Do You Believe In Aliens or UFOs?

[Zofryer]

Incidentally, Grats to Bones for effectively undoing the threadjack. It's not easy.

 

[gashin]

Theories are false unless supported by evidence.

I call BS. For one, if you came from a "hard science background" you'd understand the difference between the dictionary definition of Theory and Scientific Theory. They are two completely different things. That's why if someone says "Evolution is just a theory" you can laugh your ... off at them. To be fair, nobody else has made the distinction in the thread either.

A theory, in the scientific sense of the word, is an analytic structure designed to explain a set of empirical observations. A scientific theory does two things:

1. it identifies this set of distinct observations as a class of phenomena, and
2. makes assertions about the underlying reality that brings about or affects this class.

In the scientific or empirical tradition, the term "theory" is reserved for ideas which meet baseline requirements about the kinds of empirical observations made, the methods of classification used, and the consistency of the theory in its application among members of the class to which it pertains. These requirements vary across different scientific fields of knowledge, but in general theories are expected to be functional and parsimonious: i.e. a theory should be the simplest possible tool that can be used to effectively address the given class of phenomena.

 

[gashin]

How did you and the others here come to believe in E.T.? Are you you going to claim that you didn't form your beliefs because of the baseless probabilities provided by self-righteous astronomers?

Are you even reading anyone's posts? One last time: No one here is claiming that there IS life on other planets. We claim that we believe that there's a high probability that life exists elsewhere. Probability is not proof. Speculation is not proof. Belief is not proof. You're fighting against claims that we haven't made.



You're ignoring the replies people have already made to this point. There's wild speculation based on no facts and there's informed speculation based on facts. We're engaging in informed speculation here. There are many relevant facts that go directly to the probability that there is life on other worlds.

But if you're just going to keep spinning your wheels and arguing against positions that were never taken, it's pointless to continue.

 

[Kelly79]

Yea - well - I'm not about to get into the whole "evidence V proof" thing again - LMAO -

Ah come on Bones, that was fun LOL!

 

[Kelly79]

Theories are false unless supported by evidence.

No they are simply 'unproven', and anyone who's taken even a basic science class would know that.

And technically belief in life outside our solar system (or in it for that matter) is a hypothesis not a theory, a hypothesis is an intelligent guess that is yet unsupported by evidentiary proof. And just because do not yet have the means to obtain evidentiary proof, does not mean we have to abandon our hypothesis.

 

[Kelly79]

How did you and the others here come to believe in E.T.? Are you you going to claim that you didn't form your beliefs because of the baseless probabilities provided by self-righteous astronomers?

I do not believe, as there is a significant lack of evidence of their existence, though hard logic makes a good argument for it.

I also do not disbelieve in their existence, because there is also a significant lack of evidence against it. However the argument against it lacks logic and has an abundance or arrogance.

I do though hope to one day know the true and evidence supported answer to the question of the existence of other life (intelligent or otherwise).

 

[gashin]

I phrased that wrong - theories aren't true unless they are supported by evidence. All I'm trying to say is that there is no evidence that we will ever find E.T. - this is it, to claim otherwise is to make baseless speculations.

No they are simply 'unproven', and anyone who's taken even a basic science class would know that.

And technically belief in life outside our solar system (or in it for that matter) is a hypothesis not a theory, a hypothesis is an intelligent guess that is yet unsupported by evidentiary proof. And just because do not yet have the means to obtain evidentiary proof, does not mean we have to abandon our hypothesis.

 

[gashin]

All I'm trying to point out is that it's ridiculous that so many people "believe" in aliens when there is 0 proof of their existence. They say it's highly probable but can't explain how it can be highly probably or even probable at all when there is 0 evidence of life beyond earth....

I do not believe, as there is a significant lack of evidence of their existence, though hard logic makes a good argument for it.

I also do not disbelieve in their existence, because there is also a significant lack of evidence against it. However the argument against it lacks logic and has an abundance or arrogance.

I do though hope to one day know the true and evidence supported answer to the question of the existence of other life (intelligent or otherwise).

 

[gashin]

Saucer-shaped UFOs have been around for more than 60 years and can be attributed to military testing....

Yea - well - I'm not about to get into the whole "evidence V proof" thing again - LMAO -

I've seen a couple myself - I'm always open to a logical explanation - and I think that 95% of sightings are something more mundane - But that remaining 5% is pretty convincing to me - Still the whole "military testing" argument does nothing to explain the frequent occurances of saucer shaped flying machines and aliens depicted in art that predates any flight by man - There is nothing modern about the phenomenon

Ancient Aircraft - Crystalinks
http://www.alienshift.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/EgyptAliens.jpg
http://admin.moguling.com/Upload/ufopictureblog.com/ufoegypt1craft1small.jpg
Christian art, UFO pictures, aliens, Jesus Christ, and ascension

 

[gashin]

And the single proof of evidence that supports the E.T. theory???? Evolution is considered to be practically a fact because of the overwhelming amount of evidence that supports it - E.T. on the other hand....

I call BS. For one, if you came from a "hard science background" you'd understand the difference between the dictionary definition of Theory and Scientific Theory. They are two completely different things. That's why if someone says "Evolution is just a theory" you can laugh your ... off at them. To be fair, nobody else has made the distinction in the thread either.

A theory, in the scientific sense of the word, is an analytic structure designed to explain a set of empirical observations. A scientific theory does two things:

1. it identifies this set of distinct observations as a class of phenomena, and
2. makes assertions about the underlying reality that brings about or affects this class.

In the scientific or empirical tradition, the term "theory" is reserved for ideas which meet baseline requirements about the kinds of empirical observations made, the methods of classification used, and the consistency of the theory in its application among members of the class to which it pertains. These requirements vary across different scientific fields of knowledge, but in general theories are expected to be functional and parsimonious: i.e. a theory should be the simplest possible tool that can be used to effectively address the given class of phenomena.

 

[gashin]

It's a huge step to jump from 0 evidence to claiming that something is highly probable. Again, I'm asking how you guys came to your beliefs? You didn't just decide one day to believe in E.T. did you?

Oh. My. God.

"Lack of evidence does equal lack of existence."

Completely unsupportable. Did the North and South American continents not exist until evidence of them was discovered? Did the outer planets not exist until evidence of them was discovered? Did other galaxies not exist until evidence of them was discovered?

And YET AGAIN, let's make this clear. NO ONE HERE HAS CLAIMED THAT LIFE EXISTS ON OTHER PLANETS. All we've said is that we BELIEVE it does. How many more times are you going to make me say that? Stop putting words in our mouths. Stop attributing arguments to us that we NEVER MADE.

 

[gashin]

To me it is arrogance that causes people to make claims of probable E.T. life without a single shred of evidence. How can you go from 0 evidence of there being life outside of earth to claiming that it is highly probable? This is merely human desire....

To me, the arrogance argument is the biggest reason to believe earth isn't the only life-populated planet. Mankind always jumps directly to the "it's the ONLY one!" scenario... and is practically always proven wrong. People have a very hard time wrapping their minds around the idea that earth may be a very typical and un-extraordinary planet.

 

[Surf Monkey]

baseless probabilities provided by self-righteous astronomers?

Way to poison the question. It's your assertion that the probability is baseless (it's not) and that certain astronomers are self-righteous. Adding those qualifications is insulting and shows that you haven't been reading or giving any consideration to the arguments provided by the people you're challenging.

 

[gashin]

Subjective observation without confirmation through other experimental methods is not solid evidence....

Good enough - Nice to know - Still it does not in any way dispute the fact that NASA uses the term "alien spacecraft" - Which is the feed that I was talking about - What are they referring to? The one I posted is just one example - They have been caught many times saying "alien spacecraft" in discussions about something unknown flying around shuttle missions - Why would they not say Unidentified Object? There was a show on the History Channel a couple of years ago that showed a 15 minute long conversation between the Shuttle and Mission Control - They used the phrase "alien spacecraft" repeatedly - Then a warning was given to keep it down and they used more vauge terms such as bogy - I can't seem to find that video right now - They never once called it Unidentified - They seemed very aware of what it was and rather disturbed by it - Orders were given to keep an eye on it and continue to monitor it - Eventually it flew away and they went back to the mission at hand - Space Junk does not fly away - nor does it move in directions that oppose Earth orbit and follow a shuttle - as this one was doing -

 

[Surf Monkey]

To me it is arrogance that causes people to make claims of probable E.T. life without a single shred of evidence. How can you go from 0 evidence of there being life outside of earth to claiming that it is highly probable? This is merely human desire....

Saying the same thing over and over again doesn't make it true.

It seems to me that you're the one being dogmatic about this. We've already outlined what factors the probability calculations are based on. You've ignored them. All you do is assert again and again that there's 0 evidence, therefore there is no life beyond earth. That's just as stupid as saying that there's 0 evidence therefore there IS life beyond earth. If you were honest and actually read what we've posted, you'd see that we're NOT saying that aliens DO exist. What we're saying is that probability (based on actual data) suggests that it's likely that we're not alone in the universe.

And that's really the end of the discussion, since all you're doing here is mischaracterizing our positions and then getting worked up about it. You're doing battle with a straw man, friend. You're essentially arguing with yourself.

 

[freedomendured]

My father served in the US Navy during the Vietnam war. He was stationed in the Gulf of Tonkin, and one one night he and another sailor were the night watch on deck. They were just sitting there when a ball of light came up from the horizon at highly unnatural or man-made speed. it then proceeded to zig-zag all over the sky (again stopping on a dime and accelerating at incredible speed) until it zoomed off into the distance. The Govt took a statement and swore him to secrecy. No bullcrap I am NOT making this up lol.

 

[Harry Crazington]

Yep they call em Foo Fighters, also seen in WW1 & WW2 & Korean wars.

 

[Zofryer]

You're doing battle with a straw man, friend. You're essentially arguing with yourself.

Yeah, I called that about 9 pages ago. The worst part is, I can see him smiling to himself thinking he's being clever using a 12 year old's tactic to do what I'd imagine he thinks is clever trolling. A clever troll requires 1 post. Sticking your fingers in your eyes and ears and going "la la la la la" requires a 3rd grade education.

 

[Kelly79]

I phrased that wrong - theories aren't true unless they are supported by evidence. All I'm trying to say is that there is no evidence that we will ever find E.T. - this is it, to claim otherwise is to make baseless speculations.

There is no evidence that we won't either! Theories aren't true or false untill they are proven so by evidence. Science would never advance without those willing to make baseless speculation. After all why bother trying to prove something if you already have the evidence that it's true???

 

[Kelly79]

All I'm trying to point out is that it's ridiculous that so many people "believe" in aliens when there is 0 proof of their existence. They say it's highly probable but can't explain how it can be highly probably or even probable at all when there is 0 evidence of life beyond earth....

The probability lies in the very fact that WE exist. The universe is vast, and what's the likelihood that ours is the one and only planet in all of the universe that has any life whatsoever??? It's absurd to say that there can't possibly be any life but ours.