Does this seem right to you?

[mattiem]

The only way we can appease those that push changes, because of the "Appearance of Marketing to Children", is a plain brown wrapper and sadly even that would not help. The Appearance of Marketing to Children is the latest smoke screen.

I do understand what you are saying. If it wasn't this it would be something else. All they want is the appearance of money in their bank accounts and they are going to find a way to get it.

They will throw us under the bus to get what they want. This is just their latest tactic.

 

[Lessifer]

You Can't Fight against...

Age Limits
Appearance of Marketing to Children
Child Resistant Packaging (CRP)

There just Isn't anyway to do it. If these Issues are Important to Not Have, then your Cause is Lost.

I think your Own Words should be Heeded. Concede these Points and Fight for things that May be Winnable. Or at Least, may have Degrees of Regulations.

Age limits - can be fought if you take away the "could possibly potentially be harmful at some level that we're unaware of" argument. I would not really advocate fighting them directly, maybe someday when people know the truth.
Appearance of Marketing to Children - This can be fought, as unnecessary, since age restricted sales laws are already in place. And it's absurd. And it's actually really important that we fight this because the flavor issue is wrapped up in this one.
CRP - should be made optional, I am as much for elderly and disabled rights as I am for "protecting the children" CRP isn't child proof, mostly it makes it difficult for adults to open easily.

ALL of this is based on the misconception that vaping is somehow highly unsafe, more unsafe than other consumer products that have no restrictions, which has not been shown to be the case.

 

[zoiDman]

...

They will throw us under the bus to get what they want. This is just their latest tactic.

This is Unfortunately True.

So why give those who Want to Dis-Credit us Any Ammunition?

 

[zoiDman]

Age limits - can be fought if you take away the "could possibly potentially be harmful at some level that we're unaware of" argument. I would not really advocate fighting them directly, maybe someday when people know the truth.
Appearance of Marketing to Children - This can be fought, as unnecessary, since age restricted sales laws are already in place. And it's absurd. And it's actually really important that we fight this because the flavor issue is wrapped up in this one.
CRP - should be made optional, I am as much for elderly and disabled rights as I am for "protecting the children" CRP isn't child proof, mostly it makes it difficult for adults to open easily.

ALL of this is based on the misconception that vaping is somehow highly unsafe, more unsafe than other consumer products that have no restrictions, which has not been shown to be the case.

Hey, If you think these things are Important to you, then by all means - Fight them.

As just Don't see them as Winnable Fights.

So I would rather devote My Time and Efforts to things like.

Grandfather Dates
Nicotine mg Levels of at Least 36mg/ml
Reasonable Taxes
No Closed System Requirements
etc.

 

[mattiem]

This is Unfortunately True.

So why give those who Want to Dis-Credit us Any Ammunition?

The way I see it. No matter what we give up or change it won't make a bit of difference. Say we go to plain labels. They will just go on to the next thing. When will it end? How much do we give away to appease them? I say, don't give an inch because they will take the whole ruler and want more.

 

[Lessifer]

In the court of public opinion, voluntarily choosing to change packaging that some people see as marketing to children is admitting that you were, in fact, marketing to children. You can bet your bottom dollar that the news stories would read "Tobacco control activists win battle, Big Tobacco no longer allowed to market to children"

I would rather fight for a truthful non-tobacco product status.

 

[Rabbit Slayer]

This is Unfortunately True.

So why give those who Want to Dis-Credit us Any Ammunition?

Because freedom?

You have to be over 18 to buy juice, how is that marketing to children, they should never be able to see the bottle standing outside the store.... Over the internet, well, maybe we need to ban sales of prepaid CC to those under 21

 

[skoony]

we are not giving any one amunition.
they are inventing amunition.the only
people marketing to children are the
very organazations with their PSA'directly aimed at children and shown when
children are most likely to watch such as
smokefreeca.org.
take alook at there antivapor adds.
thats marketing to children.
show young people looking cool using
PV's.say dont dso this its bad.repeat the
process until your sure the kids think its
really cool. now thats marketing to kids.
regards
mike

 

[bluecat]

we are not giving any one amunition.
they are inventing amunition.the only
people marketing to children are the
very organazations with their PSA'directly aimed at children and shown when
children are most likely to watch such as
smokefreeca.org.
take alook at there antivapor adds.
thats marketing to children.
show young people looking cool using
PV's.say dont dso this its bad.repeat the
process until your sure the kids think its
really cool. now thats marketing to kids.
regards
mike

My kids laugh at my devices. They think I am weird.

I tell my kids I made a mistake growing up. Don't make the same mistakes I made.

 

[DC2]

we are not giving any one amunition.
they are inventing amunition.

I'm going to assume that "protecting the children" goes back to caveman days.
As such, the ammunition is being provided to those who believe in such nonsense.

the only
people marketing to children are the
very organazations with their PSA'directly aimed at children and shown when
children are most likely to watch such as
smokefreeca.org.
take alook at there antivapor adds.
thats marketing to children.
show young people looking cool using
PV's.say dont dso this its bad.repeat the
process until your sure the kids think its
really cool. now thats marketing to kids.

But yeah, this.

 

[zoiDman]

The way I see it. No matter what we give up or change it won't make a bit of difference. Say we go to plain labels. They will just go on to the next thing. When will it end? How much do we give away to appease them? I say, don't give an inch because they will take the whole ruler and want more.

Hey you may be Right.

But I have Found that it is Almost Always better to Work with People, even your Enemies, if you want to get Something out of the Deal.

I don't believe in Fighting for things that are Not Winnable. And that "Give them and Inch" things isn't always as Black and White as some people like to make it Seem.

 

[zoiDman]

In the court of public opinion, voluntarily choosing to change packaging that some people see as marketing to children is admitting that you were, in fact, marketing to children. You can bet your bottom dollar that the news stories would read "Tobacco control activists win battle, Big Tobacco no longer allowed to market to children"

I would rather fight for a truthful non-tobacco product status.

Sure... A Very Few People may believe this.

But what about the MUCH Larger Percentage of People who will think people are Marketing to Children when someone does use Cartoon Characters.

Look for the Largest Group of People and Consider them 1st.

 

[Lessifer]

I prefer truth over furthering lies. If enough people tell a lie, it becomes truth, I won't be a part of that.

The truth is, it is NOT marketing to children, and anyone who says that it is is lying.

 

[440BB]

The bottom line for me is survival of most vaping choices, including liquids. Given the massive and effective campaign against vaping, it is an ugly uphill battle. A quick look at Indiana and Nova Scotia over the last few weeks shows how quickly we can be stepped on like bugs. I would rather we compromise on things like labeling in order to keep bottled liquid available. It may not happen, but vapers fighting over these details keeps us distracted as our choices are shrinking.

 

[DC2]

I prefer truth over furthering lies. If enough people tell a lie, it becomes truth, I won't be a part of that.

The truth is, it is NOT marketing to children, and anyone who says that it is is lying.

Yes, this.

The bottom line for me is survival of most vaping choices, including liquids. Given the massive and effective campaign against vaping, it is an ugly uphill battle. A quick look at Indiana and Nova Scotia over the last few weeks shows how quickly we can be stepped on like bugs. I would rather we compromise on things like labeling in order to keep bottled liquid available. It may not happen, but vapers fighting over these details keeps us distracted as our choices are shrinking.

And also this.

 

[k702]

Since when do adults not like things to look fun or interesting or good? It's the same thing I don't get about people attacking flavoring for "pandering to children" Are we supposed to lose our taste buds and appreciation for good design or cute little cartoon characters entirely once we hit 18? It's all rather crazy.


How about if you have a kid and you see little cartoon characters on something you don't want them messing with you tell them not to mess with it? Where oh where has personal responsibility gone.

 

[440BB]

Since when do adults not like things to look fun or interesting or good? It's the same thing I don't get about people attacking flavoring for "pandering to children" Are we supposed to lose our taste buds and appreciation for good design or cute little cartoon characters entirely once we hit 18? It's all rather crazy.

How about if you have a kid and you see little cartoon characters on something you don't want them messing with you tell them not to mess with it? Where oh where has personal responsibility gone.

The truth about vaping, common sense and parenting have nothing to do with it. It is just a part of an aggressive campaign to demonize vaping. It's working too.

 

[DC2]

I think I'm just going to like almost every post in this thread from now on...
Because almost all of them are correct, regardless of which argument they are making...

[/THREAD]

 

[skoony]

Hey you may be Right.

But I have Found that it is Almost Always better to Work with People, even your Enemies, if you want to get Something out of the Deal.

I don't believe in Fighting for things that are Not Winnable. And that "Give them and Inch" things isn't always as Black and White as some people like to make it Seem.

there is no deal.
the children the end.
we lose.
nice knowing you.
mike

 

[EBates]

There is no such thing as negotiating with the Tobacco Nazis.