Do direct lung inhales mean more or less nicotine absorption??

[KurrptSenate]

I forgot where but there is an extensive article about how since the vapor droplets are so big they do NOT absorb as easily into the lungs as cig smoke. And so they postulate that vapor nic is more easily absorbed into the mouth and nose than lungs.

I've also read something to that effect as it doesn't penetrate as deeply as traditional combusted smoke

but yes, it would support my previous statement

 

[somdcomputerguy]

..after 50 years of smoking it seemed like a good idea to reduce the amount of anything I put into them.

I only smoked tobacco cigs for about 30 years, but I'm sure my lungs are much happier now that I've quit. I also don't want to put anything into my lungs except the air that I breathe. I live outside a small town, but there are cars and trucks going by, unless it's past 8 or 9 o'clock at night.. , so I'm sure the air is not as clean as I'd like it to be. That's precisely why I refuse to do lung hits.

 

[jj6404]

I've also read something to that effect as it doesn't penetrate as deeply as traditional combusted smoke

but yes, it would support my previous statement

Which statement was that?

 

[rolygate]

....................
I mouth to lung now but want to get into direct lung inhaling but I would really like to know: is the nicotine absorption greater or lesser with this vaping style?

To receive the same amount of nicotine in a session of mouth to lung vaping, should you take more or less direct lung inhales?

There are 2 answers to this, depending on the hardware.

1. If the hardware is (a) a mini ecig or (b) an RDA, there is a huge difference.
With minis a D2L often doesn't work as the airflow is so tiny that nothing much goes through. The best way to use them is very long M2L pulls. Several clinical trials couldn't measure any nicotine at all in some people using minis like cigarettes (and probably with many using D2L pulls).
In contrast a good RDA can deliver a monster amount of nic, using a D2L repeater inhale. Many people go right down to 3mg nic when cloud chasing with an RBA, when they would use 18mg or even higher in other heads.
(I vape 36mg normally, have done for 5 or 6 years, but it's a fraction of that in an RBA.)

2. If the hardware used is a regular non-rebuildable type such as a clearo, the nicotine delivery is not as efficient as an RBA and the volume inhaled tends to be lower. It's difficult to do full lung inhales with this gear as it takes so long due to the restricted airflow. As a result there isn't much difference between the effect of M2L or D2L (mouth to lung or direct to lung) @ 18mg strength or whatever. Whichever way that you get the most vapor volume will deliver the most nic, and there won't be a massive difference between trying to maximise it with long M2Ls or big D2Ls.


--------------------
odd stuff

M2L = mouth to lung - pull the vapor into the mouth first by sucking with the cheeks, wait, then inhale the vapor in the mouth down into the lungs deeply (some prefer shallow)
D2L = direct to lung - pull the vapor straight into the lungs by using the diaphragm/chest

By the way, people smoke cigarettes both ways - a straw poll here gave about half for each method.

It used to be the case, with older gear, that it was said the aerosol particle size in vapor was too large to travel as deep into the lungs as cigarette smoke, so less nicotine was delivered to the lungs. But as the gear changed, this distinction has probably disappeared. An RBA can certainly deliver as much nicotine as the strongest cigarette (if not more) and just as fast.

No one has got into this yet, but I have a strong feeling that the mouth/nose area is good at absorbing nicotine; the upper respiratory tract (windpipe, pipe fork to the 2 lungs, upper lungs, shallow inhale area) is poor at absorbing nicotine; and the 'deep' lungs (main lung area, inhaling deep into the far recesses) is good at absorbing nicotine. So methods that work the 3 areas will have a different nic absorption profile.

 

[jj6404]

There are 2 answers to this, depending on the hardware.

1. If the hardware is (a) a mini ecig or (b) an RDA, there is a huge difference.
With minis a D2L often doesn't work as the airflow is so tiny that nothing much goes through. The best way to use them is very long M2L pulls. Several clinical trials couldn't measure any nicotine at all in some people using minis like cigarettes (and probably with many using D2L pulls).
In contrast a good RDA can deliver a monster amount of nic, using a D2L repeater inhale. Many people go right down to 3mg nic when cloud chasing with an RBA, when they would use 18mg or even higher in other heads.
(I vape 36mg normally, have done for 5 or 6 years, but it's a fraction of that in an RBA.)

2. If the hardware used is a regular non-rebuildable type such as a clearo, the nicotine delivery is not as efficient as an RBA and the volume inhaled tends to be lower. It's difficult to do full lung inhales with this gear as it takes so long due to the restricted airflow. As a result there isn't much difference between the effect of M2L or D2L (mouth to lung or direct to lung) @ 18mg strength or whatever. Whichever way that you get the most vapor volume will deliver the most nic, and there won't be a massive difference between trying to maximise it with long M2Ls or big D2Ls.


--------------------
odd stuff

M2L = mouth to lung - pull the vapor into the mouth first by sucking with the cheeks, wait, then inhale the vapor in the mouth down into the lungs deeply (some prefer shallow)
D2L = direct to lung - pull the vapor straight into the lungs by using the diaphragm/chest

By the way, people smoke cigarettes both ways - a straw poll here gave about half for each method.

It used to be the case, with older gear, that it was said the aerosol particle size in vapor was too large to travel as deep into the lungs as cigarette smoke, so less nicotine was delivered to the lungs. But as the gear changed, this distinction has probably disappeared. An RBA can certainly deliver as much nicotine as the strongest cigarette (if not more) and just as fast.

No one has got into this yet, but I have a strong feeling that the mouth/nose area is good at absorbing nicotine; the upper respiratory tract (windpipe, pipe fork to the 2 lungs, upper lungs, shallow inhale area) is poor at absorbing nicotine; and the 'deep' lungs (main lung area, inhaling deep into the far recesses) is good at absorbing nicotine. So methods that work the 3 areas will have a different nic absorption profile.

Well just to be as specific as possible, the gear in question here is a kanger subtank mini. I've been doing m2l with 12mg and more recently with 9mg nic in a nautilus mini, but my subtank just came today in the mail and I'm planning on trying the 1.2ohm coil first with 6mg juice

 

[jj6404]

Alright! Well, just finished my first 10 or so hits on my new subtank mini with the 1.2 ohm head with 6mg and it hit me pretty hard. What am I gonna do?? I switched to 3mg now but what will I do when I use the 0.5 head?? Won't that make even more vapor and more nic?!

 

[Croak]

I forgot where but there is an extensive article about how since the vapor droplets are so big they do NOT absorb as easily into the lungs as cig smoke. And so they postulate that vapor nic is more easily absorbed into the mouth and nose than lungs.

That theory is old and partially deprecated now, since it dates back to like 2011 and the vaping technology of the time. If you're still using cig-alikes, high resistance, tight draw clearos and low power batteries, there's still some truth to it.

But using a modern RBA, RTA, or "sub-ohm style" clearo and a high output mod, it doesn't hold as true; there's a lot more juice being vaporized in a given time period, and a lot more airflow crossing the coil, so a much larger volume of denser vapor can be easily inhaled into the lungs.

 

[rolygate]

Yep. So you just keep cutting it down. Not a problem.

People vary about 10x in tolerance, you just have to find your level. Looks like it will be cheap to DIY for you, anyway. That's good.

 

[jj6404]

Yep. So you just keep cutting it down. Not a problem.

People vary about 10x in tolerance, you just have to find your level. Looks like it will be cheap to DIY for you, anyway. That's good.

So if using 3mg with a 1.2 ohm build is just right, if I use a 0.5 ohm build I should cut my nic to 1.5??

 

[rolygate]

Ooh, it's a bit difficult to make 'rules' like that - just suck it and see.

Always keep some pure VG handy, with 10% distilled water mixed in, then you can easily cut any strength down. If you have to, just drip it straight in the atty on top of the mix that's too strong. Best to cut it in the mixer bottle but you can do it in the atty if you have to.

 

[jj6404]

Ooh, it's a bit difficult to make 'rules' like that - just suck it and see.

Always keep some pure VG handy, with 10% distilled water mixed in, then you can easily cut any strength down. If you have to, just drip it straight in the atty on top of the mix that's too strong. Best to cut it in the mixer bottle but you can do it in the atty if you have to.

Won't pure vg cut the flavor too?

 

[rolygate]

Sure. But if the alternative is nic twice as strong as you can handle, which can you live with?

There are also ways round low flavour. For example get some menthol and add a little of that. It can maybe get you through till your next batch of e-liquid arrives.

Maybe while you're experimenting with different setups, what you need is some low-nic refill and 60mg unflavoured base. Then you can add nic to any mix that needs to be jacked up to suit a low-output head. Along with some VG/DW mix and extra flavour shots, that would sort you out.

 

[DaveP]

I forgot where but there is an extensive article about how since the vapor droplets are so big they do NOT absorb as easily into the lungs as cig smoke. And so they postulate that vapor nic is more easily absorbed into the mouth and nose than lungs.

That used to be more true when atomizers weren't so danged efficient. Early on, I used to marvel at how I could exhale and the vapor would disappear into the air in a second or two. That was great for stealth vaping in public. Nowadays, the atomizers are getting much more efficient and the smaller particle size makes the vapor hang in the air like tobacco smoke. If you blow a smoke ring the effect is exactly like a real cigarette smoke ring where the ring hangs in the air and little wisps of vapor move around and persist for 30 seconds or more until the ring finally dissipates.

With the old Protank that wasn't so true. My Kayfun OTOH, produces micro-atomized vapor that is so efficient that I had to cut my nic level in half right off the bat. I was at 24mg for several years. Once I started with newer and more efficient atomizers I tapered down to 6mg juice with no withdrawal issues.

You'd think that larger particle sizes would persist longer. It's apparently the reverse. Maybe smaller droplets cling together and take longer to evaporate and blend into the air.