DIY Noob questions

[Vap55]

Sorry for all the questions, but this forum has become my "bible" for vaping and I know of no other place I trust for advice more than the pros here.

1. My DIY liquids seem to have an "alcohol" vaporish taste to them. Even though nothing I use contains any alcohol, it has that alcohol vapor to it. What causes this? And how do I get rid of/avoid this?
2. I've read some mixes need to sit 1-2 days, some a week or more; how do I know which ones to leave for days and which for weeks? And when do I know they have steeped enough?
3. When I mix "according to the calculators" I get a fairly decent flavor, but after it sits awhile, the flavor isn't the same as when I first mixed it. Usually it's less desirable then original. Do I add more flavor originally, or after it's steeped a few days?
4. I've been told to "find a base you like" when mixing and add to that. If I like for example Butter Rum and Apple, what would I use as a base? Something compatible to both or different "bases"?
5. When/why do I add water? And what water do I use?
6. Grocery/Hobby store flavorings that only list PG and the flavor, are they "all" safe for vaping? Example: (Imitation) Butter flavor from McCormick, Durkee or Wilton (cake icing flavoring).

Thanks in advance!

 

[kellogg]

Check out the DIY forum and see if you can find the answers. You will need to get your post count up to 10 or 15 (can't remember which) to post there, though.

 

[Vap55]

Thanks, I thought this was a place to get answers.

 

[Springbird]

The DIY forum has tons of info in the stickies, and lots of nice folks. You will need 5 posts before you can post your question there though. At the top of the DIY forum there is a DIY calculator that you can download (thanks to Scubabatdan) this is what I use to figure out how much of what I need. The "base" is the PG/VG ratio that you use. This is a matter of taste. I use a 50/50 base. I let my mixes sit for 48 hours before I try them and 72 before I adjust them. It takes a while for all the little flavor molecules to diffuse through out the mixture. The flavor tends to increase over time. Adjusting too early can lead to over flavored juice. If you use a lot of VG in your base you need to add a little water or PGA because VG is very thick and doesn't wick well. On store bought flavorings watch out for sugar and gum in the mix as they don't vaporize and will (might) gum up your atomizer. Good sources for flavorings can be found in the "Guide to DIY Flavorings" at the top of the DIY subforum page. Hope this answers some of your questions. If you just chat with a few of the folks here you can get your post count up and then post in the DIY forum.

 

[bonniegirl]

In addition to springbirds excellent advice, I will add that too much flavor can make an alcohol or chemical taste. Use less and add after 24 hours. If you have been vaping for a very short while your tastebuds are still stifled. Best to find an inexpensive juice vendor and find what you like first...then move to replication then to innovation. jmho
See you in DIY
happy vaping
Bonnie

 

[kushka]

You can read the DIY threads before you post - it's good to do - but remember everyone's taste is different. For example as others have said - and it seems you have found from experience - some - not everyone notice a taste change when letting letting their e-liquid age. Some - not all - like the change and tell everyone to 'age' their e-liquid. I like my juice best when it is first made. If I let it sit and notice a change it seems always for the worst and I add a bit more flavors and nic to freshen it. It seems from your post you are like me. I have started making smaller and smaller amounts at a time so I can vape when fresh. If that is what you like don't believe you have to age your e-liquid just because others prefer the 'aged' liquid - we are all different.

You add water if you are using mostly vg as a base and the e-liquid is too thick.

I have never bought 'store' flavorings but buy from perfumers apprentice or lorann or 'One Stop DIY shop' - but if all they contain is pg and flavor - you should be safe - as long as it does not contain oil which can mess up atomizers. I have heard a lot of the brands you mentioned are not strong enough - but if you find them so stick with them

 

[Vap55]

Thank you all, you have been the voices of experience I expected. Without going into specifics you have answered my questions quite thoroughly.
And just so you know, I have spent weeks reading the DIY forums, the DIY liquids, tups and tricks, posts by PureVapes, and Dan with the excel spreadsheet (sorry, I'm terrible with names) and many others, and downloaded several calculators. I've read and reseached recipes, vendors, purchased supplies, and only work with 3ml at a time. Only the few questions I had that have stumped me and after reading until cross-eyed, I just couldn't find an answer. Rather than continue to torture myself with another week of reading and getting side-tracked; new websites, new orders, more money being spent; I chose to "ask the experts" and be done with it. I do commend everyone here for their loyaty and continued success. I'm just not much of a writer due to the fact I tend to babble.... Or could you tell?

Anyway, even if I don't succeed and DIY, at least I'm finally a success at ditching the analogs.
Smoked 2+ packs a day for over 42 years, died and revived 3 years ago.
Doctor recommended e-cig and I listened!
Vaping 75 days, analog free 68 days and counting and converting!

 

[bonniegirl]

Congrats on the 68 days and the converting.
Happy vaping and success with DIY

 

[Hoosier]

You're well on your DIY way.

You are not upset or discouraged with mixes that don't work, but resolved to find a way to make it work. That is an important trait. I always remind myself, when I'm pouring a batch out, I learned what doesn't work.

Keep trying with the batches that are working for you. Sometimes the oddest things can make it work or not work quite right. (I've got one recipe that only seems to work right if I put the components in a certain order and one that needs to be left open for an hour or so.)

Good luck!

 

[Vap55]

Springbird, Thank you for info. Your input is appreciated and well noted.

Bonniegirl, Thank you for the flavor input on the chemical taste, going to try another small batch today and keep the flavor lower to start. Also appreciate the encouragement.

Kushka, I think you might be onto something. I love the fresh flavor, but end up mixing it into something else after it sits awhile (a couple days to a week). I'm too conservative to throw it out so I just tell myself it's better than analogs and "you never threw "those" away just cuz they tasted nasty".

Hoosier, I don't discourage easily, at least not where money is concerned! I have previously tried adding nic and PG/VG to the flavor vs. flavor to the mix just in case that had anything to do with it. I thought I was being a little too persnickity doing that, so it's good to know I'm not the only one.

I do have to admit I have tossed a whopping 5ml down the drain from 2 failed experiments. One coffee/cream/coconut someone recommended and another cherry coke due to the overpowering cola flavor. There's bad, and then there's disgusting, and those two would have required too much work to get up to disgusting. I guess if it was easy enough for everyone to DIY and come up with great flavors, those that sell pre-mix would be out of business. My local e-go guy gave me some flavors, I didn't know they were concentrated, and I mean concentrated! Whoa, those were/are intense!

Great input, always appreciated!

 

[Shadzi]

Posting here in case the OP checks back again.

Grocery store flavorings: I would say no, do not use these. In my experiences with cake dec, they've either been super oily or really high on the alcohol content and I wouldn't want either of these anywhere near my carts. McCormick is particularly bad about this, imo, and Durkee is ----.

Wilton: It depends. Wilton makes a cake-formulated series of flavors and another candy-formulated. Do not use the candy flavors, they're oil based. The cake-based ones are hit and miss. I would honestly skip any Wilton flavoring in favor of the LorAnn.

LorAnn: These are better, but still, there are water-soluble and oil-soluble. Again, avoid the oil-soluble, my reading around has pretty much given me the impression that oil-based will ruin an atomizer in no time, and will probably do the same to the heating element in a cartomizer. Make sure you use the water-soluble. Good vendors will make a note if they're water or oil based; if you pick these up in a retail outlet, read the label. My advice is to not get them from places like Michael's or Hobby Lobby; they may be old and the flavoring components themselves are volatile. Get them from good cake supply shops if you don't want to order online.

The best ones to use seem to be Flavour Art and/or Perfumer's Apprentice. This seems to be what most e-liquid vendors seem to be using/selling along with LorAnn. These are strong, so err on the side of caution. If you intend to do a lot of blending, I'd invest in a drip tip or mod one from a carto depending on your model so you don't need to fill your cart just to discover you were way off with your proportions.

All flavors take time meld in to their base and develop; I've ended up over-flavoring icing using these and it's no different with PG/VG. If it seems just a hair underflavored, wait 24-36 hrs and test vape it again. That's when you want to make your corrections. And please, keep good notes. It's easier to see what you should do when you can refer back to what you did earlier.

Shadzi

 

[breaktru]

Perhaps you should try a small batch with NO PG and use VG instead. To me PG tastes like antifreeze and causes headaches. But that maybe because I have some kind of allergic reaction. Others swear by the PG and I'm sure you will hear both sides of the argument after this post.

 

[Vap55]

Thanks Shadzi! Again, more excellant info coming my way. I have noticed the oil from my "store bought pre-mixed" juices and my husband complained about the oily taste, so that's why I originally started the DIY after weeks of reading the posts here on ECF, and it was the conflicting info I was receiving from my reading that prompted my original post. You know, to hopefully get info from a handful knowledgeable, "did that, try this" kind of people. I value everyone's time and input and feel like I am more "armed and dangerous" today than ever before.

BTW- Wilton's imitation butter flavor is quite strong, I did try it; had to know and all you know. Kind of like smoking a stick of butter strong.... I can live without the other 2, don't even like them so much for cooking. Will be sticking with Flavour Art and/or Perfumer's Apprentice I think for a safer vaping experience.

brakthru, I do use "eJuice Me Up" for all my calculations, thank you for that. It's simple enough even an old dog like me can figure it out! I've heard PG for TH and VG for vapor, and found a nice blend of 50/50 keeps me the happiest. After all, it's the "smoking" I miss with the nasty analogs, and PG just doesn't cut it for me on the exhale. After all, there are 2 parts to smoking, inhale and exhale and without both, for me at least, something is missing.

 

[markfm]

In case it hasn't come up, take a look at: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/74109-guide-diy-flavoring.html
Nikhil goes through multiple flavorings, mentions which are okay.

 

[Shadzi]

In case it hasn't come up, take a look at: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/74109-guide-diy-flavoring.html
Nikhil goes through multiple flavorings, mentions which are okay.

+1 on this. Nikhil knows his stuff and is more than happy to share from what I've seen.

Shadzi

 

[Vap55]

Already been talking to him! Didn't want to keep bugging him with ?s so that's why I posted it here. Plus I know I can't be the only person with these ?s....

And for the record I reitterate that "I have spent weeks reading the DIY forums, the DIY liquids, tups and tricks, posts by PureVapes, and Dan with the excel spreadsheet (sorry, I'm terrible with names) and many others, and downloaded several calculators. I've read and reseached recipes, vendors, purchased supplies, and only work with 3ml at a time. Only the few questions I had that have stumped me and after reading until cross-eyed, I just couldn't find an answer."

 

[Shadzi]

Then yeah, that's what the forums are for. If you don't know it, someone else probably does, and a lot of us may just have a tendency to be on the down-low. Don't ever feel bad for asking questions. It's how we all learn. (Well, that and doing potentially dumb stuff like I do.)

Shadzi