DNA40 vs SX350j

[dr g]

You can see it visually in the various firing videos around of clones. When it ramps up and down, you get a quick sequence of several wattages on a DNA40 but nothing on a clone. Also I think you can also see it in the temperature readings, it is slower and I'm noticing less precise on clones.

If I had one handy I'd do a high speed video of it. Hm.

 

[TKS]

You have the same choice you have always had. Learn to use TP or cry and whine about it. Refinement happens for a reason, learn why and set accordingly.

No idea what this refinement stuff is people keep referring to. Don't tell me to keep unscrewing my atty....

 

[dr g]

No idea what this refinement stuff is people keep referring to. Don't tell me to keep unscrewing my atty....

No, absolutely do not unscrew your atty.

When you put your atty on your device, it takes an initial reading based on the state of your atomizer at the time. However the way temperature is calibrated by the device is based on the temperature of the mod being the same as the coil. It is often not the same upon first connection so the device watches the coil for temperature change when you put it down. As it cools off, if it drops below what the initial reading was set at, the board knows the initial reading was off so it recalibrates to a more accurate reading. If this happens you need to raise your set temperature as the original set temperature was inaccurate.

 

[TKS]

Currently ran some stock NiOCC heads from kanger. So in actuality, these things are not meant for any sort of warm Vape at around VG boiling point temps with airflow anything beyond mouth to lung?

In truth the wattage and ohms that I get when I have this refinement happen is the actual true calibrated reading?

How does one enjoy this thing in that case without going to scorching cotton temps? I suppose I'll rebuild my Kayfun 4 and use rayon and see how the experience is.

Thank you for the information btw. Appreciate it.

 

[dr g]

The thing about "scorching cotton temps" is that the number varies with the specific atomizer and build. What the screen displays is the average wire temperature of the whole wire, so different coil designs may read higher or lower yet heat the actual juice and wick to the same degree.

Best thing to do is raise temp until you like it.

 

[TKS]

Only one issue.. I then in actuality begins to scorch and I get burnt hits really quick. It's resistance is now read as lower and now definitely the power is unleashed easier in the wire and now we have an overboard affect if you want a decent vape.

The whole big deal about this is that this isn't happening while Yu have the initial resistance. In there lays the whole problem with what everyone seems to suffer from.

 

[Vooper]

I'm sure people will laugh it off, but the reason this is so as far as I have seen is that the Evolv boards are doing a lot more than clone boards. Because Evolv boards push so much more data to the screen, they are running the screens closer to the limits where manufacturing tolerances in the screens can cause issues. This is also related to their design, they are cramming a lot of stuff onto the same sized pcb as the DNA20, so isolating signal paths isn't as easy.

lol.

 

[dr g]

Only one issue.. I then in actuality begins to scorch and I get burnt hits really quick. It's resistance is now read as lower and now definitely the power is unleashed easier in the wire and now we have an overboard affect if you want a decent vape.

The whole big deal about this is that this isn't happening while Yu have the initial resistance. In there lays the whole problem with what everyone seems to suffer from.

That actually does not happen, you might assume it does but it doesn't. It's not doing anything differently with the power, it just shifts it. That's why you get a weaker vape when the resistance refines. Raising the temperature shifts it back up while adjusting the temperature display to be correct.

Refinement is automatic temperature display calibration. If your vape is unstable it's not because of refinement but because your build is unstable. A stable build stays stable after refinement.

 

[Quantum Mech]

With the SX350j you don't have to worry about blaming the user

Lock your coil in at the start & just vape without having to tinker again because the mod has decided to change things

I used 2 STM with identical builds both coming in at 0.265 with Ti

Swapped them tanks over, back & fourth many times for a week & checked the resistance on each once a day

They just stayed at the original resistance & vaped flawlessly all week

Have rebuilt both again today the same & know they will be hassle free on the M Class for at least the next week

 

[Vlad1]

Only one issue.. I then in actuality begins to scorch and I get burnt hits really quick. It's resistance is now read as lower and now definitely the power is unleashed easier in the wire and now we have an overboard affect if you want a decent vape.

The whole big deal about this is that this isn't happening while Yu have the initial resistance. In there lays the whole problem with what everyone seems to suffer from.

Have you contacted your vendor to see if they can / will replace the board with a later revision that has resistance lock? If your Flask doesn't have the ability to lock the resistance your either stuck with having to manually adjust the temp every time refinement decides to change the resistance, (just beware and make a mental note before every vape to look at your settings or you may be in for a unpleasant surprise). Or you could pickup a board that has resistance lock and have it replaced, prices are dropping pretty heavily in the DNA products as it seems everyone is trying to offload them. Or you could just pickup a proven working temp limiting device like the SXmini M and be done with the whole ordeal. Or a host of other TL devices that are on the market that function much better than the DNA 40 based on reviews and user posts I've read.

I know some will or have probably stated it's user error or it's working as intended blah blah blah.. but I have those folks on ignore as they're not really here to help but mainly to do damage control. In their mind it's necessary to have to dink with the device constantly to get a good vape or to ignore the screen garble as it's not affecting the vapor production. But you don't have to deal with either of those to have a great consistent, accurate, hassle free vape. All you have to do is get a device like the SXmini m class.

 

[TKS]

Have you contacted your vendor to see if they can / will replace the board with a later revision that has resistance lock? If your Flask doesn't have the ability to lock the resistance your either stuck with having to manually adjust the temp every time refinement decides to change the resistance, (just beware and make a mental note before every vape to look at your settings or you may be in for a unpleasant surprise). Or you could pickup a board that has resistance lock and have it replaced, prices are dropping pretty heavily in the DNA products as it seems everyone is trying to offload them. Or you could just pickup a proven working temp limiting device like the SXmini M and be done with the whole ordeal. Or a host of other TL devices that are on the market that function much better than the DNA 40 based on reviews and user posts I've read.

I know some will or have probably stated it's user error or it's working as intended blah blah blah.. but I have those folks on ignore as they're not really here to help but mainly to do damage control. In their mind it's necessary to have to dink with the device constantly to get a good vape or to ignore the screen garble as it's not affecting the vapor production. But you don't have to deal with either of those to have a great consistent, accurate, hassle free vape. All you have to do is get a device like the SXmini m class.

It's acutally fine to know refinement reads the actual resistance and not having a locked resistance that's actually not performing true to spec temp regulation. The warm vape I was used to when first putting in a reading pre refinement I realize now is a false base reading. And it makes sense considering the vape should not be that warm if I am setting it to VG evaporation point (just enough to turn into a gas will not be enough to have a warm vape as it instantly cools down by the time it travels through to the mouth and falling right back under the temp of evaporation). To get a warm vape it makes sense to heat it few degrees higher just so it doesn't cool off so fast, and this.after refinement it will then be the true temperature readout and whatnot.

Atty lock and whatnot is a fools tool considering vaping at that resistance pre refinement is not that actual temp (however pleasurable it might feel) it will actually burn cotton even if you have it even 10-20 degrees under the flash point of cotton. But after refinement it never does any burning because it has the true temp readout performing as it should based on the actual resistance measurement. I think my board is working as it should now that I am convinced of the actual theory and thought behind it.

An sx350j and all other temp mods that you attain a baseline after you properly setup the build is actually a false reading considering it takes the initial reading and never falls below it (even if the ohm do actually fall lower after having the unit in a cooler place after you set up the initial build and screw it on the mod). The only attraction I have is the 350j is the multiple modes and features like power saving or like the sx mini M a unregulated direct mech mod like capability to fire direct from battery. But all the devises that house it are either ugly and not utalitarian and don't have housing for dual batteries. Onse that come close are the ultra high end c frames in some wood finishes that you can't buy without being on a list procedure, and even if you are lucky to get picked for a purchase, it still costs you a ton of money. I like the VaporFlask purely for its dimensions and design. Why others aren't copying a similar design is beyond me.

The only sx350j that I would buy if I had to go the single battery route is the Athena. Good design and finish without the whole wood craze thing going on. If they could make a dual battery version I would buy it in a heartbeat.

 

[Quantum Mech]

Atty lock and whatnot is a fools tool considering vaping at that resistance pre refinement is not that actual temp (however pleasurable it might feel) it will actually burn cotton even if you have it even 10-20 degrees under the flash point of cotton.

To the contrary, Atty Lock makes it fool proof

The temperature read out on any device is guesstimated

The boards can not account for the size wire you use, number of wraps, twisted, dual ect ect

Build any coil you desire & lock it in, then do a dry cotton burn test which gives you the ceiling for TP on that build

Set TP below your 'Proven' cotton burn test, juice up & forget about it

It could not be simpler or more reliable

Much better than relying on the device & the user guessing what setting will burn the cotton

Its Fool Proof

 

[TKS]

Sorry but that reply did nothing to prove or even logically understand why atty lock would be a higher accuracy.

I told you if you lock the resistance, you are not I takingninto account the true state of the wire and its temp based on ambient temp if it falls under that resistance you lock it into.

 

[Quantum Mech]

When you look at the fact the device is just looking at a resistance value & can not gauge the build or thickness of wire you use

There is no better way of ensuring you can run at the maximum temp below what that build will burn cotton

If you starting resistance falls or rises from standing & settling with ambient

That build is still locked in & will still burn cotton at the same 'displayed' temp

The devices are guessing, the user can prove it

 

[Vooper]

Sorry but that reply did nothing to prove or even logically understand why atty lock would be a higher accuracy.

I told you if you lock the resistance, you are not I takingninto account the true state of the wire and its temp based on ambient temp if it falls under that resistance you lock it into.

Realistically if it's really an issue you can just lock resistance before you vape.

That's if you live in some weird location where ambient temp changes so much that it's going to make a big enough difference that is.

 

[retird]

Easy way to show the benefits of refinement.... place your device (no atty attached) in the fridge for 30 minutes. Place atty there also. Remove from fridge and immediately attach atty and lock in resistance.....(note ohm's resistance) and vape...... let set at room temperature for 30 minutes....(note ohm's resistance) and vape again....

 

[Quantum Mech]

I can see how it works & the benefits of refinement

Its just regardless of the locked atty resistance/temperature

That device with that atty attached will always [unless connection becomes poor] burn cotton at the same read resistance/temperature

Your just proving the point of burning with the dry cotton test, setting below that & ensuring you can vape at the limit prior to burning

There is no guess work, it just works

This way you can use other TP wire too & quickly find the settings to use

It works fine with Ti .... all except on one device that is set up differently & is designed specifically for the use of Ni200 only

 

[tchavei]

I recognize the advantages of refinement but there a certain rare occasions it works against you:

Imagine you have a bottom air flow mod. The build is rock solid. You vape on it the whole day. It always shows 0.21
At the end of the day, while the mod is resting, some condensation trapped between the atty and 510 connector makes the board think the resistance is suddently 0.25 and refines to that. Problem is that this increase in resistance is only apparent. Fire the mod and the current will basically evaporate any residue and make a solid connection again.... Problem is that now the resistance is at 0.21 but the chip thinks it should be 0.25 so now, instead of throttling at what should be 420f, it drives the coil to above 500f and you get a very hot vape.

This could be eliminated by either atty lock or wiping down the atomizer and connector once a day but it happens.


Regards
Tony

Sent from my keyboard through my phone or something like that.

 

[Yozhik]

Easy way to show the benefits of refinement.... place your device (no atty attached) in the fridge for 30 minutes. Place atty there also. Remove from fridge and immediately attach atty and lock in resistance.....(note ohm's resistance) and vape...... let set at room temperature for 30 minutes....(note ohm's resistance) and vape again....

Or alternatively, lock your resistance on the SXM while at room temperature. Throw that and your DNA40 device in the fridge, come back after an hour and then vape on them while cold.

Both approaches have weaknesses that can be exploited by a user to operate the mod in an undesirable way, but only with the refinement approach has there been a lot of complaints. The problem with refinement is that it only changes the room temperature resistance, which means the vape can end up hotter than when the user first set it up they way he or she liked it. Meanwhile, if the resistance is locked, the vaping experience remains consistent.

Put another way, the refinement method, under certain assumptions, might give more accurate temperature estimation, but it lacks stability from the user perspective and also is substantially undermined when those assumptions are not true. Locking the resistance under the wrong conditions can lead to less accurate temperature estimation, but a knowledgable user can easily avoid such conditions. More importantly, even if room temperature resistance is slightly off, the lock resistance method remains consistently stable from the user perspective and thus will not affect user satisfaction.

 

[dr g]

Sorry but that reply did nothing to prove or even logically understand why atty lock would be a higher accuracy.

I told you if you lock the resistance, you are not I takingninto account the true state of the wire and its temp based on ambient temp if it falls under that resistance you lock it into.

You can see it when you try to make sense of the temperature figures bandied around in SXJ discussions. They are all over the place, and that's because one person's calibration is totally different from another one ... and one calibration is totally different from the next.

Refinement provides an consistent baseline that allows temperature to be accurate across situations, which is why we have been able to discuss temperatures with the DNA40 since the start.