Very interesting as I've spoke with many that have thoroughly tested dna 40 devices and report back that it's in fact very unstable and inconsistent. Perhaps all TL available to us is just bad technology. I don't know but I've been extremely pleased with the SXmini M stability and consistency as has been the case with those that have reviewed or used it.
DNA40 vs SX350j
- Thread starter IanDVaypes
- Start date
- th_trl_thread_readers 0
- Status
Very interesting as I've spoke with many that have thoroughly tested dna 40 devices and report back that it's in fact very unstable and inconsistent. Perhaps all TL available to us is just bad technology. I don't know but I've been extremely pleased with the SXmini M stability and consistency as has been the case with those that have reviewed or used it.
Interesting.... do those you have spoke to say the J board is stable?
I prefer the SX Mini M in operation over my DNA40 devices, hands down. Evolv is a generation behind now. But I greatly dislike how ludicrously heavy it is for the size, plus I'm not a fan of the two-tone finish (even if it was more durable). Because of that weight, I still end up using my DNA devices more.
I really really really want to stuff a SX350J inside a Vapor Flask housing. That would be my ideal device. And yes, I know the Vapor Flask weighs about the same as an SX Mini M, but it has two 18650s and it's just more comfortable to hold and operate.
I really really really want to stuff a SX350J inside a Vapor Flask housing. That would be my ideal device. And yes, I know the Vapor Flask weighs about the same as an SX Mini M, but it has two 18650s and it's just more comfortable to hold and operate.
I guess it might be possible to stuff a J board into a Flask but may involve redesign (USB and up/down button locations, and display window orientation) and the J board is much larger (length, width, depth). Many folks like dual batteries and the form factor of the Flask....
There's room inside with some sled modification, buttons are a non-issue, USB could be de-soldered and wired to the VF port, but the biggest problem is that the current SX350J kit board has a fixed display, no flexible ribbon cable. There's (barely) enough room on the VF top plate to mill out the 0.69" display area to accept the larger 0.91" OLED, if there was some way to route the display up there.
I couldn't state if they all tested the J board or not. I can state mine has been very consistent and stable and I've seen no evidence that anyone has received an unstable SXmini M to date.
Here's a link to one of the reviewers I previously spoke of that does speak to the stability on a few occasions of the Sxmini M which houses the J board.
At 24:18 and again at 27:24
I would think the tech itself has limitations.. dna40 is using the resistance change in Nickel when it heats up to gauge the temperature change, moderating the power to manage the temperature. I would suspect the 350J board is doing the same too. only difference is how they modulate the power to manage the perceived heat of the coil.. according to Busardo's video, dna40 varies to power used to drive the coils whereas the 350J uses timed 'pulse', not cutting the power at all. that may explain the high battery drain?
I m no engineer, but to manage the resistance/temp changes in the tiny length of wire real time does seems like a huge challenge..
if build correctly, both would vape good ..
personally I do like the dna40s.. but maybe its only because they are the pioneer with regards to temperature management.
fwiw I think it would be interesting what Evolve's response will be to the 350J..
I m no engineer, but to manage the resistance/temp changes in the tiny length of wire real time does seems like a huge challenge..
if build correctly, both would vape good ..
personally I do like the dna40s.. but maybe its only because they are the pioneer with regards to temperature management.
fwiw I think it would be interesting what Evolve's response will be to the 350J..
Last edited:
And still making money hand over fist despite being "behind the pack". Their intention was to innovate the Vaping scene and did so with flying colors. With several mod makers proudly displaying their chips continually to this day speaks volumes of the impact they have set now as an industry standard.I would think the tech itself has limitations.. dna40 is using the resistance change in Nickel when it heats up to gauge the temperature change, moderating the power to manage the temperature. I would suspect the 350J board is doing the same too. only difference is how they modulate the power to manage the perceived heat of the coil.. according to Busardo's video, dna40 varies to power used to drive the coils whereas the 350J uses timed 'pulse', not cutting the power at all. that may explain the high battery drain?
I m no engineer, but to manage the resistance/temp changes in the tiny length of wire real time does seems like a huge challenge..
if build correctly, both would vape good ..
personally I do like the dna40s.. but maybe its only because they are the pioneer with regards to temperature management.
Comparing two different chips that ultimately perform the same function albeit in different ways. Can be a little on the non-sensical side as it comes down to he/who said, or data refuting claims whether legitimate or not. Let's not forget folks it all comes down the experience each and everyone has had. I currently don't own a SX yet but I will soon as its my next purchase for sure. I suspect that when I do it will be what strikes my fancy for the day. Both great companies that will both exceed my expectations wonderfully.
I haven't read anything in the way the DNA 40 board regulates temperature is unstable or inaccurate. Sadly, the issues people had that created this black eye for Evolve had nothing to to do with regulation. Screen glitches, yes- which I believe have been corrected in all new boards being released. Battery issues - something about the way the battery reports it's charge. There were some weak battery issues too, but that had something to do with the sled in the Flask? And a Celsius bug if you used Celsius - but I've heard nothing in regards to the way the DNA 40 regulates temperature being inaccurate or unstable. And all those other issues should be in the past now, or close to it.
What I have heard a lot about is the atty's we use and how they need to improve with nickel - unless you can just lock in a resistance and then it doesn't matter what happens after that right.
As I have said so many times throughout these threads. I rely on refinement. I use it as a tool and don't want it to go away, but I think it's a tool ahead of its time. But I think for all those who are new to nickel, being able to lock in their resistance might save them some of the headaches I had in the beginning when I started out using nickel. Mostly because a lot of the atty's we use can really mess up the base resistance. But lock it in and forget about it.
I personally think it's a detriment to lock in a base resistance that may change over time and sometimes changes a lot. Because now it's regulating at the improper resistance and temperature. We all know just a few points one way or the other can really change the temperature reading in nickel.
The main reason I use TP is not because I worry about my wick drying out but to keep my vapor below a certain temp. And the only way that is going to happen is if my resistance is accurate at all times.
I have a good solid atty and my resistance doesn't change. My current coil is reading exactly what it did 3 days ago when I got my initial reading. No locking - No refinement. No secret sauce. Just a lot of time, practice and cussing. But my hard work and trying a lot of different atty's and tools paid off for me. And I try to share my experiences with nickel and what has worked for me. But I get there's so many little things that can go wrong and it gets so frustrating if you can't just lock it in.
I hope this locking feature helps those who struggle for what ever reason until everything else catches up to temperature regulation/protection/control.
And honestly I think it's sad there seems to be some hate going on. And it does feel like hate in some of the threads I visit. This thread is different and I hope it stays that way. I'm lucky in the fact that I received a good board that worked the way it was supposed to. And I'm so sorry to all those who had to RMA so many dna boards. But hopefully that's a thing of the past and we can get back to the issue at hand and that's helping each other with whatever boards and atty's we have to make it the best experience we can.
I do think I have a soft spot for an American company, being an American myself. I certainly don't want to see them fail and I certainly don't think they're behind when they seem to be pushing the limits. But I'm not after bells and whistles. I'm after stability, ease of use and reliability. I'm hopeful they've learned from this. Just because they had such great success with their earlier boards doesn't mean they can take us for granted and push things out before they're ready.
But man when this works the way it's supposed to....its amazing! And I look forward to the next step in this evolution. And I hope some of this evolution comes from the atty's we use too.
What I have heard a lot about is the atty's we use and how they need to improve with nickel - unless you can just lock in a resistance and then it doesn't matter what happens after that right.
As I have said so many times throughout these threads. I rely on refinement. I use it as a tool and don't want it to go away, but I think it's a tool ahead of its time. But I think for all those who are new to nickel, being able to lock in their resistance might save them some of the headaches I had in the beginning when I started out using nickel. Mostly because a lot of the atty's we use can really mess up the base resistance. But lock it in and forget about it.
I personally think it's a detriment to lock in a base resistance that may change over time and sometimes changes a lot. Because now it's regulating at the improper resistance and temperature. We all know just a few points one way or the other can really change the temperature reading in nickel.
The main reason I use TP is not because I worry about my wick drying out but to keep my vapor below a certain temp. And the only way that is going to happen is if my resistance is accurate at all times.
I have a good solid atty and my resistance doesn't change. My current coil is reading exactly what it did 3 days ago when I got my initial reading. No locking - No refinement. No secret sauce. Just a lot of time, practice and cussing. But my hard work and trying a lot of different atty's and tools paid off for me. And I try to share my experiences with nickel and what has worked for me. But I get there's so many little things that can go wrong and it gets so frustrating if you can't just lock it in.
I hope this locking feature helps those who struggle for what ever reason until everything else catches up to temperature regulation/protection/control.
And honestly I think it's sad there seems to be some hate going on. And it does feel like hate in some of the threads I visit. This thread is different and I hope it stays that way. I'm lucky in the fact that I received a good board that worked the way it was supposed to. And I'm so sorry to all those who had to RMA so many dna boards. But hopefully that's a thing of the past and we can get back to the issue at hand and that's helping each other with whatever boards and atty's we have to make it the best experience we can.
I do think I have a soft spot for an American company, being an American myself. I certainly don't want to see them fail and I certainly don't think they're behind when they seem to be pushing the limits. But I'm not after bells and whistles. I'm after stability, ease of use and reliability. I'm hopeful they've learned from this. Just because they had such great success with their earlier boards doesn't mean they can take us for granted and push things out before they're ready.
But man when this works the way it's supposed to....its amazing! And I look forward to the next step in this evolution. And I hope some of this evolution comes from the atty's we use too.
Rikk..... very thoughtful post..... I highlight this from your post...
And honestly I think it's sad there seems to be some hate going on. And it does feel like hate in some of the threads I visit. This thread is different and I hope it stays that way. I'm lucky in the fact that I received a good board that worked the way it was supposed to. And I'm so sorry to all those who had to RMA so many dna boards. But hopefully that's a thing of the past and we can get back to the issue at hand and that's helping each other with whatever boards and atty's we have to make it the best experience we can.
With that highlighted I think there is a shared blame (myself included).... and hopefully the hate is history (really no place for it here in ECF)....I too hope this thread continues too....
THX for the thoughtful post...
And honestly I think it's sad there seems to be some hate going on. And it does feel like hate in some of the threads I visit. This thread is different and I hope it stays that way. I'm lucky in the fact that I received a good board that worked the way it was supposed to. And I'm so sorry to all those who had to RMA so many dna boards. But hopefully that's a thing of the past and we can get back to the issue at hand and that's helping each other with whatever boards and atty's we have to make it the best experience we can.
With that highlighted I think there is a shared blame (myself included).... and hopefully the hate is history (really no place for it here in ECF)....I too hope this thread continues too....
THX for the thoughtful post...
I agree with you Rikk, I think refinement when the conditions are met for it to be used correctly is beneficial for temp control. But I also think Evolve has a better product for adding the Atty Lock feature allowing those new to the DNA40 an easier way to get started and the ability to turn this feature on once they get through the initial learning curve of both how to use the device and figuring out which devices they own that will be able to maintain a steady connection. I think this really made the DNA40 a more versatile device, although I wish we didn't lose the ability to lock wattage as a result. But I agree with Evolve's decision that the Atty Lock feature was more important if only one feature could be used.
Regardless of whether it was user error and insufficient knowledge on how to setup a device correctly or if it was a device that wasn't able to maintain a good physical connection due to device design, refinement provided a barrier to entry for many and it's nice to see this has been addressed in a meaningful way by Evolve.
Regardless of whether it was user error and insufficient knowledge on how to setup a device correctly or if it was a device that wasn't able to maintain a good physical connection due to device design, refinement provided a barrier to entry for many and it's nice to see this has been addressed in a meaningful way by Evolve.
With this new technology came a realization also that the 510 connector design and atty design also deserved attention. A solid connection is necessary. Some industry leaders have already started addressing this. I saw a new 510 design in a new device being built soon where the 510 has a new type of adjuster that can be locked down for a solid and sealed connection. I also know some industry leaders also worked with Aspire on their just released nickel pre-made coil heads. Gotta love how fast technology is moving but it is not without growing pains...
NEW type 510 shown in this video....starting at about 3:56
NEW type 510 shown in this video....starting at about 3:56
Last edited:
Perhaps you haven't seen some of the reviews but here's a couple links that talk about some of the consistency and stability issues.
At about 38:52 - 40:25
At about 1:00:45 he talks about "temperature floating all over the place" with the DNA 40
I think you make a valid point here. While your going on 3 days without the need for refinement. I'm currently going on 4 weeks with my SXmini M without the need to adjust the temperature or resistance as it consistently reading correctly and providing the desired output. No refinement is necessary for me and I receive the same experience time after time after time regardless of what I build my coil at it's just consistent.
While I can understand some wanting refinement as a tool to aid them in detecting when their builds are inconsistent or bad, personally I wouldn't want a device to automagically make an assumption that my resistance had changed. If anything I would just want it to state "Check Atomizer" if something was haywire in my build. I agree with Jazzman adding the Lock feature is beneficial in it allows people like me that just want's a consistent vape every time. I don't go from one extreme temperature to another but I guess it could be beneficial for someone that frequents hot or cold environments.
I think refinement probably looked good on the drawing board to make it more user friendly. Just the implementation, real world testing and deployment was clearly not as well accepted as they had hoped for.
I'm sure as you have stated and I have also heard a hand full of others that if you were one of the lucky ones and received a correctly functioning board and were able to figure out your builds and refinement you are just as happy with refinement as anyone else that has functional temperature limiting device.
Personally I had no intention of even using the TL features of the SXmini M initially as all the videos and resources I reviewed indicated Ni200 was such a hassle I had given up on it prior to even using it. But now after 4 weeks I've barely used anything but TL. It's new approach to how we've been accustomed to using vaping gear. In the future we'll probably be using micro lasers to vaporize our ejuice and completely do away with coil building.
No, the only thing that's a major challenge is doing in such a small form-factor. Other than that, measuring resistance of a heating element (even a low-mass one) in real time and adjusting output power based on that resistance is something that's been done in industrial applications for several decades.
I hope Evolv will not "respond" per se. I hope they will introduce more innovation instead.
Rossum.... something different about ya...... OH....different avi.....cheers.... Always a new innovation just around the corner.....
Yeah, I did not like what the old avatar looked like at a scant 96x96 pixels, although popular demand in another thread may bring back a cropped version.
Well my earlier post said that I didn't own an SX350j chip device was incorrect as of a few hours ago I decided to take the plunge with vaporlips.com, so now I will have a custom built sx350j device in a month or so. Despite the rather large price tag I decided to do it because I wanted something unique as I'm not willing to perform the work myself. On top of that reason I already own 2 DNA40 devices so I wanted to purchase a device with the SX and not be the Mini all though it would of been cheaper if I did. All in all I'm pretty sure i'll enjoy all my devices with much love for all of them.
LOL.... I haven't "taken the plunge" for years and have a bunch of self-made mods.....don't need any more but did take the plunge today for a Hana Modz v4 for 135 bucks.... maybe it was something in the water or a full moon...LOL.... enjoyment is all that matters....
Well I meant that phrase for something more expensive and custom work to have being done. Still conversating via email about my device as I was thinking of attaching a vinyl decal to complete my "uniquness". Shortly after that they offered to just go ahead and engrave the image instead, but as long as they receive the engraving device in before work has been finished. I'm having faith that it will be so given the lead time around a month or so. So with that being said and everything is complete I think will warrant the extra $80 more then the Mini M class. Well with the custom deep blue/purple metallic "Wild Orchid" paint and hopefully the engraving of the cartoon "Joker" will be wicked indeed.
Well.. What I say.. What I meant.. Actually this tech, along with many unheard of, may well have been in existence for longer than we all know dun you think? Not just that, but this temp sensing tech we are using for the dna40 may well be in the lower end of
What's actually available.. Considering the cost..
And having the tech is one thing, implementing it to work in real life application is quite another.
Temp sensing/management is new in vaping.. Small form factor aside, there are still too many variables to give a absolute accurate operation.
Response from Evoke? I dun mean a statement or rebuke or anything like that.. I would like to think they are more than that. I do hope the next gen dna40 will be a much better chip, in UI and on performance.. Surpassing even the current dna40s..
- Status
Similar threads
