DO or CAN Ego/Twist/Spinners/Whatever have this voltage problem?

[GoodNews!]

(Posting this because this is now my thread and I declare no fighting, no vendor employees trying to bumfuzzle and bambooze me, stick to the information, stick to the guns!)

So one topic that I feel like Phil has brung up some interesting information on is the effect that the type of current regulation has from device to device, the specific filters and averages and wavelengths and all those things, that electricity is outputted from our batteries.

It is a widely talked about topic how there seemed to be a phenomenon in the Zmax models where some of these models would, in all essence, actually give an atty the characteristics of being powered an entire volt higher than what the user intends, causing anywhere from burnt atties to simply a harsher vape. I've read articles, watched the videos, and wether this whole theory is true or not, I believe the information is there and is worth a consideration.

However, my question, flat out and simple, is if Ego, Twist, Spinner, or any other type of stick battery has this type of regulation or something alike, or could through general damage to the battery (drops, shorted atties, ect ect.) Someone once replied to me that these batteries do not have anything like that, but in my head, I find that answer to be something I'd simply like everyone's opinion on, just because of the fact that it takes a Provari to output a flat, constant wavelength, so the sources say. Seems a bit of a stretch to say that a Twist works in the same way as a Provari (though the technology could be close enough and modern enough that it's a neglible difference, I don't know, its why I'm asking.)

If the answer is yes, they can have this defect and/or trait, then I'm chucking this junk and getting an MVP straight away. If the answer is no, it could never be a possibility, it's back to trying to figure out the atomic details of why no devices out there seem to wick right.

 

[Tinkiegrrl]

Buy the MVP 2 for $40. You will be pleased. The voltage you set it for will be what you get. Or, get an iTaste VV v3 for cheaper then the MVP if you want to keep the ego form factor. Don't toss you ego's though. Pay them forward if anything. I just gave one of mine to my sister in law who wanted to try.

 

[Orb Skewer]

It's a very interesting question you raise GoodNews,
variable consequential analysis is important in the field of vaping-there is no doubt about it,

here is a graph

 

[GoodNews!]

It's an old type of topic, but all I really want to know is if a Twist model could ever, through damage or design, suffer an effect like the old Zmax's, which caused atties to reach like a 100 degrees hotter than they would in other batteries. Some claimed those batteries weren't useable, so I think it's an important question.

Now, to me, it doesn't seem like my battery is igniting my coils on fire (I allow for really good wicking before I vape) but it does seem as though something is causing all my atomizers to taste burnt right off the bat, even with a soaked wick. With all the gizmos inside these batteries, I'm just wondering if even a drop could cause a Twist to suddenly suffer some problem like that. I don't know about it. All I know is what my vape tells me, and my battery or atties are saying they're ...... at me.

And I know that I've never had a bad vape when trying out someone else's battery mod. Have no clue why. I was sitting here pondering why all the juice tests at the shops taste great, and then a thought suddenly hit me - everything there was vaped on a big mod!

 

[Tinkiegrrl]

Pbusardo I think has run tests on the output of many devices. Not sure if he's done the twists. As for damage causing the output to jump really high, I don't know. I know I've dropped my cheap, 5 click, VV, ego type generic several times and it's alway vaped as before. I also know that I find the vape from the MVP to be superior and I hate having to resort to my old ego VV while the MVP and the iTaste VV v3 are charging. Then again, my old ego is a generic, not a twist, so I can't comment on the difference in vape quality from an MVP and a twist.

 

[GoodNews!]

That's really what I'm wondering too - supposedly, the MVP's guts do a pretty darn perfect job of mimicking the vape of a Provari, which is still said to be one of the most accurate vapes on the market (though when it comes to variations between .1 or .2 volts, that's nothing I'm concerned about). But where the Twist stands in that equation, I don't know if they can end up having problems more like an old Zmax, or if the technology is mostly more modern, or if there's a middle ground, I just don't know...

I just know that on my battery, the only thing that ever tastes okay is a coil that's literally sitting in juice, literally, sitting in it. or a 3.5ohm coil. Nothing else works, nothing else refrains from tasting burnt. Seems to be a sign that something is just not right. All along, I've been going off about build quality of cleaomizers and such, just to find out there were just as crazy acting of people two years ago who were saying all the same things, only to find out it was the Zmax. So who knows at this point, I just know I am frustrated to wits end.

 

[Tinkiegrrl]

I'd say that if every clearo you've tried tasted burnt and nasty, it's time to start looking at your device. Usually, someone can find at least one clearo that works for them it seems. You've tried and commented on several. For the price of the MVP or the VVv3, it wouldn't hurt to get one. It isn't something I've experienced, even on my generic batt, but who knows, you could be working with a dud. As for whether or not an MVP can hold candle to the Provari, I do not know. Considering price difference, I'm sure the Provari regulates energy in a different way then the MVP. Still, the end result appears to be that flat line of energy output. I still want a Provari, as I think the tube would do better in my hand then the box of the MVP. Also, as I've decided that I'm sticking with this for the foreseeable future, it makes sense to buy something that'll last the test of time. To me, an MVP is more of an introductory piece. A good one to learn about what you like as far as power is concerned. Learn about ohm law, watts, volts, what have you before you invest in something permanent. Also, it'll probably remain to be my main commute work horse, as I'll be afraid to loose the Provari during it. The MVP won't hurt as much to loose.

 

[Tinkiegrrl]

This is not to say that every twist out there is a piece of you know what. Just that, if juice in the shop tastes fine on their devices and they're using the same clearos you've had terrible luck with, plus when you take a hit off anyone else's device it's fine, then by process of elimination I would blame the device. I would think mine just wasn't working as intended though, not that that flat line shown in Pbusardo'd videos mean that that burnt taste is normal on all devices save for the MVP, Provari, and DNA 20 devices. Some prefer the pulse of energy on other devices, and nothing should be burning out every single coil under 3 ohms.

 

[Wow1420]

I could see how the voltage markings on the dial could be wrong, or even for regulation to fail completely on a twist.

It should be very easy for a shop or a friend with a multimeter to check for you. If you know someone who has a meter, just ask them to check if the voltage set on the dial matches the actual output when the button is pushed.

 

[Dzaw]

What you're atlking about is the pulse width modulation. With the infamous Chinese 33.3 chip it is very noticeable, and can make many coils run at a temp consistent with a notably higher setting.

The vape experience is dependent on coil temp, not electricity flow. We, as end users manipulate coil temp by upping or dropping the electricity flow.

By pulsing power many times per second, you can approximate a given flow of electricity. That's how most of our current variabl devices work. When the frequency of peak and no energy is slow enough, there isnt time between pulses for the coil to cool enough, but the pulse is long enough for it to get hotter than target. That's why the 33.3 driven devices ( vamo, max, tesl, etc) seem to 'run hot'. They in face do run hot. This is much worse in average mode than in rms mode, which uses a closer approximation calculation.

Many other midrange, older VV devices operate at 60 hz, and this is a notable improvement. The higher end devices like provari, DNA, semovar, etc. are signal filtered and while they do approximate current flow using. Similar style of PWM, it's at hundreds of pulses per second, making the effect almost undetectable.

I believe that the ego twist has a much more basic approach, and delivers straight dc current as a result. However, also as a result, it cannot handle a very high load, being limited to 2.5 amps, and lacks things like short protection. If dropped the wrong way, I could see either a loss of ability to adjust, or a complete failure of the device, but I don't see a 33.3 style running hot issue.

 

[catalinaflyer]

This is not to say that every twist out there is a piece of you know what. Just that, if juice in the shop tastes fine on their devices and they're using the same clearos you've had terrible luck with, plus when you take a hit off anyone else's device it's fine, then by process of elimination I would blame the device. I would think mine just wasn't working as intended though, not that that flat line shown in Pbusardo'd videos mean that that burnt taste is normal on all devices save for the MVP, Provari, and DNA 20 devices. Some prefer the pulse of energy on other devices, and nothing should be burning out every single coil under 3 ohms.

And just like I said on another thread, I can take the same RBA (RSST) and run it on two different mods at the EXACT same voltage (tested with a fluke meter) and have two completely different results. I can build a coil for my wife's dripper and have it taste near perfection on one of my mods then she puts it on her twist and it's all off. So I went and bought the exact identical twist as she has just to use to test coils I build for her so that she gets the same results as I do when I build it.

 

[Thrasher]

I understand what your getting at GN, and it has in fact been proven that smaller batteries are not very accurate or hold the voltage as steady as bigger mods, while they do not suffer the pulsing effects of cheaper mods like vamo or zmax the chips inside the sticks are notorious for not holding the voltage at the setting you ask for and the effect is worse as the battery dies.

on of the problems many of the smaller batteries have is a very low amperage threshold and the output will in fact vary depending on the device you put on it in regards to output power.

where you should be looking is more at the fluctuations of the output comparable to the setting you choose and not so much the way that they output the power.

the phenomenon you are referring to with the ego being like a provari has nothing to do with the difference in price and more to do with oscilloscope signals,(IE the way they produce the electric signal) the cheaper mods like the vamo have very noticeable spikes which overdrive the coil causing the vapor to appear hotter.

what can happen is a half charged ego set to 3.8 volts may give you a perfect vape then you move that clearo to a fully charged battery set to 3.8V and it is actually putting out 4v for the first 15 minutes of battery life, then 3.8v for a little bit then drop to 3.6v for the last 1/3 of the battery life and this is a product of the chips inside are just not very accurate or regulated very well.

as for .1-.2 v not being a big deal. when you finally do use a mod that is very steady you notice it more then you think you would. with certain resistances on certain devices .1 v does in fact make a difference you can sense. in the case of an ego there is a very real drop and sometimes it can be several .1 v the longer you hold the button causing you to turn the setting up, then when you press the button again for the first 1/2 second the setting is actually too high until the battery sags again. by then you have already scorched the wick and no setting will appear ok after that ,even though it may be running fine it is too late you burned it.

the lack of voltage spikes and sags in the signal is what makes the better mods better. if you ask for 4.1v on a provari you get 4.1 volts, every press from fresh battery to dead, weather you hold the button for 4 seconds or 10 seconds. and this is why they are considered better. they constantly adjust themselves to maintain a steady output no matter how much the battery sags or drops so there is no weird fluctuation to keep adjusting for, which then equated to a smoother experience.

in the case of an ego it can run hot, run cold and everywhere in between giving you seemingly untraceable issues with the voltage or vapor output.

as for your cisco atty do a quick dry burn and rinse it out, after 2-3 icky tasting starting puffs it should go right back to the performance you started with.

 

[Nermal]

It's a very interesting question you raise GoodNews,
variable consequential analysis is important in the field of vaping-there is no doubt about it, here is a graph

Huh. . . . . . .?

 

[catalinaflyer]

Huh. . . . . . .?

I think after long, detailed analysis of the graph it's a graph of the single point the OP is trying to make.

 

[BillyWJ]

It's an old type of topic, but all I really want to know is if a Twist model could ever, through damage or design, suffer an effect like the old Zmax's, which caused atties to reach like a 100 degrees hotter than they would in other batteries. Some claimed those batteries weren't useable, so I think it's an important question.

Now, to me, it doesn't seem like my battery is igniting my coils on fire (I allow for really good wicking before I vape) but it does seem as though something is causing all my atomizers to taste burnt right off the bat, even with a soaked wick. With all the gizmos inside these batteries, I'm just wondering if even a drop could cause a Twist to suddenly suffer some problem like that. I don't know about it. All I know is what my vape tells me, and my battery or atties are saying they're ...... at me.

And I know that I've never had a bad vape when trying out someone else's battery mod. Have no clue why. I was sitting here pondering why all the juice tests at the shops taste great, and then a thought suddenly hit me - everything there was vaped on a big mod!

Get a multi-meter and test the output, that's what Phil is basically doing with his test box.

 

[GoodNews!]

Well, I've had my battery tested with a multimeter, and the only odd thing that was found (depending on the charge) was that at 3.3V's, it was outputting 3.1V's, and at 4.8V's, it was outputting either 4.6V's or 5.0V's, I forgot what the shop said. It was almost dead though for that time it was checked, so I figured the oddities were normal with a low battery.

The information about how the Spinner-and-such batteries are more like a system where the current isn't as bad as the old Zmax's, but still fluctuates by some 0.1V points, seems to reflect what my battery does (though I'm not sure if this is what could be burning out my clearos.) I always start on 3.3V's on any test (which is confusing as to why my coils always taste burnt), but during the tests, if the first couple fires won't produce much flavor or vapor, then I usually I move it up to 3.6V's as the next step, and maybe when I do that, this fluctuation effect suddenly "kicks in" and delivers full on 3.6V's, which what I may have needed to do is wait and see if the 3.3V's simply got better on it's own after like 4 fires.

But overall, really, from what I read, people generally seem to go all over the place with the voltage on the Spinners and Twists and such, or use all sorts of coils with the 3.7V non-VV's, and no one seems to be having issues that are so "in their face" like my issues have been. When I hear that people are vaping at 4.6V's and 1.8ohms, my brain is just blown and I don't understand it; I haven't gotten anything to taste right except the combination of 4.1V's and 3.5ohms (though that fluke may have been down to coil build and manufacturing standards of a new brand). For some reason I can't explain, it would seem that either A. I have terrible luck with clearos. or B. Something is wrong with my battery.

Like, when trying clearos and other devices on other batteries and mods, if I just suddenly chain vape them, the flavor will go down a tad, or for instance in the vendor shop, I tasted one clearo out of like 40 that seemed a little dry (in that ratio, you cough it up to a bad head or old coil), but I have experienced absolutely nothing like my experiences on other folk's batteries or clearos. The only other explaination I could think of, and I brought this up elsewhere, is that when people give me their battery/clearo combination to test, they always seem to fire it without drawing before handing it to me. I've always found this to be just crazy, but maybe that odd action (which most people do just to hear if the device is 'turning on') somehow causes the wick to jump to life and start sucking in juice a whole lot better rather than just immediately drawing on it after it's been sitting there? I dunno.

I just know that I can't go off spending money on a new battery if I don't have conclusive proof that a new battery would fix the issue. I would have to really sit down at the vendor a minute and test out their battery, even possibly asking them if I could try their sample clearos on my own battery, seeing if there's a difference. I really do hope it could be my battery because that'd be such a simple fix, but so far, I'm just not hearing the conclusive proof that what's in my battery really could be doing enough damage to instantly cause a coil to taste burnt. It seems the science behind it shows that these batteries are a bit more self-controlled than the old zmax's, but what about damage to the battery, dropping it, getting the connector wet, ect ect? Any chance that those things can effect the wavelengths and pulses and all that, essentially, by damage, causing the same issue (that can't be read by a standard voltage checker) that the old mods had?

 

[Myrany]

I guess I would have to ask what setting you had the spinners on when it was tested. How far off and which way might be a good indication if it was the battery. A battery reading HIGHER than the setting would disturb me

 

[HawaiiVPR]

You can analyze the science behind batteries all day if you like, but why not just sample a different device with one of your unused clearomizers?

 

[GoodNews!]

Well, the shop that I used to go to only had one mod or so they use to use to let people test (I forgot which one it was, it was some sort of battery mod I believe), but I kept taking time out of my day to go down there and have polite discussions with them as to why my devices weren't working, and after just getting extremely rude attitudes from the employees, and the employees eventually being caught stealing money from me (not giving me advertised sales and discounts and refusing to refund the money after the mistakes were caught, selling me cheaper, lesser branded or clone items specifically marketed as name brand items and refusing returns or exchanges) I filed a report with them with the BBB and had a few choice words for them, so I'm not headed back there any time soon.

There's a new shop opening up at the end of the month and talking with one of the managers at a different location, they seem to know their stuff a little better (the first shop didn't know anything about vaping, and the employees didn't even vape), as they sell all sorts of RDA gear (multiple types of silica, ecowool, three different gauges of kanthal, ect ect). The manager was also pretty open about his experiences and told me that he really only vapes cartotanks if not rebuilding, so he seemed generally honest (though, you have to watch out - a new marketing trend with vendors is to automatically recommend cartoanks and RDA's if any customer virtually has any problem; if the vendors really stood behind the opinion, they wouldn't sell the crappy stuff, especially the outdated stuff from 2009, and advertise it as "the best vape ever".) So I'm hoping with that, that this new vendor may actually have some mods to try out and allow me to slap some of my own devices on there.

And with my battery, I'm not really sure of the specifics - it was tested at the first shop, again, by employees who didn't seem to know a rats fart from its burp, and they were the ones taking it behind the counter and doing whatever with it. I probably need a second opinion on it though, because this first shop was probably the shadiest business in my town - literally, I was trying clearomizer flavors out one day, and I specifically asked which ohm'd heads they were using for them, and the employee told me, straight to my face, "Sorry, but I don't need to check that, they work fine no matter what heads we use." and refused to even look at a few of the heads that you can clearly see inside the cleaos. The whole time, it was like they wanted to purposely withhold any important information from me in order for me to buy more junk.

Also, when one of the employees stole money from me, I specifically talked to the owner, and he said, straight to my face, "Sorry, I can't give you a store credit (which is all I asked for), what's done is done." and turned his back on me and walked away.

Thank goodness though, the shop is quickly becoming the laughing stock of the town, every customer that walks in there ends up screaming and yelling at them (I was the nicest customer in there, imagine that!) and the employees were utterly careless and hateful. They repeated the same line to every customer, "This (clone) here gives such awesome flavor, and this (clone) here gives such a throat hit, it is just 'mmm-mmm' good! Perfection!" They were literally selling 650mah cloned Ego batteries at $25 a pop. Ridiculous.

Anyway yeah, way off topic, but yeah, hopefully I can get some more definate proof soon as to what the real issue going on here is, with the clearomizer experiences. From trying out like a dozen CE4/5's, the PTII, the Aro, the iClear 30, the Aspire, multiple non-brand dripping atties, all that good stuff, and only getting a good vape on the 3.5ohm Cisco and one rare CE4, I just am really starting to consider there's a bigger explanation than "all this stuff could just be junk." There is no way that it could be explained by simply saying everyone's walking around with a number tongue, or that I'm doing something wrong across like 20 devices and then 30 different heads on top of that. More than just two would have worked no matter if I was breaking every single vaping rule!

 

[Myrany]

GoodNews maybe you have a friend that owns a digital multimeter that could test the batterys for you. It is very simple to do. red lead on the positive post inside the connector black lead on the threading I believe. you will have to push the fire button for it to read.

be sure to note what setting the spinner is set to and what the corresponding reading is.