Does the new Regulation have a point?

[chesney]

Well, I've tried higher nicotine, It just makes me feel sick.

There won't be many that stopped smoking completely and then started using nicotine again with an ecigarette so it might be a while before we find out if it is just me I suppose. Could be though. Unless its just you with the Buzz thing going on of course. It may be difficult to find a vaper that admits vaping is purely a nicotine delivery system, and its not enjoyable. Same with tobacco smokers and other users of drugs, they prefer to believe their activity is enjoyable. Otherwise, why would they do it?

I broke the addiction before, and others, even caffeine once, that was the worst one. I've read on these forums that its debatable if nicotine is addictive. Again, unless its just me, I am positive it is addictive , although with an ecigarette I had to be determined to become an addict again. I lost 12kg in weight during the experience too, not sure what that was all about, I must have eaten less.

Before I stopped smoking tobacco, I had come to the conclusion that I was a mere addict, there was nothing remotely enjoyable about tobacco smoking. Many live their whole lives quite successfully without ever being addicted to anything or even smoking tobacco.

Maybe because of that I have always seen the ecig for what it is, a nicotine delivery system. Its great but thats all it is. It would take a month or two of craving, but the whole world could live without it, and tobacco.

I know thats never going to happen, Just Sayin'

 

[Panorama911]

Tobacco is taxed under the guise it will deter smokers....epic fail. Age restrictions were placed to keep minors from drinking and smoking....epic fail.....Knowing the results of what I just mentioned is no different in what the E cig industry is facing, just another attempt to increase revenue all under the guise of "bleeding hearts of concern" !

They can place all the taxes and restrictions known to mankind on anything and the children, if they really want whatever it is, they will get it!!!.....Period

Just this weekend I saw 3 teens smoking and drinking, taxes and restrictions/regulations never deterred them one iota!

It is simply just a government(s) using all it can to justify the reasoning that what they really want is your tax dollars!

 

[DaveSignal]

I think part of the reason people concentrate on modding, blowing massive amounts of clouds, messing with huge varieties of flavours is because, basically vaping is just a boring activity, its a device to keep your nicotine addiction in check and nothing more. The flavours and the cloud competitions add an element of excitement to the very dull true point of an ecigarette.

I don't think so. I don't think you have the experience to judge something that you haven't tried yet. You aren't feeling anything from your cigalike because the device is weak. It doesn't make much vapor, has cheap flavor, uses little juice, and requires you to pull really hard (like trying to breath through a tiny straw) just to get any decent enjoyment. Massive flavor and clouds DOES add an element of excitement and pleasure, though. But its not just because there is much more clouds and much more flavor. The whole experience is wondrous. What an enjoyable pastime! This is what vaping is supposed to be. This is why people quit smoking; It's something far greater than tobacco cigarettes. Its not supposed to look like a cigarette. It's not supposed to taste like a cigarette. It's not suppposed to be inhaled mouth-to-lung like a cigarette. My vaping mods and RDAs are not e-cigarettes. This is quite different. Thank god we are not still stuck with the cigalikes.

 

[nebulis]

The reason for the refillables, more powerful devices and a variety of flavored liquids is obvious, to me at least. The manufacturers are responding to consumer requests. That's how it works. Manufacturers make products available and then wait to see what sells.

The most popular and most respected Youtube reviewer in German speaking countries (Philgood) asked Joyetech lately, why they, too, now go down the subohm-and-more-power path almost exclusively. Philgood says (and I think he is right, I also think this is valid for other countries as well) that the majority of vapers do not even know what Ohm is and that they use (and prefer) simple Evod-like devices. Why is there no more "simple" equipment for exactly this majority? Joyetech answered in keeping with your statement: This is what the consumers wish.

But do they really? Philgood argues that this is only what the consumers who use social media, FB and forums wish and this is where Joyetech (and all the others) listen and pick up their marketing wisdom. The real majority does not think twice about having wishes, they just buy what they find in the shops. This is also one of the reasons why so many of them are frustrated with their high-power-low-ohm etcetera fancy equipment and they do not even know why.

This is one of the reasons I agree with chesney, at least partly. I don't quite agree with the point that refillable tanks are responsible for the bigger-more-stronger way of vaping that has become so popular lately. But I agree that the bigger-more-stronger development being so very dominant can make it easier for regulators to regulate. More important than that: it also could make vaping more difficult (or undesirable/unattractive) for people who want to stop smoking. I think most of them simply want to vape - but they also want to vape simply.

 

[chesney]

Tobacco is taxed under the guise it will deter smokers....epic fail. Age restrictions were placed to keep minors from drinking and smoking....epic fail.....Knowing the results of what I just mentioned is no different in what the E cig industry is facing, just another attempt to increase revenue all under the guise of "bleeding hearts of concern" !

They can place all the taxes and restrictions known to mankind on anything and the children, if they really want whatever it is, they will get it!!!.....Period

Just this weekend I saw 3 teens smoking and drinking, taxes and restrictions/regulations never deterred them one iota!

It is simply just a government(s) using all it can to justify the reasoning that what they really want is your tax dollars!

I agree, all governments should stay out of peoples way, we would do better without them, well, some of us would. I think anarchy is a good way forward, but again, I'm realistic, this is not going to happen. People seem to enjoy being told what to do. Anarchy would be messy for a while too. I think that what your implying is that refillables or not, flavours or not, the government would get involved anyway. Fair point, may well be correct. Without the liquid in bottles danger and the candy crush type flavours though, what would they be saving us from? Just nicotine? Thats everywhere anyway, we all eat it every day.

 

[chesney]

I don't think so. I don't think you have the experience to judge something that you haven't tried yet. You aren't feeling anything from your cigalike because the device is weak. It doesn't make much vapor, has cheap flavor, uses little juice, and requires you to pull really hard (like trying to breath through a tiny straw) just to get any decent enjoyment. Massive flavor and clouds DOES add an element of excitement and pleasure, though. But its not just because there is much more clouds and much more flavor. The whole experience is wondrous. What an enjoyable pastime! This is what vaping is supposed to be. This is why people quit smoking; It's something far greater than tobacco cigarettes. Its not supposed to look like a cigarette. It's not supposed to taste like a cigarette. It's not suppposed to be inhaled mouth-to-lung like a cigarette. My vaping mods and RDAs are not e-cigarettes. This is quite different. Thank god we are not still stuck with the cigalikes.

OK, well maybe there is some kind of fun exciting element to bellowing flavoured clouds of vapour all over the place, its lost on me, but I can understand that. Lots of things are lost on me, I don't like roller coasters either for instance, some people love them. Don't presume my device is weak, I love it, I can bellow large amounts of vapour all over the place, I just prefer to inhale it so it can deliver my brain what it wants as quickly as possible. If an ecigarette is not supposed to be taken into lung to deliver nicotine what is the point in puffing vapour around, we could do that with smoke machines couldn't we?

 

[chesney]

The most popular and most respected Youtube reviewer in German speaking countries (Philgood) asked Joyetech lately, why they, too, now go down the subohm-and-more-power path almost exclusively. Philgood says (and I think he is right, I also think this is valid for other countries as well) that the majority of vapers do not even know what Ohm is and that they use (and prefer) simple Evod-like devices. Why is there no more "simple" equipment for exactly this majority? Joyetech answered in keeping with your statement: This is what the consumers wish.

But do they really? Philgood argues that this is only what the consumers who use social media, FB and forums wish and this is where Joyetech (and all the others) listen and pick up their marketing wisdom. The real majority does not think twice about having wishes, they just buy what they find in the shops. This is also one of the reasons why so many of them are frustrated with their high-power-low-ohm etcetera fancy equipment and they do not even know why.

This is one of the reasons I agree with chesney, at least partly. I don't quite agree with the point that refillable tanks are responsible for the bigger-more-stronger way of vaping that has become so popular lately. But I agree that the bigger-more-stronger development being so very dominant can make it easier for regulators to regulate. More important than that: it also could make vaping more difficult (or undesirable/unattractive) for people who want to stop smoking. I think most of them simply want to vape - but they also want to vape simply.

Well said you. A very intelligent response to my initial post that completely understood what I was getting at.

 

[gandymarsh]

Well actually, those devices are still around. I just bought 2 Evod 650 mah standard batteries that are in the mail now.

The people that want the more powerful devices and better tanks/RDAs etc. are just more vocal than the ones who are satisfied with the low end equipment.

A car analogy would be... Most people just want a car that gets them from point A to point B reliably that hauls want they want to haul. Then there are the people who want more power, more noise or more bling. I guess it has to do with the type A vs type B personality.

 

[Susan~S]

Again, unless its just me, I am positive it is addictive

The list of chemicals in cigarette smoke is ridiculously long. It could be any one or combination of them that creates that ridiculously strong compulsion to smoke. It's a real eye-opener for all of us when we first realize that our dependence wasn't (at least not solely) for nicotine.

Another article by @rolygate ECF's Forum Manager: Nicotine Propaganda

 

[hashtag]

The kid friendliness gave some fuel for the fire but it was all just a matter of time and impact to BT/BP.

If you DIY everything the only product you have to worry about being regulated is the nicotine liquid. Everything else is readily accessible and heavily used in other industries.

 

[DaveSignal]

OK, well maybe there is some kind of fun exciting element to bellowing flavoured clouds of vapour all over the place, its lost on me, but I can understand that. Lots of things are lost on me, I don't like roller coasters either for instance, some people love them. Don't presume my device is weak, I love it, I can bellow large amounts of vapour all over the place, I just prefer to inhale it so it can deliver my brain what it wants as quickly as possible. If an ecigarette is not supposed to be taken into lung to deliver nicotine what is the point in puffing vapour around, we could do that with smoke machines couldn't we?

Vaping in the UK hasn't progressed very rapidly. I know because I am currently in the UK (north yorkshire). The vendors here sell cigalikes and maybe a nautilus tank, maybe a single clone mech mod, and some very basic regulated devices.
But the big airflow, high power, vaping style requires direct to lung inhale. The is no "taking a drag" like a cigarette is smoked. The vapor just fills your lungs, like taking a deep breath. Its just a different style, but not like smoking a cigarette. Its different. If you get to this degree, you will look back at the mouth-to-lung devices as "puffing vaping around" like a little smoke machine... lacking the great pleasure of a true lung hit.

 

[TFL!]

I don't know the rest on the people that vape. But I vape the way I smoked MtL I Vape to stay off Cig and for my Health.
Don't need massive clouds or a billion watts.

 

[nyiddle]

I just prefer to inhale it so it can deliver my brain what it wants as quickly as possible. If an ecigarette is not supposed to be taken into lung to deliver nicotine what is the point in puffing vapour around, we could do that with smoke machines couldn't we?

Are you assuming people who lung hit/blow massive clouds somehow aren't inhaling?

Because they absolutely are. Likely moreso than M2L vapers. (Not saying one is better by any means, I go back and forth all the time).

ETA: "M2L" should be added to the glossary/show up as a highlight-able keyword, I'm seeing it used a LOT more in recent months.

 

[Baditude]

I can't help being slightly embarrassed and disappointed with the way the electronic cigarette industry threw itself whole heartedly into the refillable idea.

I always thought bottled of liquid were a little dangerous to have around, especially with bright labels and lots of various sweet flavours. I have four children, they will eat or drink anything when crawling around. It just seemed so unnecessary.

Now we have a million different flavours, some very high strengths on the shelves of so called Vape shops, Massive and awkward looking ecigarette devices with large tanks

The direction it took from about 2010 ish seemed to be appealing to the younger alco pop type community.

You tube is full of Vapers that seem to be more interested in the size of the cloud and the complexity of their vaping machine than anything else. (Dude)

I do remember being worried that the flavours like, candy crush, lager, etc would attract the wrong type of attention. I did expect an outright ban, it seems we did escape a ban but I think that this liquid refilling blowing massive clouds and using silly flavours caused most of the problem in the first place.

The problem is similar to the outrage at alco pops for the alcohol industry. I would have preferred that the electronic cigarette industry had kept it simple and not looked like it was attempting to attract a younger audience. It just feels wrong.

Question is, Does the new regulation have a point, and did the introduction of various whacky flavours and super strength liquid cause the powers that be to take action?

As an independent, reasonably intelligent, and responsible person, I want to retain the right to use open container tanks and bottled e-liquids. This allows me to use larger juice delivery devices than a cigalike. It is more cost efficient to use bottled e-lquid than closed container cigalikes.

I switched to mods in place of cigalikes because I hated the battery life and restricted options for cigalikes.

The vast majority of vapers like wide choices in their flavors. Just because there is more than just tobacco and menthol flavors available to us now, does not mean the e-liquid industry is marketing to kids. Adults like candy and fruit flavors, too. If I only had the option for a tobacco or menthol flavors when I started vaping, I don't know if I would have quit cigarettes for good.

Big Tobacco has jumped into the e-cig market, and thus far has focused on the beginner e-cigarettes. They want to corner this market, so they have been pushing the FDA to ban open container devices and limit flavors to the tobacco industry standards of just tobacco and menthol flavors. Banning open containers and open container e-liquids would destroy the ecig business (except for Big Tobacco's limited offerings).

Just as with alcohol and other potential hazzards, vapers need to be responsible adults. Put e-liquid bottles out of the reach of children.

 

[gandymarsh]

I direct lung inhale on every device I use. It is just a longer process with the low powered/low air flow devices. I don't know why but that's just what worked best for me. I was mouth to lung when I smoked tobacco.

I have a lot of varied devices for different occasions. I like to blow big clouds (well, what I consider big) sometimes and sometimes I don't want to. There is a certain amount of pleasure associated with blowing a big cloud. I can't tell you why but there is.

 

[djsvapour]

Hi

Question is, Does the new regulation have a point, and did the introduction of various whacky flavours and super strength liquid cause the powers that be to take action?

The regulation is way too heavy handed...and a definite NO to your other point.
Many UK shops are already discontinuing holding 18mg as the 'standard' strength as the hardware is so much better. Vype will still be selling 48mg cig-a-likes next year.
All liquids will have to be under 20mg, but in reality, there will almost none on sale anyway, but I guess you already know all this.
It's all very sad (what is going to happen, if it happens), but people showing off their clouds on youtube came after the framework for regulation. We don't now how the EU came up with the 20mg number, but in a way, with better devices, 20mg is not so bad.

 

[daviedog]

An opinion is worth what you pay for it..

 

[chesney]

An opinion is worth what you pay for it..

My opinion is free. Maybe its not worth anything

 

[chesney]

I direct lung inhale on every device I use. It is just a longer process with the low powered/low air flow devices. I don't know why but that's just what worked best for me. I was mouth to lung when I smoked tobacco.

I have a lot of varied devices for different occasions. I like to blow big clouds (well, what I consider big) sometimes and sometimes I don't want to. There is a certain amount of pleasure associated with blowing a big cloud. I can't tell you why but there is.

Most of the tobacco giants in the industry here are heavily into selling refillable devices, can't speak for the american market, so maybe thats different. Refillables are apparently 95% of the market, maybe the stats are wrong. I get what I want from a pre filled and individually sealed cartomiser, its just easier for me, and a 900mah battery lasts me from morning until I go to bed and is charged in time for the next day, so I don't need a longer battery life either.

 

[chesney]

Most of the tobacco giants in the industry here are heavily into selling refillable devices, can't speak for the american market, so maybe thats different. Refillables are apparently 95% of the market, maybe the stats are wrong. I get what I want from a pre filled and individually sealed cartomiser, its just easier for me, and a 900mah battery lasts me from morning until I go to bed and is charged in time for the next day, so I don't need a longer battery life either.

Sorry, that post was supposed to go on a different comment