I use exclusively (30g) tempered nickel now and my coils don't deform nearly as much when wicking. I do have to examine them after wicking and make adjustments in the wraps a little to make sure they're not touching.
DNA 40, NR, Nickel Builds
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I think this is why so many start to have issues with refinement. And start blaming everything on refinement when I believe it's actually the compressed coil.
When I first started out using compressed or micro coils, the first hour maybe two it was fine, but after it rested for a while my coil would refine and that's when it all hit the fan. The coil would become completely unstable and I could never get it back. I blamed it all on refinement.
Now I believe it had nothing to do with refinement as much as it did my compressed coils were just so unstable. It was a huge 'short' mess. I stopped having issues with refinement once I stopped using compressed coils. And I never seem to have issues with hot legs or spots when creating a spaced coil. They're sort of hard to mess up. I don't know why I fought them so hard in the beginning.
You can't create a good compressed coil without heating or firing the coil. And if you've done that with nickel before, you know what it does to it, it becomes a squishy mess. I know because I tried many times.
That's why I highly recommend spaced coils. They just work
well said Rikk.
Interesting theory about refinement having issues with contact coils. I fought the idea of spaced coils a lot at first too, but curiosity won and I tried them very early. I never ran into many issues with refinement, and only found out it even existed a few weeks after owning the dna40.
Interesting theory about refinement having issues with contact coils. I fought the idea of spaced coils a lot at first too, but curiosity won and I tried them very early. I never ran into many issues with refinement, and only found out it even existed a few weeks after owning the dna40.
I know, I hear all this hate on refinement in a lot of threads and I've completely become reliant on it now. I've learned to use it as a tool. Once I started using spaced coils- refinement issue become a thing of the past for me, really. If I were having issues with refinement, and was using a compressed coil- that would be the first thing I change.
Now if it rears it's ugly head, which is seldom, I know I have an issue somewhere that needs to be fixed. And it's usually because my coil has become gunked up and needs to be changed or a 510 issue - meaning a good cleaning. I think its a valuable tool letting you know something's changed. I found nickel micro coils were to unstable and messed with refinement way too much.
And now, like you, I hardly know it's there. Spaced all the way.... And I think they're much easier to keep under temp! And you can still get a nice warm thick vape.....yum!
I completely agree.
btw, a quick update on the Variable Spacing build from last week. resistance has been stable and never changed from the original reading of 0.15. flavor is still great after 8 days, vapor production hasn't changed. I think I found my new favorite build
btw, a quick update on the Variable Spacing build from last week. resistance has been stable and never changed from the original reading of 0.15. flavor is still great after 8 days, vapor production hasn't changed. I think I found my new favorite build
tempered 28ga ni200 + rayon
I have no issues with refinement. I think your comments are right on target Rikk.
I wonder if my Coils are touching and that's why I'm not getting the heat from the vape I want and miss from kanthal.
I too am curious as to what type of build you have going on.
You should be able to get the same heat that you like and are used to with Kanthal.
So I say ripper apart and builder again.
Oh, and it may have been you who told me this little trick, I think. But I never seen it in use or tried it until my brother in law was over the other night and he saw me trying to count my wraps. He took a picture of my coil and zoomed in and OMG, I could totally see how many wraps I had and if they were touching.
So anyway... Share your build
The issue I have found with refinement isn't to do with coil stability. It's to do with ambient temperature drop overnight! lol
I work rotational shifts at a mill, and my great vaping coils aren't quite so great in the middle of the night.
Come morning it's back to normal again though, so I can't complain too much.
I work rotational shifts at a mill, and my great vaping coils aren't quite so great in the middle of the night.
Come morning it's back to normal again though, so I can't complain too much.
I completely agree.
btw, a quick update on the Variable Spacing build from last week. resistance has been stable and never changed from the original reading of 0.15. flavor is still great after 8 days, vapor production hasn't changed. I think I found my new favorite build
Just an update for you sunnata I finally managed to get one pre-wicked coil installed today. It's certainly not as pretty as this one but it's working well for now. Thanks so much for your help.
OOOHHH 4 "The Love of Vaping"
On kanthal I was usually a 1.2ohm to 1.6ohm range at 15w to 20w.I too am curious as to what type of build you have going on.
You should be able to get the same heat that you like and are used to with Kanthal.
So I say ripper apart and builder again.
Oh, and it may have been you who told me this little trick, I think. But I never seen it in use or tried it until my brother in law was over the other night and he saw me trying to count my wraps. He took a picture of my coil and zoomed in and OMG, I could totally see how many wraps I had and if they were touching.
So anyway... Share your build
My nickel builds have been in the 0.15ish range.. I've tried 450f to 550f at various wattage (20w to 40w) and honestly even at 550f I don't feel it's as hot as my kanthal builds. And I may be equating heat to flavor? But I'm starting to feel the flavor is different (less flavorful) on TC vs kanthal. Usually to me on kanthal builds the hotter / higher wattage increased the flavor, but only up to 20w... Over that it pretty much just burned.
I've been vaping for a couple years now, pretty much only build micro Coils (touching) so spaced Coils are somewhat new to me.
I will say this too, my son just got a sx mini m class and I feel the TC vape from the sx is hotter (considerably) more so than the dna40. But that could be the different builds. I should have tried my tank on his mod for a true side by side but once you vape on it and it's hot, you have to wait for it to cool before it'll properly sync to a new device.
Here's my attempt at a spaced coil. I have 32g nickel which I feel is a bit too thin to work with, so I've been twisting it. I'm thinking I might have two problems with this coil:
1. The wraps on either end look to be a little close, and may in fact be touching
2. I think it's a little light on cotton. I tried to get about a 6mm strip, pulled off the compacted strip on both sides, but it went through the coil easier than I expected.
Edit: Failing at posting pictures.
1. The wraps on either end look to be a little close, and may in fact be touching
2. I think it's a little light on cotton. I tried to get about a 6mm strip, pulled off the compacted strip on both sides, but it went through the coil easier than I expected.
Edit: Failing at posting pictures.
Here's my attempt at a spaced coil. I have 32g nickel which I feel is a bit too thin to work with, so I've been twisting it. I'm thinking I might have two problems with this coil:
1. The wraps on either end look to be a little close, and may in fact be touching
2. I think it's a little light on cotton. I tried to get about a 6mm strip, pulled off the compacted strip on both sides, but it went through the coil easier than I expected.
Edit: Failing at posting pictures.
Let me fix that for you
Regards
Tony
Sent from my keyboard through my phone or something like that.
Nice one! Glad to hear you made it work! One thing is certain, when I installed my coils unwicked/still on rod, they would look much prettier 99% of the time. Yet the more I do them "manually"(?), the easier it's getting. And they are becoming less messed up/deformed. I remember being impressed at how ugly one of the first attempts looked, completely mangled/deformed and still vaped great lol
One question that I keep wondering, do you have any tempered 28ga at hand to try this with? I don't think I ever tried with 30/32 like you.
Very interesting. Even tho this is all so subjective (our search for the perfect vape), I think I can clearly relate to what you describe as equating heat to flavor. I get honestly confused when you say the kanthal builds were ~1.6ohms at 20W. And that a .15 even at 40W and 550F doesn't feel as hot or hot enough? I 100% believe those are the results you got, I just have a hard time understanding what could explain it.
One thing that might help the tests between the dna and SX, what if you saved the coil reading on the dna40 before starting. As in, vape on the dna40 first. (sync build to dna as usual, take a few puffs). Let the tank cool down. Then start the comparison. Sync tank to SX. Vape it for a bit. When you go back to the dna, even tho the tank will be still warm, just press same coil and compare to the SX. (not sure how long the dna holds the reading, it might work)
I'll try that and report back. (dna40 vs sxm)
I'm going to assume my nickel Coils aren't right. Either they are contacting under the cotton and I can't see, or I'm having some other problem somewhere, because after having used and played with TC over the last few days, I'm sorry - I'm not impressed. Either I'm crazy, everybody else who loves TC is crazy, or my coils/atty are not up to par, I dunno... Let's go with the I'm crazy for now
I played with titanium wire, which was a little better, going by what I've read, you deduct about 100f from your target temp using Ti. So if you want 450f you set for about 350f...well I vaped on the Ti wire at about 390f'ish and it was a better experience, more in line with what I expect from a vape, the coil was wrapped on a machine screw threads about 3mm ID, forgot how many wraps but it was like 0.89 ohms or something.... 30g Ti wire grade 1. Pretty long coil, I didn't realize the resistance was going to be so much higher or I would have wrapped it smaller, but it was already made, it fit in my Taifun so I used it. Wicked it with KGD, and what I felt was too little cotton, just barely filled the coil, so I guess say like a 2.8mm-3mm strip of cotton with the "skin" peeled off... Didn't even disturb the coil wraps when I threaded it in. Felt like too little, but it worked.
So like I said, either I'm building TC Coils wrong and still building for kanthal. Or I'm crazy.
@Phone Guy yeah Ti wire does seem to be a little more forgiving. I've been taking ~20% off my nickel temp setting for using titanium and it works well. Using 24g I can stuff a heck of a lot more cotton in without the coil deforming too. That gauge is rock solid! lol
5 wraps @ 3mm gets me around 0.20 ohms on a Squape.
5 wraps @ 3mm gets me around 0.20 ohms on a Squape.
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