+Read
FA, or FlavourArt is heading a project aimed at reducing the risk of harm reduction for smokers and reduction of these chemicals in flavorings:
http://clearstream.flavourart.it/site/?p=366&lang=en
FA has an e-cigarette flavoring specific line:
http://flavourartexpress.biz/index.p...category_id=15
TFA/TPA, or The Flavor Apprentice/The Perfumers Apprentice (same company), provides a list of their flavoring ingredients:
http://shop.perfumersapprentice.com/specsheetlist.aspx?cas=513-86-0
http://shop.perfumersapprentice.com/specsheetlist.aspx?cas=600-14-6
This is a thread here where a member has compiled a list of TFA flavors that do not contain the ingredients known to be of risk - see post #1:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/554391-my-tfas-choice-list.html
There are 2 ingredients that flavor manufacturers have used as a substitute to diketones - Acetyl propionyl and acetoin. This is a statement made by TFA about these two ingredients in their line of flavorings (It also explains the differences in these 2 ingredients):
http://shop.perfumersapprentice.com/...p/custard.html
Additional information:
http://www.mdpi.com/1660-4601/10/12/7272
http://www.femaflavor.org/safety-assessment-and-regulatory-authority-use-flavors-focus-e-cigarettes
Recent study on e-liquids and the quantity of those known chemicals:
http://gfn.net.co/downloads/2014/pos...0- DA_AP.pdf
A different perspective questioning the validity of concern for Diacetyl (diketones and their derivatives) based on studies that only accounted for workers who had a smoking history (which most of us as vapers do):
Diacetyl and 2,3-pentanedione exposures ...... [Crit Rev Toxicol. 2014] - PubMed - NCBI
Another member took the time to compile information for quick reference to these materials (and credit goes to RocketPuppy for doing this - thank you!):
The chemicals that are in some flavorings that are of concern are Diacetyl, Acetyl Propionyl, and Acetoin.
"There are more than 2,000 substances used in flavoring manufacturing. The FDA regulates flavorings to ensure they are safe when eaten. Many flavorings have been in longstanding use and are classified by the FDA as "Generally Recognized as Safe" (GRAS) to eat. Thus far, the FDA does not require testing for other routes of exposure, such as inhalation. Though with new regulations, this will change in time.
Some flavoring manufacturers are using alternative substances for diacetyl in formulating flavorings. These compounds are acetoin and acetyl propionyl. Like diacetyl, these are 'GRAS' substances that are approved for use in food. Their chemical structures are very similar to diacetyl and have been found to be equally as harmful for inhalation."
Companies are not required to report if their flavorings contain less than 1% of diacetyl or diacetyl substitutes (https://www.dir.ca.gov/title8/5197.html).
Two companies (FA and TFA) have shown that in using a flavoring at less than 0.5%, 1000s of ppbs have been found, yet NIOSH recommends the exposure limit (REL) for vapor inhalation up to 8-31 ppb.
CDC - Flavorings-Related Lung Disease: Exposures to Flavoring Chemicals - NIOSH Workplace Safety and Health Topic
https://www.osha.gov/dts/shib/shib10142010.html
http://www.perfumerflavorist.com/fla...aign=Most+Read
FA, or FlavourArt is heading a project aimed at reducing the risk of harm reduction for smokers and reduction of these chemicals in flavorings:
http://clearstream.flavourart.it/site/?p=366&lang=en
FA has an e-cigarette flavoring specific line:
http://flavourartexpress.biz/index.p...category_id=15
TFA/TPA, or The Flavor Apprentice/The Perfumers Apprentice (same company), provides a list of their flavoring ingredients:
http://shop.perfumersapprentice.com/specsheetlist.aspx?cas=513-86-0
http://shop.perfumersapprentice.com/specsheetlist.aspx?cas=600-14-6
This is a thread here where a member has compiled a list of TFA flavors that do not contain the ingredients known to be of risk - see post #1:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/554391-my-tfas-choice-list.html
There are 2 ingredients that flavor manufacturers have used as a substitute to diketones - Acetyl propionyl and acetoin. This is a statement made by TFA about these two ingredients in their line of flavorings (It also explains the differences in these 2 ingredients):
http://shop.perfumersapprentice.com/...p/custard.html
Additional information:
http://www.mdpi.com/1660-4601/10/12/7272
http://www.femaflavor.org/safety-assessment-and-regulatory-authority-use-flavors-focus-e-cigarettes
Recent study on e-liquids and the quantity of those known chemicals:
http://gfn.net.co/downloads/2014/pos...0- DA_AP.pdf
A different perspective questioning the validity of concern for Diacetyl (diketones and their derivatives) based on studies that only accounted for workers who had a smoking history (which most of us as vapers do):
Diacetyl and 2,3-pentanedione exposures ...... [Crit Rev Toxicol. 2014] - PubMed - NCBI
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You're welcome. I know it's a lot to read through and you are just beginning. I don't want to scare you away from DIY or vaping, just wanting you to have the information.
Just a bit of additional advice, if buying LorAnn oil flavor make certain the flavors are pg/vg/water/alcohol based. Some of them are oil based and should be avoided. Here's a link to their site with the information explaining this: Learn about LorAnn's candy oils, flavoring oils, bakery emulsions, and vanilla extracts. | Lorann Oils
Flowerpots...thank you for posting. That is a good collection of links!
Wow flowerpots, that's a lot of work gathering up all that information. It takes a lot of effort. I'm sure a lot of folks will appreciate that as they view this thread over time.
Thank you
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Thank you
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That list would make a good sticky or blog. Great data representing a lot of work.
Thanks girl!!
Thanks girl!!
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Thank you for the post flowerpots! I too am just getting into DiY and love all the info here. If it weren't for these forums I would almost certainly be back on analogs.
Edit: Someone please sticky this!
Edit: Someone please sticky this!
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Ok I really hate to be the newbie here, but can someone in an idiot version tell me is doing DIY juice really worth it especially if you know what flavor you like and are a heavy vapor?
Depends on your motivation. DIY juice is about .10/ml on average including the bottle. So if it's a financial reason then it a big +. If it's not financial then it has to be fun. Most who succeed at DIY really enjoy it. I like cooking my own food and making my own juice. If i didn't enjoy it then I wouldn't do it.
For some it's a health reason. DIY folks know exactly where all their stuff comes from and what is in their juice. They also know exactly how clean everything is when it is mixed. Not saying that the vast majority of pre-mix isn't safe because it is. I do like knowing exactly what's in my juice and where my nic/pg/vg come from. I still order premix too but I'm mostly DIY.
Another reason is insurance against regulations. If a bad or worst case scenario plays out then the entire landscape changes. These days will forever be referred to as the "good ole days". I have a 6+ year supply of nic base broken down and properly stored in the deep freeze and I will add to that if things look bleak. I originally had no intention of going DIY but after 8 months of messing around with it I find savings, piece of mind, quality, and protection from the future to be worth it. However, it's definitely not for everybody. It can be tedious and frustrating at times when trying to perfect recipes that you love instead of like just enough to vape.
The only reason id be interested in doing it wpuld be for saving money on juice and having a nice supply of flavors I love
Both are valid reasons, and the "fun factor" is an extra bonus when you make a good one.
keep reading here on ECF ... everything you want to know is on this site.
good luck ... DIY is worth it on so many levels
You can start with a lower Nicotine base for safer handling, say 24, 36, or 48mg, instead of 100mg.
Ex-smokers have a higher tolerance for nicotine, like if spilled a drop or two on hands, no biggie, just wipe it off.
Not the 100mg though...
I buy the PG 120ml of 100mg from 120 mL U.K Sourced Nicotine (100 mg USP/EP) - Vapers Tek
Then buy a empty 250ml bottle, dump all the nic into it, then top off with all PG, or top off with VG to get a 50/50 mix.
End up with 250ml of 50mg base in your preferred PG/VG ratio, as it's safer to work with than 100mg.
You could then divide this up into smaller 30ml or 60ml bottles to store in the freezer if wanted.
BTW: Be sure to mix them well before dividing up, or using, as nicotine can be a stubborn one to blend in.
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Yes, what you said. I don't have 6 years worth of stuff (yet) - maybe two years.
I enjoy the whole process. I like making stuff. The fact that it costs so much less to make than to buy is just icing on the cake.
It's not for everybody, but it sounds like many people think it's going to be too hard to do and that they'll waste a lot of time and money because their juice will be bad - I found it pretty easy, and I do waste some, but more than make up for it when I find good flavors.
Rhe whole process scares me. Now that I've started to drip and got my first rda would love to have my own juice on hand. The money I could save. I mean rebuilding coils for less than 50cents for each gotten a love it.
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