DNA 40 Clone Discussion

[BlueridgeDog]

There has been a great deal of conversation in the original dna 40 thread about the new clone chip, and I would like to make a place for that discussion outside of that channel. The prior thread is:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...sion/612272-official-dna-40-introduction.html

In the past few days/weeks, this chip has appeared:

$30.55 $35.36 - DNA 40 40W Box Mod Chip with Temperature Control - Cigabuy

As well as these mods that purport to have that chip in them:

Vapor Shark rDNA 40 Style 510 Variable Voltage / Wattage APV Mod - Black, Aluminum, 1~9V, 1~40W - 3FVape
VAPOR FLASK DNA 40 STYLE 510 VARIABLE WATTAGE MOD - Black, ALUMINUM Alloy, 2 X 18650, NO USB CHARGING, Temperature Control - 3FVape
HANA MODZ V3 DNA 40 Pack Style 0.69" LCD 510 Variable Wattage VW Mod - Black, Aluminum, 1 x 18650, 1~40W - 3FVape

We should have a place to talk about this chip particularly as there are a ton of questions about its functionality and its applicability.

Personally I think that all chips will eventually offer functioning temperature control. I have seven Evolve chips and don't see that changing any time soon, but would love to have a discussion about the market moving in mass to TP.

 

[tchavei]

They're all going to have tp control sooner or later. Evolv won the battle as the first one to introduce temperature control but all companies will follow it.

What remains to be seen is a board that works flawlessly with TP mode and better 510 connectors to minimize creeping resistance in the circuit.

Although I have an Evolv dna 40, I'm not a fanboy. I'm curious to see the first reviews about the clone chips.

Regards
Tony

Sent from my phone through a keyboard (or something like that)

 

[BlueridgeDog]

I should have one soon, or eventually. I ordered the flask clone with TP.

 

[tehdarkaura]

I ordered a couple boards to play with from cigabuy, they haven't shipped yet though... so we will see.

I have a 3d printer and I want to make a couple dual 18650 parallel mods with a non-copper 510

I am kind of bummed that they didn't build this chip with a way to upgrade the firmware -- that is one thing I really like about the ipv3 and the sx 3x0 chips

 

[Crunchy2k]

I ordered a couple boards to play with from cigabuy, they haven't shipped yet though... so we will see.

I have a 3d printer and I want to make a couple dual 18650 parallel mods with a non-copper 510

I am kind of bummed that they didn't build this chip with a way to upgrade the firmware -- that is one thing I really like about the ipv3 and the sx 3x0 chips

I have a spare Evolv DNA40 board waiting for a well designed 3d printed case. Something like VaperDroid is making.

I got my Vapor Flask clone on Saturday. Here are my DNA40 clone First Impressions:

These impressions are from a Vapor Flask clone I recieved Saturday from 3Fvape. It boots up displaying 'KX-40D.' Nikkita says these are Kangxin manufactured flasks. The display and operation mimick the Evolv DNA-40 instructions and pictured display. The 510 connector is copper plated brass with an adjustable rh screw center pin. I am using LG HE2 batteries.

Kanthal Wire mode: With a kanthal kanger Protank coil at 1.9 ohm, it appears I am getting a pre-heat for the first second. My 2.1 and 2.4 ohm kanthal Kanger coiled Divide tanks elicit a 'Ohms too high' message, the message disappears back into the regular screen and they were still firing normaly during this time. I am begining to think the message just means the ohms are to high to use the pre-heat function. The Watt setting round-robins and stops at the end points requiring a second press to continue. It moves through the numbers at a decent pace.

TC mode: I am playing with a Kayfun V4 Tobeco clone. The the coil is made from two twisted strands of 30g nickel, twisting the nickel hardened it quite nicely, 0.13 ohms at 7 twists around a 5/32 drill, Ko Gen Do cotton. The ohms remain static after the initial check. Sometimes the Watts display will remain at the last level shown during firing instead of reverting to the set Wattage. I get very different vapes moving through the settings. The board has a very nice range. I was able to color the flavor when I went higher than 420degF with the cotton wick.

Final impression: There is a < one second delay before I hear the coil fire from any mode. This is better than my VTR. My VTR takes more than a second to heat up to where I like it. These boards are a tweaker's delight. Settings are held in non-volatile memory with the batteries removed. There are not different settings for wire mode and TC mode. Adjust in one and it changes the other. The display takes thirty seconds for the screen to turn off. I don't know how long it takes to go into sleep mode. I haven't set it down long enough yet.

 

[HolmanGT]

I ordered a couple boards to play with from cigabuy, they haven't shipped yet though... so we will see.

I have a 3d printer and I want to make a couple dual 18650 parallel mods with a non-copper 510

I am kind of bummed that they didn't build this chip with a way to upgrade the firmware -- that is one thing I really like about the ipv3 and the sx 3x0 chips

I have an opinion about the firmware not being upgradeable. Some chips have a programming fuse link. You program the chip and then command it to blow the link. Once that is done it is impossible for anyone to access the code and reverse engineer it.

In the first runs of new concepts this is often done but with time they will not blow the link and advertise that it can be upgraded. Just a marketing plow in an attempt to keep the first few chip runs secure.

 

[tehdarkaura]

yeah that could be... but really the "fuse link" is kind of a misnomer -- its just a bit that is set true or false and checked by the chip on boot. there are ways to actually blow a wire or two needed to program or read data from the chip (like the external clock signal MOSI/MISO pins for example.)
But apart from a very few circumstances (paranoid independent nerds that have justified the risk to themselves) this is rarely done -- and a company with enough motivation and the willingness to pay few hundred bucks for the service can have the chip decapped and the lock bit can be reprogramed. So really unless you are willing to jeopardize the integrity of all of the chips you produce (by grounding only the pins you want to blow the trace free from and then applying power to all the others) you are really only a few hundred bucks and a few weeks away from being reverse engineered by a willing competitor.

Hobby king has a 5600 1s/2p hardcase pack that is lots smaller overall than the two 18650s -- plus the C rating they give blows even the VTC5's out of the water -- and if it ever needs to replaced its slightly cheaper than 2xVTC4 18650s.

I'm thinking about getting one of those on order and building one of the mods to contain that battery.

link for the curious Turnigy nano-tech 5600mah 1S2P 65~130C Hardcase Lipo Pack (ROAR APPROVED) (US Warehouse)

 

[tchavei]

A friend I know from the UK had a locked chip from his competitor reverse engineered in less than a week but it cost him over $1000.

That was 7 years ago.

Regards
Tony

Sent from my phone through a keyboard (or something like that)

 

[tehdarkaura]

yeah if you have it done locally and rushed you will spend a lot on it -- if you are willing to wait a while it will be cheaper -- since the equipment needed has been around a while the vendors investment has gone down as have the prices if you are willing to wait a while.
Some chips also have vulnerabilities that mean they dont even need to be decapped -- if you are lucky enough to be targeting one of those you will have your output sooner and for less dough.

 

[tchavei]

Yeah, he didn't even use the code. He just wanted to know the algorithm to prevent hunting motion with attached devices... Long story. Anyway, the fun about it is when he perfected his product, the Chinese copied him in about two weeks. He wasn't too worried because each board was custom tailored to the specific sensor the board had so no two codes were equal. To achieve perfection, the Chinese would need to calibrate each board and feed the resulting values to the same board... The procedure took 6 hours and he only could process 80 boards at a time. The far East company never bothered doing that so his devices always performed 20% above the clones.

It kept his product in the world Wide top 3 for years even with 1:0.8 clones out there.

There a ways to screw the competition which reverse engineering won't solve.

Regards
Tony

Sent from my phone through a keyboard (or something like that)

 

[tehdarkaura]

hahaha -- righton -- sounds like an interesting product thanks for sharing man.

 

[MattB101]

I ordered a couple boards to play with from cigabuy, they haven't shipped yet though... so we will see.

I have a 3d printer and I want to make a couple dual 18650 parallel mods with a non-copper 510

I am kind of bummed that they didn't build this chip with a way to upgrade the firmware -- that is one thing I really like about the ipv3 and the sx 3x0 chips

YiHi is bringing out a SX350 version board with temp control. I'm hoping someone in the US will be carrying it soon. I like YiHi chip sets. Built my last dual parallel 18650 mod using the 60 Watt version of the SX350. Love it.

Sent with no malice and not a whole lot of forethought from my new Galaxy Tab 4. Thanks Santa!

 

[tchavei]

Wasn't that like in April or so?

Regards
Tony

Sent from my phone through a keyboard or something like that

 

[crxess]

Opening post should be corrected to read:

As well as these CLONE MODS
3FVape is obviously NOT VaporShark - just saying

 

[aldenf]

yeah that could be... but really the "fuse link" is kind of a misnomer -- its just a bit that is set true or false and checked by the chip on boot. there are ways to actually blow a wire or two needed to program or read data from the chip (like the external clock signal MOSI/MISO pins for example.)
But apart from a very few circumstances (paranoid independent nerds that have justified the risk to themselves) this is rarely done -- and a company with enough motivation and the willingness to pay few hundred bucks for the service can have the chip decapped and the lock bit can be reprogramed. So really unless you are willing to jeopardize the integrity of all of the chips you produce (by grounding only the pins you want to blow the trace free from and then applying power to all the others) you are really only a few hundred bucks and a few weeks away from being reverse engineered by a willing competitor.

Hobby king has a 5600 1s/2p hardcase pack that is lots smaller overall than the two 18650s -- plus the C rating they give blows even the VTC5's out of the water -- and if it ever needs to replaced its slightly cheaper than 2xVTC4 18650s.

I'm thinking about getting one of those on order and building one of the mods to contain that battery.

link for the curious Turnigy nano-tech 5600mah 1S2P 65~130C Hardcase Lipo Pack (ROAR APPROVED) (US Warehouse)

I'm assuming the size you mention is out of the hardcase. Anything one needs to know about dissembling?

 

[tehdarkaura]

I'm assuming the size you mention is out of the hardcase. Anything one needs to know about dissembling?

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/battery-mods/531417-highest-capacity-very-thin-battery-dna30-2.html#post12341891

Here is a link to some pics of the inside and measurements of the 5.0 version -- i would expect the measurements to be nearly identical. Just be careful while opening -- most of the time its glued around the case so its a one way process.

 

[BlueridgeDog]

Opening post should be corrected to read:

As well as these CLONE MODS
3FVape is obviously NOT VaporShark - just saying

That makes good sense, however the time to edit it has expired.

 

[BlueridgeDog]

One more to add:

temp control chip SX350J

YiHi SX350J will be out in March with temp control.

I did write them for MOQ and etc in the event that we may want to do a coop.

 

[tchavei]

Hmm that looks like it could fit better in a cloupor mini enclosure... And an idea starts forming in my mind....

Regards
Tony

Sent from my phone through a keyboard or something like that

 

[aldenf]

One more to add:

temp control chip SX350J

YiHi SX350J will be out in March with temp control.

I did write them for MOQ and etc in the event that we may want to do a coop.

Yeah. Saw that few days ago. Not nearly as easy to build with as the DNAs. And it'll probably be $100+ retail.